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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Oberyn is in the gray area because he's not evil nor done something good for others I think. Majority of characters are on the gray thats what make this series unpredictable and wanting to watch more. If i'm going to assess main characters that on a particular side probably
Good: Stark Family except Arya and Sansa
Evil: Ramsay , Cersei , Joffrey , Mountain
the rest are on gray and shady parts. which depends on your perspective
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Ok so, next episode is episode 9. Which means that shit is going down. I'm not going to speculate on what (I was utterly stunned by episode 9 of every season thus far) and speculating would not do it justice. So let's update the status of the plot lines so far:
Tyrion is sentenced to death. There are no more outs for him, so for him to survive he's going to need help. King's Landing is in increasing Lannister control, though the Tyrells are still there. (But it sounded like the old Tyrell lady wanted to leave.)
100k wildlings, plus a band from the south, are about to attack the Wall with only 100 able combatants.
Danerys has unruly dragons, and sent 2 of her most trusted advisers away. She's also finding out that ruling isn't so easy, and not black and white as "slavery = bad, freedom = good," but she's so stubborn that I don't know if she actually realizes that.
Littlefinger gets to mold the Lord of the Vale (with Sansa's help? Not sure what her role is here now.) Arya and the Hound are there too, but still unsure whether they go in or leave. Arya is growing darker every episode.
There are other storylines too. Bran is heading more north...not sure why. Stannis has an army and is sailing north(?) Brienne is looking for Sansa. The Boltons have complete control of the north, and we have a completely twisted torturer gaining power. The Ironborne, Tullys, Martell, and Tyrells haven't made moves in a while. Also haven't seen that guy who constantly revives.
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On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2.
Yeah Joffrey getting 304 scenes of being complete evil is obviously countered by him dying to poison in 2 minutes of show time. Im actually done watching GoT. The only thing that matters is "tricking" the audiences expectations, instead of Reek being found out and having some actual tension, we have random soldier kill the leader and wallah everythin solved. How convenient. Plot points. Starks have gotten raped in every fucking scene since the beginning, daenarys plot line is as bad as a Spartacus sub plot. The only thing different between M Night Shyamalan and R R is one guy got called out sooner than the other. For how intricate and uncompromising GoT is in the details, its strangely manufactured. Not going into the finer details, but R R will make entire story arcs just to fuck the audience. No worries. Boardwalk empire had the same bullshit, started strong but then killed off every worthwhile character because oh like its the 21st century.
Arya and Tyrion prolly magically get under Ramseys control and become Stench and Mump and after 12 episodes of torture they finally duel to Ramseys amusement and Mump, (Arya,) kills Stench dead, then smiles up to Ramsey who then has her killed because Mump cant have any pleasure!? Then rapes her dead body with Reek playing a sad violin song. See now that will probably happen.
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Fuck this upset me so much. Even more than the other shit happening. Mostly cause before this I was thinking holy shit if Oberyn dies in this I think I'd be ridiculously pissed. The other death timings were unpredictable at least but this one was like, ok, Oberyn is fighting next episode and he may win or may not.
Jesus christ I was dreading this episode so badly because I thought such a cool, calm, and confident character like Oberyn couldn't possibly misjudge and lose this fight, but then I thought wtf no that would go against everything GoT stands for if the good guy was supposed to predictably win and save one of our favorite character's lives and everyone lives happily ever after.
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On June 02 2014 16:16 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2. Yeah Joffrey getting 304 scenes of being complete evil is obviously countered by him dying to poison in 2 minutes of show time. Im actually done watching GoT. The only thing that matters is "tricking" the audiences expectations, instead of Reek being found out and having some actual tension, we have random soldier kill the leader and wallah everythin solved. How convenient. Plot points. Starks have gotten raped in every fucking scene since the beginning, daenarys plot line is as bad as a Spartacus sub plot. The only thing different between M Night Shyamalan and R R is one guy got called out sooner than the other. For how intricate and uncompromising GoT is in the details, its strangely manufactured. Not going into the finer details, but R R will make entire story arcs just to fuck the audience. No worries. Boardwalk empire had the same bullshit, started strong but then killed off every worthwhile character because oh like its the 21st century. Arya and Tyrion prolly magically get under Ramseys control and become Stench and Mump and after 12 episodes of torture they finally duel to Ramseys amusement and Mump, (Arya,) kills Stench dead, then smiles up to Ramsey who then has her killed because Mump cant have any pleasure!? Then rapes her dead body with Reek playing a sad violin song. See now that will probably happen.
- I'm unsure what you were expecting with Joffrey. He was already a shameful character that nobody really liked nor cared much for after his death. I suppose it could have been much more satisfactory if his death was more torturous and drawn-out, but poison seems the most reasonable death for him since it's kind of hard to kill the King of Westeros. --;
- Starks had some fine moments earlier on. Rob had a successful campaign until he started to make stupid decisions.
- Not gonna disagree with Dany >_>
- Disagree on your criticism of Theon this past ep. So he gets found out to be a fraud and the struggle for Moat Cailin drags on? Who cares about that. imo that was a great scene. It simultaneously showed the cutthroat and scoundrel-like behavior of the Ironborn while also continuing to show the calculating and deplorable tactics of the Boltons. Neither party is particularly likable.
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Well, Oberyn, I know you can't hear me now, but when you are in a fight, especially against such a deadly opponent, you must concentrate everything on defeating/killing your adversary. I thought you're experienced enough to understand this simple but important principle. But no, you must let your lust for vengeance take over, blinding you, and in the end it's the price you have to pay. T_T
You were defeated today, not by the Mountain, but by yourself. Good night my sweet prince.
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User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 02 2014 16:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 16:03 MaestroSC wrote:On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2. i guess im alone in not liking Dany... she doesnt seem to be any better than anyone else. She makes decisions like a child. (tho i guess in the books she is only like 14-15 or something ya?) but literally she makes a decision..someone tells her its wrong then she changes it..nonstop. idk not a fan. Oh I'm not either by any means. She does seem to be an especially popular character though (Emilia Clark always gets a lot of cheers) and one that seems to be more affiliated with qualities one would consider "good". I don't think she's a good leader, but she does have noble intentions with trying to break the slave trade in Essos. You can't really fault her for wanting what she's been brought up to believe is her birthright in Westeros either.
I couldnt get over the fact that she was willing to unleash a barbarian horde on Westeros that would rape, murder and pillage everything in sight just so she could sit on the iron throne. It should be brought up more often.
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By the way, Oberyn was never in the fight in order to defend Tyrion. It was not a gesture of good will; he didn't really care for Tyrion (outside of maybe pity). His goal was to get a confession out of the Mountain that 1) he did commit the crimes against his sister, and 2) they were on the order of Tywin. He went in knowing he could very well die.
Once he got the upper hand, and the Mountain was lying incapacitated on his back, Oberyn could easily killed him, but he DIDN'T WANT TO. He was actually worried about the Mountain dying too fast. That's when he lost his composure - trying to make sure that the Mountain confessed before dying.
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On June 02 2014 16:35 Bowzar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 16:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 16:03 MaestroSC wrote:On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2. i guess im alone in not liking Dany... she doesnt seem to be any better than anyone else. She makes decisions like a child. (tho i guess in the books she is only like 14-15 or something ya?) but literally she makes a decision..someone tells her its wrong then she changes it..nonstop. idk not a fan. Oh I'm not either by any means. She does seem to be an especially popular character though (Emilia Clark always gets a lot of cheers) and one that seems to be more affiliated with qualities one would consider "good". I don't think she's a good leader, but she does have noble intentions with trying to break the slave trade in Essos. You can't really fault her for wanting what she's been brought up to believe is her birthright in Westeros either. I couldnt get over the fact that she was willing to unleash a barbarian horde on Westeros that would rape, murder and pillage everything in sight just so she could sit on the iron throne. It should be brough up more often.
Well, she is kind of a naive young girl as well. I don't think she fully grasps the rigors of war and leadership which was kind of evident in how she was opposed to how the Dothraki treated their prisoners (namely the women) despite wanting to lead a conquest in Westeros.
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On June 02 2014 16:36 Sandster wrote:
By the way, Oberyn was never in the fight in order to defend Tyrion. It was not a gesture of good will; he didn't really care for Tyrion (outside of maybe pity). His goal was to get a confession out of the Mountain that 1) he did commit the crimes against his sister, and 2) they were on the order of Tywin. He went in knowing he could very well die.
Once he got the upper hand, and the Mountain was lying incapacitated on his back, Oberyn could easily killed him, but he DIDN'T WANT TO. He was actually worried about the Mountain dying too fast. That's when he lost his composure - trying to make sure that the Mountain confessed before dying.
Err, even though Oberyn knew he could die, I'm pretty sure he was so confident in himself that he didn't think that was a real possibility. "Today is not the day I die"
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yeah im pretty sure, he thought was was gonna win the fight pretty easily
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Let me rephrase that...he knew that one mistake meant it was over.
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On June 02 2014 16:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 16:35 Bowzar wrote:On June 02 2014 16:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 16:03 MaestroSC wrote:On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2. i guess im alone in not liking Dany... she doesnt seem to be any better than anyone else. She makes decisions like a child. (tho i guess in the books she is only like 14-15 or something ya?) but literally she makes a decision..someone tells her its wrong then she changes it..nonstop. idk not a fan. Oh I'm not either by any means. She does seem to be an especially popular character though (Emilia Clark always gets a lot of cheers) and one that seems to be more affiliated with qualities one would consider "good". I don't think she's a good leader, but she does have noble intentions with trying to break the slave trade in Essos. You can't really fault her for wanting what she's been brought up to believe is her birthright in Westeros either. I couldnt get over the fact that she was willing to unleash a barbarian horde on Westeros that would rape, murder and pillage everything in sight just so she could sit on the iron throne. It should be brough up more often. Well, she is kind of a naive young girl as well. I don't think she fully grasps the rigors of war and leadership which was kind of evident in how she was opposed to how the Dothraki treated their prisoners (namely the women) despite wanting to lead a conquest in Westeros.
Yes, I think this was shown in the last episodes when she realized everything she had done didn't really pan out the way she expected. She has ideals and uses her power as a means to achieve them but her problem is she wants everything.
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i would have really liked this ep if obyern had won, now the other pretty nice parts are clouded by this bitter feeling in my stomach :/
he should have rolled or something after he was tripped over 
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On June 02 2014 16:47 Shock710 wrote:
i would have really liked this ep if obyern had won, now the other pretty nice parts are clouded by this bitter feeling in my stomach :/
And let Tyrion live ?
Nah he has to die !
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Sigh.
That was just disappointing. I mean, as soon as he started circling the mountain when he's on his back, it was obvious he was going to die. I'm not even really sad or anything, it's just one big facepalm.
Why is it every character even remotely close to being "good" always does stupid shit in the end? Why the fuck would the mountain have confessed anyway? Why couldn't Oberyn just kill him and be done with it?
Just so disappointing. The show is starting to lose steam though. Tyrion's trial is really the only interesting thing going on now. I can only assume that means the deal with the wall is FINALLY going to happen, and fuck everything up for everyone.
So it's literally like what someone else said. GRRR takes all the characters we like, spends the first 4 seasons systematically killing them off, then unleashes the zombies on the world, and kills off the bad guys. Then we're left with dany flying in with dragons and saving the day. But of course, she'll die too, because saving people is a good action, and that just cant go unpunished.
I can really see the ratings start to go down soon.
Also the beetles story was lame.
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On June 02 2014 16:45 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 16:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 16:35 Bowzar wrote:On June 02 2014 16:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 16:03 MaestroSC wrote:On June 02 2014 15:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 02 2014 15:38 MaestroSC wrote:
Im going to write an incredibly successfull book series...
every single likeable character will die horrible deaths.
all of the villains will love forever, and rape the corpses of the dead heroes.
Then the villains will kill eachother..
the only thing left alive will be a 20 yr old sociopath who likes to rape the corpses animals/small children, and he will rule the entire world. It will be a huge success... since that is all it takes to become a successful fantasy author apparently.
i hate this show.
HOW was oberyn in the gray area? Because he wanted to kill the guy who raped/killed his sister, along with her children?
How is that a gray area? I think most people would say its justified to want to get revenge for the brutal rape and murder of your family members?
I know the series can be very frustrating, but when you calm down you'll see how unreasonable you're being. Bad shit happens to the guys generally considered to be the "bad guys" too and sometimes the "good guy" catches a break. Joffrey died earlier this season and a common complaint of Dany's story thus far has been that she's had nothing but smooth sailings. Just killing the more likable character isn't solely what makes this series interesting it's that few characters really meet the criteria for being clearly categorized as good or evil. Which is unusual for the fantasy genre. Almost everyone is a grey character. Jamie seemed like a piece of shit at the beginning of this series, but over time he grew into being one of the more popular characters. It was only in raping Cersei earlier in this season did people seem to remember that he threw a fucking kid out a window and murdered a young man to escape his cell back in season 2. i guess im alone in not liking Dany... she doesnt seem to be any better than anyone else. She makes decisions like a child. (tho i guess in the books she is only like 14-15 or something ya?) but literally she makes a decision..someone tells her its wrong then she changes it..nonstop. idk not a fan. Oh I'm not either by any means. She does seem to be an especially popular character though (Emilia Clark always gets a lot of cheers) and one that seems to be more affiliated with qualities one would consider "good". I don't think she's a good leader, but she does have noble intentions with trying to break the slave trade in Essos. You can't really fault her for wanting what she's been brought up to believe is her birthright in Westeros either. I couldnt get over the fact that she was willing to unleash a barbarian horde on Westeros that would rape, murder and pillage everything in sight just so she could sit on the iron throne. It should be brough up more often. Well, she is kind of a naive young girl as well. I don't think she fully grasps the rigors of war and leadership which was kind of evident in how she was opposed to how the Dothraki treated their prisoners (namely the women) despite wanting to lead a conquest in Westeros. Yes, I think this was shown in the last episodes when she realized everything she had done didn't really pan out the way she expected. She has ideals and uses her power as a means to achieve them but her problem is she wants everything.
It makes sense. All other heirs to great houses grew up with real-life experience and advice from their parents ruling in the real world, along with education of rulers (both good and bad) of past and prsent. Dany had nothing, except tales from her brother about how they should be the rightful rulers.
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I dont get either why so many people think dany is "good". She tries to be good, sure, but many of her actions backfire in some way or dont last long (the cities she conquered before are now back under control of slavers). But then there's still the minor fact of being willing to bring war to a continent for the sake of what she thinks is her "right".
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Guys... things like today's chapter make me wanna read the book... Is it possible to start in a book and avoid reading what i've seen in the serie? I mean, can i start reading the third book? or the fourth... or even the second?
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EPT
