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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 24 2016 16:22 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i cant believe all these people getting annoyed by the "time travelling". Its like they never read any fantasy before and suddenly this is a complete bullshit in the whole story. In the world where you have magic, dragons, walking dead and Gods (plural), and also (attention!) prophecies, prophets and messiahs, it is really OK to have events cross-linked in different times.
This argument pop up in every discussion about a fantasy show. Just because a world is fictional and contains elements which don't exist in the real world, does not mean that world can't still be logically consistent. Just because there is a dragon to be found in a story does not mean all sense of logic out the window.
I'm not really arguing for or against the time travel aspect, I'm just tired of seeing this nonsensical argument pop up all the time.
I've seen the same argument being used when the dual wielding discussion was going on. The existance of blood magic or gods or skeletons does not justify a character wielding two huge swords, because swordfighting in GoT is clearly comparable to swordfighting in real life where wielding two huge swords was simply never done because it did not work.
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On May 24 2016 16:36 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 16:22 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i cant believe all these people getting annoyed by the "time travelling". Its like they never read any fantasy before and suddenly this is a complete bullshit in the whole story. In the world where you have magic, dragons, walking dead and Gods (plural), and also (attention!) prophecies, prophets and messiahs, it is really OK to have events cross-linked in different times. This argument pop up in every discussion about a fantasy show. Just because a world is fictional and contains elements which don't exist in the real world, does not mean that world can't still be logically consistent. Just because there is a dragon to be found in a story does not mean all sense of logic out the window. I'm not really arguing for or against the time travel aspect, I'm just tired of seeing this nonsensical argument pop up all the time. I've seen the same argument being used when the dual wielding discussion was going on. The existance of blood magic or gods or skeletons does not justify a character wielding two huge swords, because swordfighting in GoT is clearly comparable to swordfighting in real life where wielding two huge swords was simply never done because it did not work.
i dont think my argument was "there are dragons so dont question time issues". If there is a loophole/bad story regarding the time that is indeed a problem. What is ridiculous is that people getting instantly annoyed not because of the bad writing, but because suddenly there is a "time travel" (which clear is not a time travel) in a serious show and by definition "time travel" is just bad/lazy writing. WTF.
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korean I think is "문좀 잡아줘 " haha I dont know, correct me if I'm wrong
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On May 24 2016 16:59 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 16:36 solidbebe wrote:On May 24 2016 16:22 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i cant believe all these people getting annoyed by the "time travelling". Its like they never read any fantasy before and suddenly this is a complete bullshit in the whole story. In the world where you have magic, dragons, walking dead and Gods (plural), and also (attention!) prophecies, prophets and messiahs, it is really OK to have events cross-linked in different times. This argument pop up in every discussion about a fantasy show. Just because a world is fictional and contains elements which don't exist in the real world, does not mean that world can't still be logically consistent. Just because there is a dragon to be found in a story does not mean all sense of logic out the window. I'm not really arguing for or against the time travel aspect, I'm just tired of seeing this nonsensical argument pop up all the time. I've seen the same argument being used when the dual wielding discussion was going on. The existance of blood magic or gods or skeletons does not justify a character wielding two huge swords, because swordfighting in GoT is clearly comparable to swordfighting in real life where wielding two huge swords was simply never done because it did not work. i dont think my argument was "there are dragons so dont question time issues". If there is a loophole/bad story regarding the time that is indeed a problem. What is ridiculous is that people getting instantly annoyed not because of the bad writing, but because suddenly there is a "time travel" (which clear is not a time travel) in a serious show and by definition "time travel" is just bad/lazy writing. WTF.
That's a fine point. I guess Plansix was really the one parading the "there's magic so nothing can make sense anyway" argument.
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On May 24 2016 17:45 shin_toss wrote:
korean I think is "문좀 잡아줘 " haha I dont know, correct me if I'm wrong
I got something similar but got corrected. Apparently 문 잡고 그대로 있어 is pretty close.
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On May 24 2016 16:36 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 16:22 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i cant believe all these people getting annoyed by the "time travelling". Its like they never read any fantasy before and suddenly this is a complete bullshit in the whole story. In the world where you have magic, dragons, walking dead and Gods (plural), and also (attention!) prophecies, prophets and messiahs, it is really OK to have events cross-linked in different times. This argument pop up in every discussion about a fantasy show. Just because a world is fictional and contains elements which don't exist in the real world, does not mean that world can't still be logically consistent. Just because there is a dragon to be found in a story does not mean all sense of logic out the window. I'm not really arguing for or against the time travel aspect, I'm just tired of seeing this nonsensical argument pop up all the time. I've seen the same argument being used when the dual wielding discussion was going on. The existance of blood magic or gods or skeletons does not justify a character wielding two huge swords, because swordfighting in GoT is clearly comparable to swordfighting in real life where wielding two huge swords was simply never done because it did not work.
This is indeed a bad argument that is brought up often. Though I understand the basis behind it. GoT Tries to be realistic in so many aspects so when Fantasy elements are introduced people often try to dissect them to what we could understand as 'realistic'.
Not saying it's right or wrong, honestly as long as it's not just shit writing I don't care either way. But I can see where people are coming from when they bring up these arguments.
The only time I'd use such an argument is say in the case of the Sand snakes teleporting, sure in a world where dragons exist, teleporting is possible but with no prior introduction and explanation it's just shit writing. Stuff like that bothers me, but for being a fantasy series I do think a lot of people try to bring to much of our worlds science and reality into the fictional world just to bash it.
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On May 24 2016 18:14 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 16:36 solidbebe wrote:On May 24 2016 16:22 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i cant believe all these people getting annoyed by the "time travelling". Its like they never read any fantasy before and suddenly this is a complete bullshit in the whole story. In the world where you have magic, dragons, walking dead and Gods (plural), and also (attention!) prophecies, prophets and messiahs, it is really OK to have events cross-linked in different times. This argument pop up in every discussion about a fantasy show. Just because a world is fictional and contains elements which don't exist in the real world, does not mean that world can't still be logically consistent. Just because there is a dragon to be found in a story does not mean all sense of logic out the window. I'm not really arguing for or against the time travel aspect, I'm just tired of seeing this nonsensical argument pop up all the time. I've seen the same argument being used when the dual wielding discussion was going on. The existance of blood magic or gods or skeletons does not justify a character wielding two huge swords, because swordfighting in GoT is clearly comparable to swordfighting in real life where wielding two huge swords was simply never done because it did not work. The only time I'd use such an argument is say in the case of the Sand snakes teleporting, sure in a world where dragons exist, teleporting is possible but with no prior introduction and explanation it's just shit writing. Stuff like that bothers me, but for being a fantasy series I do think a lot of people try to bring to much of our worlds science and reality into the fictional world just to bash it.
This stuff still?
They never teleported. They simply took their own boat or travelled to KL across land. It's not that hard to grasp lol.
When Trystane dies on the boat, a raven has already travelled all the way from KL to Dorne to report the news to prince Doran about Myrcella. So we can assume it has been docked there for a while. Days/weeks, we don't know.
Plenty of time for the 2 sand snake assassins to make their way to KL come on. For all you know they left for KL 5 minutes after Jaime's boat left.
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Germany25658 Posts
I just want the next episode to start with Bran getting horribly murdered on his shitty little sledge.
They have like a 50 meter headstart and are running away from thousands of zombies that do not get tired in the middle of a snowstorm. Unless they find some reindeer to pull their santa sledge, theyre fucked 
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How does Petyr Baelish move so fast from one part of the world to another?
He was in the Eyrie last episode, now he's near the wall?
That's ... 2000 km roughly? Is he the most powerful sorcerer known to man?
Do the writers just not take into account the fucking scaling of the map and just write what's convenient for them?
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On May 24 2016 19:01 KadaverBB wrote:I just want the next episode to start with Bran getting horribly murdered on his shitty little sledge. They have like a 50 meter headstart and are running away from thousands of zombies that do not get tired in the middle of a snowstorm. Unless they find some reindeer to pull their santa sledge, theyre fucked
I'd be fine with them just dieing but thats unlikely :p
I would bet on them getting rescued by someone we think is dead like Benjin Stark who is obviously something more than just a human now. I dont see them just hiding as a viable way to escapr and i hope the show writers dont make them just hide in the snow and that works..
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I'm expecting some cop-out escape like tumbling down some slope and getting buried in the snow. Who cares that he has an arm mark which is apparently some sort of homing beacon.
Another option is warging into some giant animal (Tolkien's eagles would work) and carrying them away to safety.
I'll be shocked if they make the escape even half-way believable.
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Germany25658 Posts
On May 24 2016 19:08 Uldridge wrote:
How does Petyr Baelish move so fast from one part of the world to another?
He was in the Eyrie last episode, now he's near the wall?
That's ... 2000 km roughly? Is he the most powerful sorcerer known to man?
Do the writers just not take into account the fucking scaling of the map and just write what's convenient for them?
I've accepted that it is hard to measure the passage of the time in the show and that they are taking liberties as to where the characters are. It's not great, but it is almost unavoidable since the world is just too fucking big.
EDIT: Also, Sam has already made quite the magical escape at the beginning of season 3. He was literally 5 feet away from a White Walker and then he just walked away fine
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On May 24 2016 19:36 KadaverBB wrote:
I've accepted that it is hard to measure the passage of the time in the show and that they are taking liberties as to where the characters are. It's not great, but it is almost unavoidable since the world is just too fucking big.
It's not like Sansa has been at the wall for months. I can't really recall any other event where someone travelled this fast. I even think I remember in season 1 when Jon was sent to the wall they explained how far it was from Winterfell (or I'm mixing up books and television here).
So, to reiterate, mostly I'm not bothered by these inconveniences of travel, since they've portrayed it fairly well in the series so far (at least hasn't broken my suspension of disbelief), but this example was completely pushing it.
The only explanation I can maybe think of to make it plausible is that HBO GoT world is different from the literary one.
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Why are you guys obsessed with the time travel thing? It can simply be predestination - Hodor was meant to save Bran. Bran simply saw a glimpse of the past, without being able to change it. The scenario changes a lot if you can travel back in time and change it - but this does not look like the case, so why all the talk about paradoxes etc?
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On May 24 2016 20:12 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 19:36 KadaverBB wrote:
I've accepted that it is hard to measure the passage of the time in the show and that they are taking liberties as to where the characters are. It's not great, but it is almost unavoidable since the world is just too fucking big. It's not like Sansa has been at the wall for months. I can't really recall any other event where someone travelled this fast. I even think I remember in season 1 when Jon was sent to the wall they explained how far it was from Winterfell (or I'm mixing up books and television here). So, to reiterate, mostly I'm not bothered by these inconveniences of travel, since they've portrayed it fairly well in the series so far (at least hasn't broken my suspension of disbelief), but this example was completely pushing it. The only explanation I can maybe think of to make it plausible is that HBO GoT world is different from the literary one.
A much simpler explanation would be that the events/scenes in the show are not chronological.
Perhaps Littlefinger's appearence in the Vale, which we see in Episode 4, happened around the same time as the events in Episode 1? The book chapters aren't chronological either.
Showing Littlefinger in the Vale for Episode 1, and then not showing him again until Episode 5 because he is travelling, isn't ideal.
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I'm already convinced the world is very deterministic in the sense that everything that's supposed to happen will happen and people (the priestesses etc) are just trying to understand and interpret that 'fate of the world'.
What if the old man in the trees was Bran? Could he be?
If Hodor was influenced by an event that happens in the future, that means that more people can be influenced aswell, which makes one wonder, can someone actively influence that person? (Bran) Or does the influence not matter at all, since the world is determinstic in nature?
Is the deterministic nature of the world governed by something?
On May 24 2016 20:18 Laurens wrote:
A much simpler explanation would be that the events/scenes in the show are not chronological.
Perhaps Littlefinger's appearence in the Vale, which we see in Episode 4, happened around the same time as the events in Episode 1? The book chapters aren't chronological either.
Showing Littlefinger in the Vale for Episode 1, and then not showing him again until Episode 5 because he is travelling, isn't ideal. Yeah that's much more simple, but it's less elegant to pull this off on screen than on paper.
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On May 24 2016 20:23 Uldridge wrote:
I'm already convinced the world is very deterministic in the sense that everything that's supposed to happen will happen and people (the priestesses etc) are just trying to understand and interpret that 'fate of the world'.
What if the old man in the trees was Bran? Could he be?
If Hodor was influenced by an event that happens in the future, that means that more people can be influenced aswell, which makes one wonder, can someone actively influence that person? (Bran) Or does the influence not matter at all, since the world is determinstic in nature?
Is the deterministic nature of the world governed by something?
i do not think Hodor was influenced. It was simply bound to be this way. There seems to be a strange deterministic component, as you said - fate, luck, destiny
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On May 24 2016 20:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 20:23 Uldridge wrote:
I'm already convinced the world is very deterministic in the sense that everything that's supposed to happen will happen and people (the priestesses etc) are just trying to understand and interpret that 'fate of the world'.
What if the old man in the trees was Bran? Could he be?
If Hodor was influenced by an event that happens in the future, that means that more people can be influenced aswell, which makes one wonder, can someone actively influence that person? (Bran) Or does the influence not matter at all, since the world is determinstic in nature?
Is the deterministic nature of the world governed by something?
i do not think Hodor was influenced. It was simply bound to be this way. There seems to be a strange deterministic component, as you said - fate, luck, destiny
Without delving into the inner workings of Bran’s power, I think that any attempt to alter the past will just result in the current present. That anything he tries to do in the past already happened so for his own emotional well being, he is better off doing nothing.
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the thing for me is: GoT gave of the vibe of "history fiction fantasy"
so many characters, plots and everyone playing the game of thrones, while a zombie army in the north (now known as a weapon gone rogue) seek to battle with dragons and or the red god (who gives of quite demonic vibes) while the little humans mostly still have to realize the insignificance of their power struggles and search for a way to survive.
now enter time-warging! no matter how it exactly works (nonlinear time / predestined stuff) we now have a tool that makes all the excessive history fiction part useless, why have a billion characters? it is known what will happen, and if the author messes up, he can introduce a beforehand hidden armory of valyrian steel weapons, or have a giant dragon sleeping below the wall, waiting for the white walkers to destroy them...
if you dont plan on massively tying time- and planetravel into your story, you should best avoid it entirely.
edit: and since this skill was introduced as an accident and not by accident, i fear it will get used more.
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I am pretty sure it will be used for some, if not all of the following:
• To find out who Jon Snows mother is, which will likely be the mad king.
• To find the key piece of evidence that Ed or whoever else knew about it left behind(maybe the dude to stabbed twin sword man in the back) that proves who Jon is.
• Tell Jon or someone close to Jon. Use knowledge to rally kingdoms behind Jon and Danny(who will have arrived by this point, and maybe the Wall falls) to fight zombie horde. Which they can only fight once because any losses they take will only add to the horde.
Because that wall is coming down, maybe at the end of this season. And then whoever is left standing after the fight for the throne are all going to have to cut deals to work together.
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