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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa.
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best part of the season: the existence of cock merchants, why arent the boltons as rich as the lannisters?
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Because Lannisters had gold mines in Casterly Rock that made them filthy rich but they don't have that anymore because Robert liked to spend money. So now they depend on Tyrells for money. So technically Lannisters aren't even that rich because of their debt to the Iron bank. North on the other hand doesn't seem to have a lot of riches so it makes sense that they aren't as wealthy.
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On May 20 2015 03:42 Naphal wrote:
best part of the season: the existence of cock merchants, why arent the boltons as rich as the lannisters?
Because you'd need a dwarf farm to harvest them cocks.
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On May 20 2015 03:29 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:24 karazax wrote:On May 20 2015 03:09 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 03:02 Kenpark wrote:
Kinda getting tired of the show. The dorne scenes are horrible. Why in hell would Roos Bolton marry Sansa to Ramsey ? Does he not know the Lannisters hate her ? What is in for him and his family ? He already is warden of the north no need fpr Sansa.
This whole religious movement in Kings Landing is also coming out of nowhere I feel. I'm pretty sure there would be enough powerful people in the city that would shut down a movement like this from the beginning.
Also Margaery basicaly has no power at all ? When Cersei was queen she was always escorted by the Kings Guard. And Margaery cant do anything to get her brother free and is now even arrested herself ? As the fucking Queen ?
Tywin is dead and the north hate the Boltons. The marriage makes sense. Why would they give up being Wardens of the north just to have a figure head Stark wife? Seems like a lot to give up for minimal gain. Who is left in the north for the Boltons to even care besides Stannis? There weren't any other northern lords at the wedding. If they cared about having a Stark wed a Bolton at all you would expect they would attend. Or at least be mentioned. Now they are enemies of the crown and no longer Warden's of the North, but at least they shored up their claim with what ever northerners who are left who probably still hate them  They are still Wardens of the north. Part of Bolton's calculus was that Cersei wouldn't care enough to go to war over it, and naming another Warden means going to war. Cersei in fact seems to be okay with Littlefinger doing his thing, but presumably plans to not personally interfere, which in practice means recognizing whoever wins the fight and not worrying about it. Littlefinger's endgame is harder to read. It's possible he means to show up with an army of the Vale and just defect to Stannis. It's also possible he recognizes Stannis as a threat (ideologically, they're pretty incompatible and it would be a disaster for Littlefinger if Stannis took the throne) and plans to support the Boltons or something else entirely.
If you betray the Iron Throne, logically you lose your title as Warden of the North. It also likely means reversing the royal decree that legitimized Ramsay Snow. Not realizing that Cersei would care about the person she believes murdered her son is just stupidity on Roose's part. I'm surprised she doesn't suspect him of harboring Tyrion too. He didn't even bother to ask for Cersei's help in the north before doing it. Just kind of assumed that with Tywin dead they wouldn't care, but it's not JUST Cersei's concern. Stannis threatens all the rulership in King's Landing. The Tyrells have reason to care. The Freys have reason to care. And what are the Lannister and Tyrell armies doing right now that is more important than trying to prevent Stannis from over throwing them?
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On May 20 2015 04:16 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:29 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2015 03:24 karazax wrote:On May 20 2015 03:09 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 03:02 Kenpark wrote:
Kinda getting tired of the show. The dorne scenes are horrible. Why in hell would Roos Bolton marry Sansa to Ramsey ? Does he not know the Lannisters hate her ? What is in for him and his family ? He already is warden of the north no need fpr Sansa.
This whole religious movement in Kings Landing is also coming out of nowhere I feel. I'm pretty sure there would be enough powerful people in the city that would shut down a movement like this from the beginning.
Also Margaery basicaly has no power at all ? When Cersei was queen she was always escorted by the Kings Guard. And Margaery cant do anything to get her brother free and is now even arrested herself ? As the fucking Queen ?
Tywin is dead and the north hate the Boltons. The marriage makes sense. Why would they give up being Wardens of the north just to have a figure head Stark wife? Seems like a lot to give up for minimal gain. Who is left in the north for the Boltons to even care besides Stannis? There weren't any other northern lords at the wedding. If they cared about having a Stark wed a Bolton at all you would expect they would attend. Or at least be mentioned. Now they are enemies of the crown and no longer Warden's of the North, but at least they shored up their claim with what ever northerners who are left who probably still hate them They are still Wardens of the north. Part of Bolton's calculus was that Cersei wouldn't care enough to go to war over it, and naming another Warden means going to war. Cersei in fact seems to be okay with Littlefinger doing his thing, but presumably plans to not personally interfere, which in practice means recognizing whoever wins the fight and not worrying about it. Littlefinger's endgame is harder to read. It's possible he means to show up with an army of the Vale and just defect to Stannis. It's also possible he recognizes Stannis as a threat (ideologically, they're pretty incompatible and it would be a disaster for Littlefinger if Stannis took the throne) and plans to support the Boltons or something else entirely. If you betray the Iron Throne, logically you lose your title as Warden of the North. It also likely means reversing the royal decree that legitimized Ramsay Snow. Not realizing that Cersei would care about the person she believes murdered her son is just stupidity on Roose's part. I'm surprised she doesn't suspect him of harboring Tyrion too. He didn't even bother to ask for Cersei's help in the north before doing it. Just kind of assumed that with Tywin dead they wouldn't care, but it's not JUST Cersei's concern. Stannis threatens all the rulership in King's Landing. The Tyrells have reason to care. The Freys have reason to care. And what are the Lannister and Tyrell armies doing right now that is more important than trying to prevent Stannis from over throwing them?
Lannister and Tyrell armies are hanging out with their families. It's a feudal system; you can't have the armies called up for very long at a go. You do a campaign, your soldiers go back and deal with their home life. Then you call them up again when you really need them.
Also, Bolton has hardly "betrayed the iron throne." It's not treason to marry Sansa. He's merely pissed off the Queen Mother, and he can probably survive that. Survive Stannis, probably not.
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On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa.
Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers.
After all, the North remembers.
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United States43258 Posts
On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers.
Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa.
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On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa.
They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers?
She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real.
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On May 20 2015 04:16 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:29 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2015 03:24 karazax wrote:On May 20 2015 03:09 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 03:02 Kenpark wrote:
Kinda getting tired of the show. The dorne scenes are horrible. Why in hell would Roos Bolton marry Sansa to Ramsey ? Does he not know the Lannisters hate her ? What is in for him and his family ? He already is warden of the north no need fpr Sansa.
This whole religious movement in Kings Landing is also coming out of nowhere I feel. I'm pretty sure there would be enough powerful people in the city that would shut down a movement like this from the beginning.
Also Margaery basicaly has no power at all ? When Cersei was queen she was always escorted by the Kings Guard. And Margaery cant do anything to get her brother free and is now even arrested herself ? As the fucking Queen ?
Tywin is dead and the north hate the Boltons. The marriage makes sense. Why would they give up being Wardens of the north just to have a figure head Stark wife? Seems like a lot to give up for minimal gain. Who is left in the north for the Boltons to even care besides Stannis? There weren't any other northern lords at the wedding. If they cared about having a Stark wed a Bolton at all you would expect they would attend. Or at least be mentioned. Now they are enemies of the crown and no longer Warden's of the North, but at least they shored up their claim with what ever northerners who are left who probably still hate them They are still Wardens of the north. Part of Bolton's calculus was that Cersei wouldn't care enough to go to war over it, and naming another Warden means going to war. Cersei in fact seems to be okay with Littlefinger doing his thing, but presumably plans to not personally interfere, which in practice means recognizing whoever wins the fight and not worrying about it. Littlefinger's endgame is harder to read. It's possible he means to show up with an army of the Vale and just defect to Stannis. It's also possible he recognizes Stannis as a threat (ideologically, they're pretty incompatible and it would be a disaster for Littlefinger if Stannis took the throne) and plans to support the Boltons or something else entirely. If you betray the Iron Throne, logically you lose your title as Warden of the North. It also likely means reversing the royal decree that legitimized Ramsay Snow. Not realizing that Cersei would care about the person she believes murdered her son is just stupidity on Roose's part. I'm surprised she doesn't suspect him of harboring Tyrion too. He didn't even bother to ask for Cersei's help in the north before doing it. Just kind of assumed that with Tywin dead they wouldn't care, but it's not JUST Cersei's concern. Stannis threatens all the rulership in King's Landing. The Tyrells have reason to care. The Freys have reason to care. And what are the Lannister and Tyrell armies doing right now that is more important than trying to prevent Stannis from over throwing them?
Probably still fighting in the Riverlands and Stormlands and defending against Ironborn raids. It's also not a trivial thing to send an army all the way north, even if you fully controlled the Riverlands, and even if winter wasn't coming.
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United States43258 Posts
On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real.
Hence why they're eager to put a Bolton baby in her. Also the cleaning lady is not necessarily an authority on these matters.
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On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real.
You expect the North to kick out Sansa's family so she can rule alone?
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i've always hated sansa the most of the cast. everyone wants to feel sorry for her but she's just been a whiny, spoiled kid since season 1 who magically escaped all trouble that met her until last episode.
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On May 20 2015 04:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real. Hence why they're eager to put a Bolton baby in her. Also the cleaning lady is not necessarily an authority on these matters.
I'm half expecting the cleaning lady to be a bait from the Boltons. Also, does anyone think Ramsay could turn against his father at some not-too-distant point?
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On May 20 2015 04:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real. You expect the North to kick out Sansa's family so she can rule alone?
... What?
No one considers the Boltons to be her family, lol.
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On May 20 2015 04:06 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:42 Naphal wrote:
best part of the season: the existence of cock merchants, why arent the boltons as rich as the lannisters? Because you'd need a dwarf farm to harvest them cocks.
How do you think Tywin made his fortune?
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United States43258 Posts
On May 20 2015 05:30 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real. You expect the North to kick out Sansa's family so she can rule alone? ... What? No one considers the Boltons to be her family, lol.
Then who is? She's a woman in the GoT world. Her use is her name and her womb. Boltons bought those off of Littlefinger.
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On May 20 2015 05:18 Mafe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:50 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real. Hence why they're eager to put a Bolton baby in her. Also the cleaning lady is not necessarily an authority on these matters. I'm half expecting the cleaning lady to be a bait from the Boltons. Also, does anyone think Ramsay could turn against his father at some not-too-distant point?
I thought it was pretty clear that the cleaning lady was probably the wife or a friend of the guy who was asked by Brienne to deliver a message. So this "support in the north" is not out of the blue or much of a real support from the population but just Brienne doing her thing.
And Ramsay knows that he is only the Bolten heir until something better comes along. So he is grateful and fears his father, but he probably would easily cut him off if he could do so for sure. Maybe his father becomes boring
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On May 20 2015 05:18 Mafe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:50 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:49 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 04:43 KwarK wrote:On May 20 2015 04:33 killa_robot wrote:On May 20 2015 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Ross Bolton explained it the previous (I think) episode. With Tywin dead he has lost his Lannister backed power. The north kinda hates him for betraying the Starks so without their backing his position is precarious. Add in Stannis to the north of him requiring him to get an army together as big as he can. Binding Sansa to his line is probably a bit to get some of the other northerners to aid him against Stannis.
I doubt he considered Cersei would be willing to go to war over Sansa. Unlikely. While it may get some of the larger houses to be a bit more accepting of their legitimacy, the average person would still see them as usurpers. After all, the North remembers. Remembers what? Remembers loyalty to the Starks? The Stark dynasty has been wiped out except for Sansa. There is no going back and the way forwards is through Sansa. They remember the Starks are the true rulers of the north. Did you forget the cleaning lady that kept saying Sansa had allies and that the north remembers? She can still rule the north alone if the Boltons are kicked out, so there's no reason for everyone to accept them for real. Hence why they're eager to put a Bolton baby in her. Also the cleaning lady is not necessarily an authority on these matters. I'm half expecting the cleaning lady to be a bait from the Boltons. Also, does anyone think Ramsay could turn against his father at some not-too-distant point?
The Boltons did not even know where Sansa was before she showed up in Winterfell so no.
And I dont see Ramsay turning against his dead. While he is not exactly eager about his new sons lack of tact he does allow it.
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