[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 507

On May 23 2012 12:39 sc2superfan101 wrote:

take the one hypothetical out of it then:

*Ned supports a rebellion which results in the slaughter of innocent children.

*we are given no indication that he ever attempted to bring the people responsible to justice, and in fact are given every indication that no attempt to do so was ever made.

*he allows his wife to treat his bastard son like crap.

*he executes a man for "breaking an oath". yet he himself has broken many oaths, and knows many oath breakers that he is not executing.

*he does everything in his power to keep the king from putting him into a position where he can address the corruption that is running rampant through the kingdom, but i guess he gets points for finally accepting it.

*once given power, he spends zero time attempting to bring any of the myriad of corrupt people to justice. i suppose we could say that he is doing that by investigating Jon Arryn's death, but at what point does he try to push Robert to arrest the people responsible for the atrocities of the rebellion? or try to get justice for the young boy killed by the Hound on the way to the castle? can't he chew bubblegum and walk at the same time? assign a special investigator to the Jon Arryn case and start pushing for some legislative and executive reform, which was his actual duty to the realm, and he failed utterly.

*as soon as he finds out Cercei is getting boned by Jaime he decides that he has to tell Robert, which will almost certainly cause a war and result in a lot of dead kids and even more atrocities.

now, none of those things speaks very highly of this guy or his sense of right and wrong. if we examine the character in any kind of deep way he slowly reveals himself to be more and more the traditional yes-man and less the honorable lord who wants to do his duty. now, i'm not trying to talk crap on the story or even the character, i'm just explaining why i can't even fathom how people see this guy as honorable at all.


that speaks volumes about the character though, that this could even be considered by him as a legitimate course of action.

On May 23 2012 13:05 Critter wrote:


It's the law, which he follows. Jon knew what he was signing up for when he took the oath. Now to the rest.

Ned supports a rebellion to throw down a king who has already killed countless innocents, including his brother, father, and sister. The Mad King let random voices in his head decide who lived and who died, and to give you an idea of the type of demeted King we're talking about he burned Ned's brother alive while his father was on a choke chain and told if he could reach a sword just out of his reach his son would live. He strangled himself trying to get the sword while his son was burned alive in front of him... for no reason. (all info available on the DVD, so it's not book spoilers) It was Tywin Lannister who eventually killed the Targerean children, for which he was pardoned by Robert (same with Jaime). Ned can't bring them to justice for things they have Royal Pardons for (it wouldn't be in accordence with the law). That Royal Pardon negates most of your points by itself.

He does everything he can to avoid power because he's not some corrupt, power hungry maniac. He's Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, both titles he inheritted but never thought he would (he was the younger brother, and thus brought up to be a soldier, not a Lord).

He decides to tell Robert AND warns to Cersei to run. Tywin wouldn't have risen in rebellion, it'd be suicide. One Kingdom, even the Lannisters, would stand no chance against the combined might of the Realm. Hell, at this point he's losing to North and the Riverlands (who have been mostly negated) alone. What Ned wants to happen is for Cersei to run to Essos so her children can live, even if it is in exile, they'll still be alive and beyond Robert's reach. If he was truly as selfish and pragmatic as you'd have us believe wouldn't he have simply locked them up so Robert could deal with them? No warning, just grabbing the children screaming in the middle of the night (the exact thing he stated he wouldn't do). That would have made sure there was no danger to himself.

As for him being a yes-man, to a point he is. He was raised to be a soldier, to follow orders, to uphold the law, it was only because of his brother's murder that he ended up being Lord of Winterfell.

Lastly, who do you propose he has investigate this besides himself, especially without raising suspicion? Jory got turned aside by a simple Knight, what do you think would have happened with the rest of the information?

Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh, it's not my intention, but I'm having the opposite problem you are in that I can't fathom why you think him such a piece of shit, lol.

EDIT: Damn some of you type fast, lol

On May 23 2012 12:39 sc2superfan101 wrote:
take the one hypothetical out of it then:

*Ned supports a rebellion which results in the slaughter of innocent children.

*we are given no indication that he ever attempted to bring the people responsible to justice, and in fact are given every indication that no attempt to do so was ever made.

*he allows his wife to treat his bastard son like crap.

*he executes a man for "breaking an oath". yet he himself has broken many oaths, and knows many oath breakers that he is not executing.

*he does everything in his power to keep the king from putting him into a position where he can address the corruption that is running rampant through the kingdom, but i guess he gets points for finally accepting it.

*once given power, he spends zero time attempting to bring any of the myriad of corrupt people to justice. i suppose we could say that he is doing that by investigating Jon Arryn's death, but at what point does he try to push Robert to arrest the people responsible for the atrocities of the rebellion? or try to get justice for the young boy killed by the Hound on the way to the castle? can't he chew bubblegum and walk at the same time? assign a special investigator to the Jon Arryn case and start pushing for some legislative and executive reform, which was his actual duty to the realm, and he failed utterly.

*as soon as he finds out Cercei is getting boned by Jaime he decides that he has to tell Robert, which will almost certainly cause a war and result in a lot of dead kids and even more atrocities.

now, none of those things speaks very highly of this guy or his sense of right and wrong. if we examine the character in any kind of deep way he slowly reveals himself to be more and more the traditional yes-man and less the honorable lord who wants to do his duty. now, i'm not trying to talk crap on the story or even the character, i'm just explaining why i can't even fathom how people see this guy as honorable at all.

*Ned supports a rebellion which results in the slaughter of innocent children.

*we are given no indication that he ever attempted to bring the people responsible to justice, and in fact are given every indication that no attempt to do so was ever made.

*he allows his wife to treat his bastard son like crap.

*he executes a man for "breaking an oath". yet he himself has broken many oaths, and knows many oath breakers that he is not executing.

*he does everything in his power to keep the king from putting him into a position where he can address the corruption that is running rampant through the kingdom, but i guess he gets points for finally accepting it.

*once given power, he spends zero time attempting to bring any of the myriad of corrupt people to justice. i suppose we could say that he is doing that by investigating Jon Arryn's death, but at what point does he try to push Robert to arrest the people responsible for the atrocities of the rebellion? or try to get justice for the young boy killed by the Hound on the way to the castle? can't he chew bubblegum and walk at the same time? assign a special investigator to the Jon Arryn case and start pushing for some legislative and executive reform, which was his actual duty to the realm, and he failed utterly.

*as soon as he finds out Cercei is getting boned by Jaime he decides that he has to tell Robert, which will almost certainly cause a war and result in a lot of dead kids and even more atrocities.

On May 23 2012 13:03 MajuGarzett wrote:

I think that Cersei had offered both Stark girls for the return of Jaime. I do agree it was dumb though.

On May 23 2012 15:28 Euronyme wrote:


Well there's that, but remember that they all came to the conclusion that he'd get killed if he stayed at the camp. So they either do this switch, or get nothing from him.
As the Starks don't really need to win either, but just stalemate it enough for them to get the North, they probably don't want to piss off the Lanisters more than necessary.

On May 23 2012 15:28 Euronyme wrote:


Well there's that, but remember that they all came to the conclusion that he'd get killed if he stayed at the camp. So they either do this switch, or get nothing from him.
As the Starks don't really need to win either, but just stalemate it enough for them to get the North, they probably don't want to piss off the Lanisters more than necessary.

let a two dealing liar who already betrayed your husband and crippled your son talk you into giving up the greatest soldier on the bad guy side for 2 girls who are useless.

On May 23 2012 17:46 Euronyme wrote:
Could anyone explain to me what happened in Winterfel really?
I mean the old guy went out with 200 men to recapture the other place that Theoden (or whatever his name was) captured with his 20 pirates.
Then Theoden went on to capture Winterfel really quick.
I understand that far, but what happened with the 200 men? The old guy got captured and hacked to pieces on the town square, but what about the army he brought with him?

On May 23 2012 16:26 Kiett wrote:
wow. way too many walls of text here :|

so excited for next week's episode. this one was a little dull, but only because the previous ones had set the standard so high.