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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 27 2015 17:43 Sejanus wrote:Show nested quote +
And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith.
I don't remember them being in that scene. Cersei was alone with High Sparrow. In some other scenes King personally witholded kings guard. Tomen is indecisive and a pushover.
Cersei isn't the queen...
The queen and her brother were taken with Tommen and the kings guard right there. They wouldn't move without an order, and Tommen choked.
Interested to see what Tommen does. Whose even next in line if he dies? Does it go back to Stannis?
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United States41958 Posts
On May 28 2015 03:05 Gorsameth wrote:
It is entirely possible for a King to go against religion but he needs support to do it and I doubt Tommen would get the support from other houses other then the Tyrells to go against the gods. And as shown in the scene on the steps of the Sept he wont have the support of the common people.
Catherine of Aragon was hugely popular with the common people. Didn't change a thing. Popular unrest without leadership, resources or foreign backing won't get you far.
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On May 28 2015 03:44 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 17:43 Sejanus wrote:
And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith.
I don't remember them being in that scene. Cersei was alone with High Sparrow. In some other scenes King personally witholded kings guard. Tomen is indecisive and a pushover. Cersei isn't the queen... The queen and her brother were taken with Tommen and the kings guard right there. They wouldn't move without an order, and Tommen choked. Interested to see what Tommen does. Whose even next in line if he dies? Does it go back to Stannis?
depends on how children/girls are handled. Either to Myrcella or Stannis
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Imo, the whole Faith Militant situation is a very poor portrayal of quite a realistic situation. If you think on it, it makes sense, but the show completely omits any kind of display of power of the faith of the seven. You come to realize that it would never end up this way had the church not had overwhelming public support (especially after destroying brothels and other places for rich men), but this support is never actually shown. The high septon speaks directly to the king, he must be a very powerful man, but alas, it is never shown how or why. Instead of filming huge crowds in religious ecstasy on a square (which, judging from the action on screen, happens somewhere) they show us mad men carving septagrams on their forehead. Poor script.
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On May 28 2015 02:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 02:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 17:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 27 2015 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
Also, if Danaeris has demanded in her contract that they don't show her boobs, please don't put her in scenes where she has to continuously cover them in an extremely obvious way, as that's annoyingly fourth wall breaking in this series.
I did enjoy Jorah showing his fighting skills so all is not lost. Also they didn't kill Bronn which makes me very happy. Theon being a cowardly mutt was also a good choice, he's not a hero type. The Tyrell army might be the one they killed Stannis with, but it's one thing to fight off an invading army, and another to crush a popular revolt. Remember Varys's example to Tyrion about a sellsword standing between a rich man, a king and a priest where each one wants the other two dead? Power resides wherever people think it does. And in King's Landing, the power looks like it's in the hands of the priests, and that's where all the people are slowly migrating to. If the Tyrells go in to purge King's Landing, you could see a large fraction of the army defect and go after their old commanders instead. Royalty only have power because people think they do. Joffrey only had power because Tywin was around to keep it there. If he was still around right now to kickstart the holocaust, you'd see just how fast the Lannisters could get booted out of the Red Keep. Well I agree that a peoples revolt can topple kings, but there's no hints of a peoples revolt in the series... It's Cersei giving power to religious fanatics. The populous in king's landing doesn't strike me as very pious and we've not seen any mention of rioting. It's like Obama giving the jehova's witnesses guns and the power to invoke their laws of sin upon other americans. Not a lot of people would be happy with that. A band of crazies should be crushed by any house of power. Exactly because power resides where people think it does is why Tyrells should show a hefty reaction to this insult and degradation. If they do nothing their name is worth nothing. And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith. On May 27 2015 10:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
2) These are very unstable times with the aftermath of a war, the loss of good leadership, financial crisis and the previous King already pissing everyone off. Do they really want to rock the boat by attacking the faith that placates the masses? Especially considering the High Sparrow is apparently very popular among the low-borns. Then there's the issue of those who still believe Tommen is a product of incest, casting further doubt on the legitimacy of the crown in the first place. Sounds like a good way to provoke a riot. But how much legitimacy is left if you allow the queen to get thrown into a dungeon in rags, before a trial has even taken place. These sparrows have already grabbed power from you, why would you care about a risk of revolt if the alternative is surrendering. I wouldn't say it's completely like the Obama scenario. If religion in King's Landing is anything like medieval religion, people are going to take it more seriously than secular Americans would take a Jehovah's Witness police. Maybe closer to what we saw in Egypt during the Arab Spring. And just like the army later took control there, we could see something similar in the show. Let's look at Henry VIII then. A king who got into an argument with the Pope and simply declared that there was a new state religion which he was the Pope of. Obviously there were a number of loyalists who held out, and indeed there was conflict, conspiracy and prejudice for hundreds of years, but the people who mattered sided with the King and the Catholic church never stood a chance.
Sure, but let's remember Henry VIII was the exception, not the rule. Most medieval rulers who challenged the church got various degrees of bitchslapped. Sure, the church didn't have total power, and most of its agenda items were roundly ignored, but outright apostasy or challenge to authority tended to go poorly: Emperor Henry V or King Henry II or King John are far more reasonable examples.
But the Sparrows aren't akin to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is equivalent to the institutional Septs, with the High Septon as the Pope. They're more like Waldensians or Hussites or Cathars; heretics trying to reform the church and fight for the common people by decrying the sins of the upper classes. They will probably meet the same end.
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Oh i fully expect the sparrows to color the streets of Kings landing red. The question is the damage they will do before they are dead.
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Come on Tommen balls up and save your wife. Not your mother, fuck that bitch.
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Maybe he is more the Sansa type... So he will need 5 seasons from now and then still do nothing...
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On May 28 2015 05:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Come on Tommen balls up and save your wife. Not your mother, fuck that bitch.
Any open action against the sparrows risks them killing their captives.
If he was going to go for open agression he had to do it at the trial when they tried to take Loras and Margery. He had a chance to just let the kings guard kill them all and be able to do so without the commoners knowing until after the fact.
My money is on Orella saving the day with some covered action.
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On May 28 2015 05:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Not your mother, fuck that bitch.
Wait should we interpret this as fucking her the lannister way?
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On May 28 2015 05:29 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 02:54 KwarK wrote:On May 28 2015 02:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 17:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 27 2015 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
Also, if Danaeris has demanded in her contract that they don't show her boobs, please don't put her in scenes where she has to continuously cover them in an extremely obvious way, as that's annoyingly fourth wall breaking in this series.
I did enjoy Jorah showing his fighting skills so all is not lost. Also they didn't kill Bronn which makes me very happy. Theon being a cowardly mutt was also a good choice, he's not a hero type. The Tyrell army might be the one they killed Stannis with, but it's one thing to fight off an invading army, and another to crush a popular revolt. Remember Varys's example to Tyrion about a sellsword standing between a rich man, a king and a priest where each one wants the other two dead? Power resides wherever people think it does. And in King's Landing, the power looks like it's in the hands of the priests, and that's where all the people are slowly migrating to. If the Tyrells go in to purge King's Landing, you could see a large fraction of the army defect and go after their old commanders instead. Royalty only have power because people think they do. Joffrey only had power because Tywin was around to keep it there. If he was still around right now to kickstart the holocaust, you'd see just how fast the Lannisters could get booted out of the Red Keep. Well I agree that a peoples revolt can topple kings, but there's no hints of a peoples revolt in the series... It's Cersei giving power to religious fanatics. The populous in king's landing doesn't strike me as very pious and we've not seen any mention of rioting. It's like Obama giving the jehova's witnesses guns and the power to invoke their laws of sin upon other americans. Not a lot of people would be happy with that. A band of crazies should be crushed by any house of power. Exactly because power resides where people think it does is why Tyrells should show a hefty reaction to this insult and degradation. If they do nothing their name is worth nothing. And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith. On May 27 2015 10:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
2) These are very unstable times with the aftermath of a war, the loss of good leadership, financial crisis and the previous King already pissing everyone off. Do they really want to rock the boat by attacking the faith that placates the masses? Especially considering the High Sparrow is apparently very popular among the low-borns. Then there's the issue of those who still believe Tommen is a product of incest, casting further doubt on the legitimacy of the crown in the first place. Sounds like a good way to provoke a riot. But how much legitimacy is left if you allow the queen to get thrown into a dungeon in rags, before a trial has even taken place. These sparrows have already grabbed power from you, why would you care about a risk of revolt if the alternative is surrendering. I wouldn't say it's completely like the Obama scenario. If religion in King's Landing is anything like medieval religion, people are going to take it more seriously than secular Americans would take a Jehovah's Witness police. Maybe closer to what we saw in Egypt during the Arab Spring. And just like the army later took control there, we could see something similar in the show. Let's look at Henry VIII then. A king who got into an argument with the Pope and simply declared that there was a new state religion which he was the Pope of. Obviously there were a number of loyalists who held out, and indeed there was conflict, conspiracy and prejudice for hundreds of years, but the people who mattered sided with the King and the Catholic church never stood a chance. Sure, but let's remember Henry VIII was the exception, not the rule. Most medieval rulers who challenged the church got various degrees of bitchslapped. Sure, the church didn't have total power, and most of its agenda items were roundly ignored, but outright apostasy or challenge to authority tended to go poorly: Emperor Henry V or King Henry II or King John are far more reasonable examples. But the Sparrows aren't akin to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is equivalent to the institutional Septs, with the High Septon as the Pope. They're more like Waldensians or Hussites or Cathars; heretics trying to reform the church and fight for the common people by decrying the sins of the upper classes. They will probably meet the same end.
What about the Protestant uprisings during the Reformation? They led to the Peasants' War of 1524-1525 with six-figure casualties on the peasants' side (and the HRE of the early 16th century was much more stable than the Crown in the show), and Protestantism of the time was very similar, although not as militant as the Sparrows. Both groups argue for a simpler, stricter adherence to their respective texts, and to do away with the extravagance of mainstream, government-supported religion.
On May 28 2015 02:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 02:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 17:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 27 2015 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
Also, if Danaeris has demanded in her contract that they don't show her boobs, please don't put her in scenes where she has to continuously cover them in an extremely obvious way, as that's annoyingly fourth wall breaking in this series.
I did enjoy Jorah showing his fighting skills so all is not lost. Also they didn't kill Bronn which makes me very happy. Theon being a cowardly mutt was also a good choice, he's not a hero type. The Tyrell army might be the one they killed Stannis with, but it's one thing to fight off an invading army, and another to crush a popular revolt. Remember Varys's example to Tyrion about a sellsword standing between a rich man, a king and a priest where each one wants the other two dead? Power resides wherever people think it does. And in King's Landing, the power looks like it's in the hands of the priests, and that's where all the people are slowly migrating to. If the Tyrells go in to purge King's Landing, you could see a large fraction of the army defect and go after their old commanders instead. Royalty only have power because people think they do. Joffrey only had power because Tywin was around to keep it there. If he was still around right now to kickstart the holocaust, you'd see just how fast the Lannisters could get booted out of the Red Keep. Well I agree that a peoples revolt can topple kings, but there's no hints of a peoples revolt in the series... It's Cersei giving power to religious fanatics. The populous in king's landing doesn't strike me as very pious and we've not seen any mention of rioting. It's like Obama giving the jehova's witnesses guns and the power to invoke their laws of sin upon other americans. Not a lot of people would be happy with that. A band of crazies should be crushed by any house of power. Exactly because power resides where people think it does is why Tyrells should show a hefty reaction to this insult and degradation. If they do nothing their name is worth nothing. And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith. On May 27 2015 10:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
2) These are very unstable times with the aftermath of a war, the loss of good leadership, financial crisis and the previous King already pissing everyone off. Do they really want to rock the boat by attacking the faith that placates the masses? Especially considering the High Sparrow is apparently very popular among the low-borns. Then there's the issue of those who still believe Tommen is a product of incest, casting further doubt on the legitimacy of the crown in the first place. Sounds like a good way to provoke a riot. But how much legitimacy is left if you allow the queen to get thrown into a dungeon in rags, before a trial has even taken place. These sparrows have already grabbed power from you, why would you care about a risk of revolt if the alternative is surrendering. I wouldn't say it's completely like the Obama scenario. If religion in King's Landing is anything like medieval religion, people are going to take it more seriously than secular Americans would take a Jehovah's Witness police. Maybe closer to what we saw in Egypt during the Arab Spring. And just like the army later took control there, we could see something similar in the show. Let's look at Henry VIII then. A king who got into an argument with the Pope and simply declared that there was a new state religion which he was the Pope of. Obviously there were a number of loyalists who held out, and indeed there was conflict, conspiracy and prejudice for hundreds of years, but the people who mattered sided with the King and the Catholic church never stood a chance.
James I almost got bombed later because Guy Fawkes wanted to put a Catholic on the throne. If that plot succeeded, one religion or the other, or maybe both, would've lost a lot of people.
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On May 28 2015 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 05:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Come on Tommen balls up and save your wife. Not your mother, fuck that bitch. Any open action against the sparrows risks them killing their captives.If he was going to go for open agression he had to do it at the trial when they tried to take Loras and Margery. He had a chance to just let the kings guard kill them all and be able to do so without the commoners knowing until after the fact. My money is on Orella saving the day with some covered action.
See, this is the part that I least get. They are all about a fair divine trial with fair divine justice, but should they be attacked they just murder what are potentially innocent people (who are just under suspicion so far)? If that was the case, they would be hypocrites. But it also might just be the projection of Cersei because that's what she would be doing.
So far they still have left the back door open for the High Sparrow to secretly being a real player in the game and just betting high and fooling everyone. And when no one is looking he goes in the back room and bathes in gold and whores. He probably is a fanatic, but he might not be. Maybe Olenna has just not found the right price yet.
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On May 28 2015 07:07 Fi0na wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On May 28 2015 05:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Come on Tommen balls up and save your wife. Not your mother, fuck that bitch. Any open action against the sparrows risks them killing their captives.If he was going to go for open agression he had to do it at the trial when they tried to take Loras and Margery. He had a chance to just let the kings guard kill them all and be able to do so without the commoners knowing until after the fact. My money is on Orella saving the day with some covered action. See, this is the part that I least get. They are all about a fair divine trial with fair divine justice, but should they be attacked they just murder what are potentially innocent people (who are just under suspicion so far)? If that was the case, they would be hypocrites. But it also might just be the projection of Cersei because that's what she would be doing. So far they still have left the back door open for the High Sparrow to secretly being a real player in the game and just betting high and fooling everyone. And when no one is looking he goes in the back room and bathes in gold and whores. He probably is a fanatic, but he might not be. Maybe Olenna has just not found the right price yet.
If they were to execute their prisoners when faced with a superior force, that would be effectively be suicide. A hostage is supposed to be used to get something you want. That's no use if they are dead. Executing them would also probably be against their teachings.
The untried execution of the Tyrrels and Cercie would only happen if the High Sparrow doesn't care about his own religion AND is stupid. It's more likely that the prisoners will be traded as hostages, freed by the city guard or go through their trial. My money is on the trial.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 27 2015 17:38 shin_toss wrote:
Tommen can just actually order king's guard and city watch to free her m other and the Tyrells -_-
This is the whole point though, it's to contrast Tommen's rule against others in the show. In fact, recall Tywin's speech to Tommen immediately after Joffrey died on what makes a good king. Tommen's "leadership" is in fact, the absence of leadership by design of Tywin/Cersei so that they could rule by proxy. Now their puppet king is completely unable to take action on anything, and that is going to haunt Cersei now that's shes in custody.
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On May 28 2015 06:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 05:29 Yoav wrote:On May 28 2015 02:54 KwarK wrote:On May 28 2015 02:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 17:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 27 2015 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
Also, if Danaeris has demanded in her contract that they don't show her boobs, please don't put her in scenes where she has to continuously cover them in an extremely obvious way, as that's annoyingly fourth wall breaking in this series.
I did enjoy Jorah showing his fighting skills so all is not lost. Also they didn't kill Bronn which makes me very happy. Theon being a cowardly mutt was also a good choice, he's not a hero type. The Tyrell army might be the one they killed Stannis with, but it's one thing to fight off an invading army, and another to crush a popular revolt. Remember Varys's example to Tyrion about a sellsword standing between a rich man, a king and a priest where each one wants the other two dead? Power resides wherever people think it does. And in King's Landing, the power looks like it's in the hands of the priests, and that's where all the people are slowly migrating to. If the Tyrells go in to purge King's Landing, you could see a large fraction of the army defect and go after their old commanders instead. Royalty only have power because people think they do. Joffrey only had power because Tywin was around to keep it there. If he was still around right now to kickstart the holocaust, you'd see just how fast the Lannisters could get booted out of the Red Keep. Well I agree that a peoples revolt can topple kings, but there's no hints of a peoples revolt in the series... It's Cersei giving power to religious fanatics. The populous in king's landing doesn't strike me as very pious and we've not seen any mention of rioting. It's like Obama giving the jehova's witnesses guns and the power to invoke their laws of sin upon other americans. Not a lot of people would be happy with that. A band of crazies should be crushed by any house of power. Exactly because power resides where people think it does is why Tyrells should show a hefty reaction to this insult and degradation. If they do nothing their name is worth nothing. And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith. On May 27 2015 10:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
2) These are very unstable times with the aftermath of a war, the loss of good leadership, financial crisis and the previous King already pissing everyone off. Do they really want to rock the boat by attacking the faith that placates the masses? Especially considering the High Sparrow is apparently very popular among the low-borns. Then there's the issue of those who still believe Tommen is a product of incest, casting further doubt on the legitimacy of the crown in the first place. Sounds like a good way to provoke a riot. But how much legitimacy is left if you allow the queen to get thrown into a dungeon in rags, before a trial has even taken place. These sparrows have already grabbed power from you, why would you care about a risk of revolt if the alternative is surrendering. I wouldn't say it's completely like the Obama scenario. If religion in King's Landing is anything like medieval religion, people are going to take it more seriously than secular Americans would take a Jehovah's Witness police. Maybe closer to what we saw in Egypt during the Arab Spring. And just like the army later took control there, we could see something similar in the show. Let's look at Henry VIII then. A king who got into an argument with the Pope and simply declared that there was a new state religion which he was the Pope of. Obviously there were a number of loyalists who held out, and indeed there was conflict, conspiracy and prejudice for hundreds of years, but the people who mattered sided with the King and the Catholic church never stood a chance. Sure, but let's remember Henry VIII was the exception, not the rule. Most medieval rulers who challenged the church got various degrees of bitchslapped. Sure, the church didn't have total power, and most of its agenda items were roundly ignored, but outright apostasy or challenge to authority tended to go poorly: Emperor Henry V or King Henry II or King John are far more reasonable examples. But the Sparrows aren't akin to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is equivalent to the institutional Septs, with the High Septon as the Pope. They're more like Waldensians or Hussites or Cathars; heretics trying to reform the church and fight for the common people by decrying the sins of the upper classes. They will probably meet the same end. What about the Protestant uprisings during the Reformation? They led to the Peasants' War of 1524-1525 with six-figure casualties on the peasants' side (and the HRE of the early 16th century was much more stable than the Crown in the show), and Protestantism of the time was very similar, although not as militant as the Sparrows. Both groups argue for a simpler, stricter adherence to their respective texts, and to do away with the extravagance of mainstream, government-supported religion.
Yeah, but the Reformation was only able to survive because it found numerous patrons, particularly in northern Europe where the central, mainstream church had less sway. It actually differed a lot from many of the similar movements that had come before because its leaders were generally friendly to secular authority, even if the general theology still implied equality... There was a reason Luther had to take such a strong stance against "freedom," and that was to keep from losing patrons to the obvious implications of his ideas. The HRE was anything but stable, as its general collapse into chaos for the next century and a half made abundantly clear. And the Protestants were helped by other factors, like the French opposition to Imperial power, which meant that they were aided militarily by the French in Germany not long before the French turned around to annihilate their own Protestant wing.
The Sparrows, on the other hand, have no patrons and no allies, and now a lot of enemies. Their closest ideological friends are in the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is unlikely to forsake the Red God anytime soon. Conceivably Littlefinger could ally with them, but that's a pretty shitty ally for them.
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if margery confessed under oath that loras was not gay, and then the other prostitue dude confessed under oath that he was gay, why arent both of them in cells atm, margery is in the cell because of the suspision that she lied under oath but has yet to be proven, doesnt the same for that dude sure we dont get any scenes with whats happening to him but i imagine he wouldnt have agreed to confess if he gets throw away too.
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On May 28 2015 11:02 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 06:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 28 2015 05:29 Yoav wrote:On May 28 2015 02:54 KwarK wrote:On May 28 2015 02:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 17:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 27 2015 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
Also, if Danaeris has demanded in her contract that they don't show her boobs, please don't put her in scenes where she has to continuously cover them in an extremely obvious way, as that's annoyingly fourth wall breaking in this series.
I did enjoy Jorah showing his fighting skills so all is not lost. Also they didn't kill Bronn which makes me very happy. Theon being a cowardly mutt was also a good choice, he's not a hero type. The Tyrell army might be the one they killed Stannis with, but it's one thing to fight off an invading army, and another to crush a popular revolt. Remember Varys's example to Tyrion about a sellsword standing between a rich man, a king and a priest where each one wants the other two dead? Power resides wherever people think it does. And in King's Landing, the power looks like it's in the hands of the priests, and that's where all the people are slowly migrating to. If the Tyrells go in to purge King's Landing, you could see a large fraction of the army defect and go after their old commanders instead. Royalty only have power because people think they do. Joffrey only had power because Tywin was around to keep it there. If he was still around right now to kickstart the holocaust, you'd see just how fast the Lannisters could get booted out of the Red Keep. Well I agree that a peoples revolt can topple kings, but there's no hints of a peoples revolt in the series... It's Cersei giving power to religious fanatics. The populous in king's landing doesn't strike me as very pious and we've not seen any mention of rioting. It's like Obama giving the jehova's witnesses guns and the power to invoke their laws of sin upon other americans. Not a lot of people would be happy with that. A band of crazies should be crushed by any house of power. Exactly because power resides where people think it does is why Tyrells should show a hefty reaction to this insult and degradation. If they do nothing their name is worth nothing. And it really annoys me that there's an oath-sworn kingsguard of elite knights that is just chilling while their queen is thrown into a cell in rags by the word of a single man of the faith. On May 27 2015 10:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 27 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Meh the Cersei plotline was so predictable. I mean 'she's not as smart as she thinks she is' from Tywin is true but I hate that they made her retarded. She didn't survive so long on her own because she's an idiot. Putting power to people who make sinners pay while she's the biggest sinner in king's landing. What can go wrong... I hate the faith plotline. The kings/queens ruled with power of force, where the fuck are the guards/soldiers/bannermen/sellswords to make their will happen...
Tommen crying I can't do anything while Geoffrey hanged who ever the fuck he liked. He was a crazy murderous brat but people obeyed his command as the king. Robert never cared about no rules... Tyrells supposed to be the 2nd mightiest house let their two most important heirs rot in a dungeon with no response other than old mother begging people... where's the army they beat Stannis with? It's a break in consistency that makes the houses and the throne itself look powerless, while the powerstruggle between these houses for the throne is the whole baseline of the series. Royalty have power because they have the force to back it up. Fuck this dumb writing. Sorry I ranted about this last week as well but it's ruining the series for me.
2) These are very unstable times with the aftermath of a war, the loss of good leadership, financial crisis and the previous King already pissing everyone off. Do they really want to rock the boat by attacking the faith that placates the masses? Especially considering the High Sparrow is apparently very popular among the low-borns. Then there's the issue of those who still believe Tommen is a product of incest, casting further doubt on the legitimacy of the crown in the first place. Sounds like a good way to provoke a riot. But how much legitimacy is left if you allow the queen to get thrown into a dungeon in rags, before a trial has even taken place. These sparrows have already grabbed power from you, why would you care about a risk of revolt if the alternative is surrendering. I wouldn't say it's completely like the Obama scenario. If religion in King's Landing is anything like medieval religion, people are going to take it more seriously than secular Americans would take a Jehovah's Witness police. Maybe closer to what we saw in Egypt during the Arab Spring. And just like the army later took control there, we could see something similar in the show. Let's look at Henry VIII then. A king who got into an argument with the Pope and simply declared that there was a new state religion which he was the Pope of. Obviously there were a number of loyalists who held out, and indeed there was conflict, conspiracy and prejudice for hundreds of years, but the people who mattered sided with the King and the Catholic church never stood a chance. Sure, but let's remember Henry VIII was the exception, not the rule. Most medieval rulers who challenged the church got various degrees of bitchslapped. Sure, the church didn't have total power, and most of its agenda items were roundly ignored, but outright apostasy or challenge to authority tended to go poorly: Emperor Henry V or King Henry II or King John are far more reasonable examples. But the Sparrows aren't akin to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is equivalent to the institutional Septs, with the High Septon as the Pope. They're more like Waldensians or Hussites or Cathars; heretics trying to reform the church and fight for the common people by decrying the sins of the upper classes. They will probably meet the same end. What about the Protestant uprisings during the Reformation? They led to the Peasants' War of 1524-1525 with six-figure casualties on the peasants' side (and the HRE of the early 16th century was much more stable than the Crown in the show), and Protestantism of the time was very similar, although not as militant as the Sparrows. Both groups argue for a simpler, stricter adherence to their respective texts, and to do away with the extravagance of mainstream, government-supported religion. Yeah, but the Reformation was only able to survive because it found numerous patrons, particularly in northern Europe where the central, mainstream church had less sway. It actually differed a lot from many of the similar movements that had come before because its leaders were generally friendly to secular authority, even if the general theology still implied equality... There was a reason Luther had to take such a strong stance against "freedom," and that was to keep from losing patrons to the obvious implications of his ideas. The HRE was anything but stable, as its general collapse into chaos for the next century and a half made abundantly clear. And the Protestants were helped by other factors, like the French opposition to Imperial power, which meant that they were aided militarily by the French in Germany not long before the French turned around to annihilate their own Protestant wing. The Sparrows, on the other hand, have no patrons and no allies, and now a lot of enemies. Their closest ideological friends are in the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is unlikely to forsake the Red God anytime soon. Conceivably Littlefinger could ally with them, but that's a pretty shitty ally for them.
Charles V was holding it together well at the time. You could argue the divides in Christianity was actually what led it to become less stable.
I don't see any mention of France in the initial conflict: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants'_War, although I might be missing something. All the credit for putting down the rebellion seems to go to the Swabian league. The French did help later (esp. during the Thirty Years' War in opposition to the Habsburgs), but in that initial conflict, they weren't there.
The Sparrows have no allies as of yet, but maybe someone will go over to them. Cersei struck a deal and got imprisoned for it, but consider what would've happened if she wasn't having sex with her cousin and brother. Stannis would be a good bet if he didn't follow a different religion. I'm thinking of who is in the area and could take invest into the Sparrows, but there seems to be a power vacuum. The Lannisters and Tyrells won't, the Dornish probably have too much adultery going around, the last remaining Baratheon worships the Red God, and the Tullys are nowhere to be found. So unless someone from the north comes (then again, they have the old gods up there) or a minor house decides to seize power, I guess nobody can really strike an alliance without getting backstabbed. Unless of course they're more lenient than we think.
But I still contend it's a good idea in theory.
EDIT: Littlefinger would be a shitty ally for them, and from the jibe he made about religion he's not exactly a devout follower. However, assuming Lancel doesn't make a big deal of it, he could use them for his own ends. Maybe he wants to take some other throne, or the iron throne itself, but someone's in the way, so he sends word to the Sparrows to go arrest the person for whatever crime they committed, the same way Cersei got arrested for her incest. Turn them into a weapon.
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On May 28 2015 12:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
EDIT: Littlefinger would be a shitty ally for them, and from the jibe he made about religion he's not exactly a devout follower. However, assuming Lancel doesn't make a big deal of it, he could use them for his own ends. Maybe he wants to take some other throne, or the iron throne itself, but someone's in the way, so he sends word to the Sparrows to go arrest the person for whatever crime they committed, the same way Cersei got arrested for her incest. Turn them into a weapon.
Edit: nvm.
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Why would the sand snakes use poison tipped weapons? And not even poison that instantly paralyzes or whatever, which would actually be useful. No instead they use a super slowly working poison, that only kills after a few days? They knew they would be fighting their fellow countrymen. Are they that bitter that theyd want to make sure theyd kill everyone they hit, even if they were dornish? Seems strange to me.
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It's so said how little we get of this show. I could watch GoT every day for years, it's really one of the very few shows that got to me so much; there doesn't have to be a reason, I just feel so comfortably watching it. The only thing I don't like is the inconsistency of the personal performances - however I am not sure how much of it is the actors' fault and how much of it is the "design" of the characters pigeonholing some actors to do really silly caricatures, but it is getting almost disruptive.
There are some really great performances. Tyrion is obvious, even though surprising to me - when I first saw him, I thought "OK, they have obviously cast a small guy for a cliche role", but the actor turned out to be absolutely stellar. His greatest strength is the one that misses from many other characters of the show: he can believably portray a wide range of traits, he is not black/white and he seems to really live through the role; for people who are not book fans, his performance is surely one of the cornerstone of the show's popularity. I also love how Cersei is portrayed - Lena Headey is actually the only actor from the show I have known beforehand and she did not disappoint in the slightest, she is stunningly good at playing unpleasant people; I have seen an interview with here on some late show where she spoke about people being angry at her IRL because she is so convincingly evil and I really can get behind that. I once watched some C-level movie on a bus (was that the Judge Dredd reboot?) and basically paid attention from the moment I realized that Lena Headey is playing a character whose butt is gonna be kicked and I can't miss that.
But some characters are very weak. Littlefinger got degraded to the point that he just stands stiffly and declares in self-imporant words statements about his emotions, goals or offerings that are completely implausible from him - the character is written as a rather intricate one, but the delivery completely fails. Ned Stark's only luck was he god killed early and became a meme for the show so that people didn't notice that he was a parody on fantasy. Brienne of fucking Tarth got covered in so deep layers of overacting that she may never find a way out and probably will never be able to speak with a diction of a human being. I am torn about Danny. She used to (and still has some moments) to be really pathetic, but isn't that actually what her character should look like? The actress got a pretty though deal and I thing she made the best of it, making Daenarys really different from the other characters.
Even despite some weaker pieces, this season has been great. The only thing I can't get my head around with is actually one single word, from the True king Stannis, when he Grammar-Nazied someone in Castle black. What the HELL was that? And how did they make it sound absolutely natural?
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