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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 07 2012 16:53 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 16:51 Unholy_Prince wrote:On May 07 2012 16:50 Inori wrote:
Sorry if this was mentioned before, but what's really really bothering me is why doesn't Arya just ask for Tyvin to be killed? She's 8 years old, and kind of respects him. But he's at a fucking war with her house, killing her bannermen, threatening to kill her family, etc etc? When I was 8 years old I was stupid, but not retarded stupid. Plus she's clearly more intelligent than your average 8 y/o..
It's retarded for an eight year old to not make the most strategically sound use of a wish-granting assassin?
-.-
Killing Tywin wouldn't necessarily end the war between the Lannisters and Starks; all the bannermen still remain, there's still Tyrion and Cersei, and Joffrey is king, after all. But without Tywin the Lannisters would of of course be much weaker, and Robb would be in a safer position.
But so far as Arya has seen, Tywin is a fairly decent guy -- he arrived at Harrenhal, stopped the torture, takes her as a servant which grants her some level of protection. Compare that to the people she's seen murder and torture her father and others around her, and yeah, I don't think it's so difficult to understand why she hasn't asked for Tywin to be killed (although there is one name remaining). Cersei, Joffrey, the Tickler, Lorch, Ilyn Payne (I think he's in her prayer too, right?). There are people much more horrible than Tywin, if not as powerful and strategically important.
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On May 07 2012 14:51 p4NDemik wrote:
I think its plausible a small, well armed group of soldiers can storm a defenseless town and take control, especially when they have a brutal, shocking, display of force in beheading the master at arms, and hold the highborn lords hostage. It was shown to be done under the veil of darkness (Bran was sleeping and it was clearly the middle of the night). They scale the walls, which is easily possible, then storm the royal quarters, killing who they need to silently, and that's that.
They arent well armed soldiers! They are pirates! Who had to park their boat somewhere, and then march a hundred miles in land, and scale a wall, and then scale into the palace wall, and not be caught while the walls they are crawling are the capital of a kingdom at war! Winterfell already had one assassin break in and almost kill Bran and you are telling me the Stars were all "oh cool, well that was when our city was full of guards. Now that our city is totally devoid of troops we will have even less security for the prince"
Its just annoying. If they wanted to just do the "well this happened" they could have just had a raven arribe at Robb's that says something like 'palace fallen, help."
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On May 07 2012 16:55 sevia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 16:50 Inori wrote:
Sorry if this was mentioned before, but what's really really bothering me is why doesn't Arya just ask for Tyvin to be killed? You can see she sort of respects him. Killing Tywin wouldn't win the war outright, so when she's presented the option of killing Joffrey, or Cersei, or numerous other figures she includes in her 'prayer'... I think it makes sense for her to not waste her final request on Tywin.
Also, what does SHE really know about Jaqen anyway? Some random dude she rescued said he'd kill three people for her... She could request Cersei or Tywin or Joffery, but how does she know he'd actually be able to do it? If she keeps to killing people nobody cares about, but have wronged her, she knows he'll be able to do it...
At least that's how I see it anyway...
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Well not to mention it is VITAL that she didn't let that dude get back to tell Tywin because then she would be majorly fucked as she basically reveals herself as a spy/thief/whatever, using one of her 3 'wishes' to ensure she keeps what is a damn useful position is so very very worth it
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I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something?
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On May 07 2012 17:18 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 17:04 dormer wrote:On May 07 2012 16:53 Inori wrote:On May 07 2012 16:51 Unholy_Prince wrote:On May 07 2012 16:50 Inori wrote:
Sorry if this was mentioned before, but what's really really bothering me is why doesn't Arya just ask for Tyvin to be killed? She's 8 years old, and kind of respects him. But he's at a fucking war with her house, killing her bannermen, threatening to kill her family, etc etc? When I was 8 years old I was stupid, but not retarded stupid. Plus she's clearly more intelligent than your average 8 y/o.. It's retarded for an eight year old to not make the most strategically sound use of a wish-granting assassin? -.-. Are you serious? There's nothing to strategize about in this situation. 1.) My family is threatened by a guy 2.) Another guy offers to kill anybody I name 3.) ???? Yes, this will not end the war. Yes, it's not that simple and blah blah. That's exactly the things 8 year old wouldn't think about. 8 year old would exactly assume it's as simple as killing the one giving most orders. Don't think I don't understand all the subtle parts like respect, having protection, being afraid, etc etc. There's a clear difference between a situation where one might hesitate and where the most obvious choice is clear as a day.
You know nothing (jon snow).
Have you seen how tywin has treated her? He compliments her over people he deals with. He is mild mannered to her, and hasn't done any grisly shit or anything to her. She has a place to stay, a place of information, and is protected by tywin essentially. It is a position of advantage.
Tywin isn't the biggest enemy to arya. She continually hears how the young wolf is defeating armies. Meanwhile, her life/her friends lives at particular instances have been fucked over by people really you don't want to see again. And the 2nd kill was a necessity.
Who knows, she might use the third kill on Tywin? Just how much of the show have you seen? Coupled with the fact that she has not seen Tywin command an army and butcher down Starks, and the fact that she is a young girl, no leeway?
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It's so silly how they went all Dawn of the Dead on that poor priest hahaha. xD
Every second beyond the wall is such a waste of time. At this point I don't care at all about white walkers, the king beyond the wall, the nights watch...
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On May 07 2012 17:13 sheaRZerg wrote:
I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something? maybe she was just trying to get some
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On May 07 2012 17:05 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 14:51 p4NDemik wrote:
I think its plausible a small, well armed group of soldiers can storm a defenseless town and take control, especially when they have a brutal, shocking, display of force in beheading the master at arms, and hold the highborn lords hostage. It was shown to be done under the veil of darkness (Bran was sleeping and it was clearly the middle of the night). They scale the walls, which is easily possible, then storm the royal quarters, killing who they need to silently, and that's that. They arent well armed soldiers! They are pirates! Who had to park their boat somewhere, and then march a hundred miles in land, and scale a wall, and then scale into the palace wall, and not be caught while the walls they are crawling are the capital of a kingdom at war! Winterfell already had one assassin break in and almost kill Bran and you are telling me the Stars were all "oh cool, well that was when our city was full of guards. Now that our city is totally devoid of troops we will have even less security for the prince" Its just annoying. If they wanted to just do the "well this happened" they could have just had a raven arribe at Robb's that says something like 'palace fallen, help."
The whole point is to develop Theon's character more since his change of loyalty. In fact they did exactly what you said...they didn't show anything of the actual takeover. The scene simply started with the castle under the control of the Iron Islanders. Winterfell wasn't in need of a large garrison (or so they thought) since Robb and his bannermen were in the South occupying the Lannister armies. The assassination attempt was before Bran was even a prince...it was totally unrelated. The reason why there were no troops there was due to the fact that Asha's (Yara) attack drew Ser Rodrik and the remaining troops to Torrhen's Square. Bran had guards around until that point...in fact Rodrik Cassel thought the attack would be taken care of quickly so the men that went to fight wouldn't be gone long. Bran isn't the one with a huge target on his head yet...he is a prince but the king is still alive. Theon hit Winterfell at just the wrong time but it makes sense since an unexpected assault on the North had just begun. Pike wasn't accounted for so the Greyjoy invasion was easy pickings. What wouldn't make sense is if there were somehow a ton of troops still at home when huge battles were being fought with by Robb.
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On May 07 2012 17:26 chocopaw wrote:
It's so silly how they went all Dawn of the Dead on that poor priest hahaha. xD
Every second beyond the wall is such a waste of time. At this point I don't care at all about white walkers, the king beyond the wall, the nights watch...
 That's the part I want to see the most of...I don't feel like they've shown enough honestly. To each his own I guess.
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On May 07 2012 17:37 Grohg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 17:26 chocopaw wrote:
It's so silly how they went all Dawn of the Dead on that poor priest hahaha. xD
Every second beyond the wall is such a waste of time. At this point I don't care at all about white walkers, the king beyond the wall, the nights watch... That's the part I want to see the most of...I don't feel like they've shown enough honestly. To each his own I guess.
Then enlighten me why I should care.  Don't get me wrong, in the long run I want to know what's going on with the others, but right now every single other storyline seems far, far more interesting to me. Add some awkward acting and completely obvious story elements (did anybody think for just a second Jon was going to execute her?) to that and you have the reasons why I'm inclined to just skip those scenes.
Speaking of executions, who thinks he will be able to behead a grown man with a standard long sword? The scene with Ser Roderick was very well done, I liked how even Theon's advisor grimaced on watching it, but I'm pretty sure it won't work as long as you dont have a giant sword like Ice or at least aren't the Hound/Mountain.
Just do it like the Romans in Gladiator ffs.^^
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On May 07 2012 17:13 sheaRZerg wrote:
I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something?
More tits. I mean, I love watching this show too, but it's not one you should dig into too deeply. A lot of things don't make sense strictly speaking.
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On May 07 2012 17:05 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 14:51 p4NDemik wrote:
I think its plausible a small, well armed group of soldiers can storm a defenseless town and take control, especially when they have a brutal, shocking, display of force in beheading the master at arms, and hold the highborn lords hostage. It was shown to be done under the veil of darkness (Bran was sleeping and it was clearly the middle of the night). They scale the walls, which is easily possible, then storm the royal quarters, killing who they need to silently, and that's that. They arent well armed soldiers! They are pirates! Who had to park their boat somewhere, and then march a hundred miles in land, and scale a wall, and then scale into the palace wall, and not be caught while the walls they are crawling are the capital of a kingdom at war! Winterfell already had one assassin break in and almost kill Bran and you are telling me the Stars were all "oh cool, well that was when our city was full of guards. Now that our city is totally devoid of troops we will have even less security for the prince" Its just annoying. If they wanted to just do the "well this happened" they could have just had a raven arribe at Robb's that says something like 'palace fallen, help."
They marched 40 leagues, that is what it said in the show Torren Square is from Winterfell. Also Theon lived there for 13+ years, I am sure he knows the area as well as people that live there. He also knows Winterfell defenses very well. He would know where the wall is weaker and where they can climb more easily.
Winterfell is not a city, just a castle. And that assassin didn't break in, he set up a diversion with the fire and walked in. And Bran sent all guards to fight Iron men at Torren Square.
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United States7166 Posts
arya's first priority if you haven't figured it out yet by the i dunno tens of examples they've had this season is her own immediate survival. she's not only smart enough to realize how important tywin is right now in terms of her survival, but also she's gaining a ton of intel of the goings of the war/westeros/her family just by being his cupbearer that could become very useful to her later. she also knows that tywin and the lannisters are clearly losing the war, her brother's winning, and tywin's surrounded by idiots in his council. why would she kill tywin? she more intelligently waits until she really needs to use the deaths like she did tonight. btw the first kill was i think her not even believing he'd do it..jaqen is basically the strangest thing she's probably ever encountered or heard of.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On May 07 2012 17:13 sheaRZerg wrote:
I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something?
Presumably many of the Winterfell captives are currently being guarded/watched when not about their day to day business.
Going to see Theon gave her a reason to be around the castle, sleeping with him meant he'd dismiss his guards so it was only the two of them, and then sneaking out in the middle of the night gave her the best chance to avoid notice until the morning since guards thought she was with Theon and there was a reason for her to not be confined to wherever she's supposed to have been.
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United States7166 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:00 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 17:13 sheaRZerg wrote:
I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something? More tits. I mean, I love watching this show too, but it's not one you should dig into too deeply. A lot of things don't make sense strictly speaking.
um, without sleeping with theon how else is she going to sneak away from whoever was supposed to be watching her? in this case theon
edit: and what he ^ said
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On May 07 2012 17:13 sheaRZerg wrote:
I am confused as to why Osha thought it necessary to first sleep with Theon before making a run for it with Bran and company. I mean she still has to pull some moves to get past the guard and I doubt Theon was going to be personally keeping watch. Having run off with his most important captive, it isnt like his promise to free her from servitude is going to protect her from being killed if they are captured. Am I missing something?
Maybe he had the key to Bran room? Maybe she would be locked up somewhere during night and she would not be able to get out?
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On May 07 2012 17:09 Lyter wrote:
Well not to mention it is VITAL that she didn't let that dude get back to tell Tywin because then she would be majorly fucked as she basically reveals herself as a spy/thief/whatever, using one of her 3 'wishes' to ensure she keeps what is a damn useful position is so very very worth it
Or she could have said kill Tywin and that other guy, because how would she know that the assassin could teleport and kill someone
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Because killing Tywin is dumb as shit right now maybe? He dies, and she probably ends up on the street starving like everyone else
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EPT
