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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best.
well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best.
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I think Syrio Forel needs a place in that poll as well, many of you have forgotten our dancing master!
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On April 20 2014 04:47 urboss wrote:
I hope that Jaime Lannister will prove everyone wrong and become the best again in future episodes.
Also, I hope to see some Ser Barristan "carving the cake" action, the legends surrounding this guy are huge.
The idea of him still beating them all despite his age is very alluring.
how you can be the best with one hand ?
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I think the Hound beats the Mountain any day of the week. The Mountain is just pure brute strength, and has no real technique. Sandor is, on the other hand, a good swordsman, and an excellent fighter. You say his fight at the inn was sloppy, I say it was just his style. He took out like, what, 4 soldiers? I doubt that even Jaime in his prime could handle 4 soldiers at once, but apparently Sandor can.
Also, I think Bronn is overrated, and that Brienne would die pretty quickly against the Mountain. She beat Loras because she was able to overpower him, smashing into him like a total brute. Let her try and do that against the Mountain, haha. Also, she beat Jaime because he was totally worn out, out of training and had been underfed and tied down for like a year. She's a good fighter no doubt, but the Mountain is just a freak of a man who can handle a two-handed great-sword with just one hand.
If Oberyn were in the poll, I'd vote for him hands down. He drew his knife SO quickly against the Lannister bannerman, it was pretty insane. Also, yeah, according to the trailer, he's quite the dancer. And I don't know, he just has this badass attitude of the cocky guy who can backup his words  ))
On April 20 2014 05:08 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 04:47 urboss wrote:
I hope that Jaime Lannister will prove everyone wrong and become the best again in future episodes.
Also, I hope to see some Ser Barristan "carving the cake" action, the legends surrounding this guy are huge.
The idea of him still beating them all despite his age is very alluring.
how you can be the best with one hand ?
Qorin Halfhand was said to be a very skilled fighter, and while he wasn't one-handed, his other hand was pretty much useless as it was missing a ton of fingers. I mean, he stood up to Jon, and very likely held back so that he would kill him in a way that would let the wildlings believe it.
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On April 20 2014 05:06 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best. well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best.
The fight didn't go very long, and Jaime was pretty clearly having fun with it for awhile. You really can't draw conclusions from a fight like that - except that the main characters were obviously better than the random men they killed. On top of that, Ned has a Valyrian steel greatsword (did he use it in that scene? I don't remember) and is going all-out from the start, giving him one hell of an edge (hohoho, puns) that still barely equalizes things.
He's definitely up there, particularly because he's not been in any actual battles for ages and might be rusty as hell, so his prime is probably pretty respectable.
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I'd say Bronn is a good swordsman, but more importantly he is an excellent survivor. He probably just runs away from any fight he thinks he is going to lose.
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On April 20 2014 05:10 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 05:06 Sub40APM wrote:On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best. well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best. The fight didn't go very long, and Jaime was pretty clearly having fun with it for awhile. You really can't draw conclusions from a fight like that - except that the main characters were obviously better than the random men they killed. On top of that, Ned has a Valyrian steel greatsword (did he use it in that scene? I don't remember) and is going all-out from the start, giving him one hell of an edge (hohoho, puns) that still barely equalizes things. He's definitely up there, particularly because he's not been in any actual battles for ages and might be rusty as hell, so his prime is probably pretty respectable.
Ned didn't use Ice during that fight. He had a regular sword, that looked pretty similar to Jaime's. It seems to me that Ice is mostly a heirloom of House Stark, used for ceremonies and death sentences. I doubt he fought with it much. Even if it's Valyrian steel, it's still a great-sword, not that easy to handle unless you have a lot of strength.
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Jaime can probably still hold a shield with his fake hand.
Note that the wiki states that Loras Tyrell was one of to few to beat Jaime Lannister:
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Loras_Tyrell
Syrio Forel, Ned Stark and Khal Drogo are all dead already.
That said, I would have liked to see Khal Drogo and The Mountain duking it out.
Edit: There's some hope that Syrio Forel is still alive.
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On April 20 2014 05:28 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 05:10 Dfgj wrote:On April 20 2014 05:06 Sub40APM wrote:On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best. well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best. The fight didn't go very long, and Jaime was pretty clearly having fun with it for awhile. You really can't draw conclusions from a fight like that - except that the main characters were obviously better than the random men they killed. On top of that, Ned has a Valyrian steel greatsword (did he use it in that scene? I don't remember) and is going all-out from the start, giving him one hell of an edge (hohoho, puns) that still barely equalizes things. He's definitely up there, particularly because he's not been in any actual battles for ages and might be rusty as hell, so his prime is probably pretty respectable. Ned didn't use Ice during that fight. He had a regular sword, that looked pretty similar to Jaime's. It seems to me that Ice is mostly a heirloom of House Stark, used for ceremonies and death sentences. I doubt he fought with it much. Even if it's Valyrian steel, it's still a great-sword, not that easy to handle unless you have a lot of strength.
Fair enough, I wasn't sure. Disregard my point on that, then.
He beat him in a joust, which means... not much outside of jousting. Even in cavalry charges you're not running straight into each other (though it does suggest Loras has some good horsemanship skills).
Jaime could strap a buckler to his arm, but he's going to need tremendous training to re-develop his muscles. I'm a university fencer and the idea of using my left hand to fight is horrifying, literally every movement of my arms/body/feet would be un-intuitive and clumsy.
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On April 20 2014 05:28 urboss wrote:Jaime can probably still hold a shield with his fake hand. Note that the wiki states that Loras Tyrell was one of to few to beat Jaime Lannister: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Loras_TyrellSyrio Forel, Ned Stark and Khal Drogo are all dead already. That said, I would have liked to see Khal Drogo and The Mountain duking it out.
I actually think Khal Drogo was like hands down the best fighter when he was alive. He was super big and muscular, perhaps not as much as the Mountain, but he moved insanely fast. In the episode where he fights the Dothraki who defies him, he dodges everything so nimbly that it's hard to believe, for such a big guy.
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Of all, dead and alive, I'd have to give it to Syrio. The guy took out a bunch of armorclad Lannister soldiers with a wooden sword, I think he'd have a pretty easy time with a real one.
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On April 20 2014 04:54 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2014 19:50 Acertos wrote:
Hmm. Seeing how it's going, I think that either Jon Snow or Ygritte will die and most likely both.
I will explain it, Jon Snow can be harmed in Castle Black, he has enemies there, he could also be send on a suicidal mission, he could also die in battle against some windlings and he could also be killed by Ygritte. Even if Stannis comes it will most likely be too late.
For Ygritte, she might be killed by windlings if she refuses some advances, she might die at Castle Black because of the night watch or Stannis's men.
In a stupid movie the most likely scenarios would be: Ygritte and Jon Snow survive together and escape > Ygritte and Jon Snow both die hand in hand > Ygritte kills Jon Snow or the reverse but these are unlikely to happen. Although I'm sure Martin will kill Ygritte at some point to make Jon Snow even more of a tough hero, I don't see Jon dying. Think about it: if he dies there is basically no protagonist in the north / on the wall anymore. That doesn't make sense.
Mmmm I think you have it backwards. I don't think Jon is going to make it through this season... Boltons are heading up there to off him, and if Ygritte witnesses that then she becomes the main protagonist in the north with a revenge motive against house Bolton who also gives us a point of view into the wildlings. Plus there's still Brann in the north.
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On April 20 2014 06:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Of all, dead and alive, I'd have to give it to Syrio. The guy took out a bunch of armorclad Lannister soldiers with a wooden sword, I think he'd have a pretty easy time with a real one.
He concussed a bunch of suited-up peasants, basically - and the wooden sword isn't a disadvantage* there because we know it's pretty heavy (first conversation with Arya) and a blunt weapon is better for hurting someone that wears armor anyways.
*Until it breaks. Then he dies.
Guy's good but it also seems like he fights a more 'duel' style than 'combat' style.
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We have Sam in the north, and the remaining Night's Watch members might broker some sort of truce with the Wildlings once they realize the extent of the threat.
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Jaqen H'ghar. The other guy is dead before he even knows he's in a fight.
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On April 20 2014 05:10 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 05:06 Sub40APM wrote:On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best. well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best. The fight didn't go very long, and Jaime was pretty clearly having fun with it for awhile. You really can't draw conclusions from a fight like that - except that the main characters were obviously better than the random men they killed. On top of that, Ned has a Valyrian steel greatsword (did he use it in that scene? I don't remember) and is going all-out from the start, giving him one hell of an edge (hohoho, puns) that still barely equalizes things. He's definitely up there, particularly because he's not been in any actual battles for ages and might be rusty as hell, so his prime is probably pretty respectable.
He wasnt using a great sword, Jaimie clearly takes the smirk of his face halfway through the fight when his expectation of besting Ned disappear and Ned was tired from slaying random Lannister guys. Seems to me like in a fair fight where they both had time to prepare Ned would be his equal. But that might also be a function of douchebaggary, like both Jaimie and Loras clearly underestimate their opponents and fight like they are spreading their fame while Ned/Brienne fight to win.
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On April 20 2014 06:24 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 06:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Of all, dead and alive, I'd have to give it to Syrio. The guy took out a bunch of armorclad Lannister soldiers with a wooden sword, I think he'd have a pretty easy time with a real one. He concussed a bunch of suited-up peasants, basically - .
I dont think the Lannister troops in the capital would be random peasants, I would think they would be the flower of Lannister army because (a) they are there to guard Cercei and her kids (b) they are there to be the most visible part of Lannisters to the kingdoms.
So Tywin would have sent men who could theoretically fight off anyone else in the capital for long enough for Cercei to escape if Baratheons were making a move. Not some random conscripts.
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On April 20 2014 07:59 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 06:24 Dfgj wrote:On April 20 2014 06:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Of all, dead and alive, I'd have to give it to Syrio. The guy took out a bunch of armorclad Lannister soldiers with a wooden sword, I think he'd have a pretty easy time with a real one. He concussed a bunch of suited-up peasants, basically - . I dont think the Lannister troops in the capital would be random peasants, I would think they would be the flower of Lannister army because (a) they are there to guard Cercei and her kids (b) they are there to be the most visible part of Lannisters to the kingdoms. So Tywin would have sent men who could theoretically fight off anyone else in the capital for long enough for Cercei to escape if Baratheons were making a move. Not some random conscripts.
This is the medieval-esque era, the bulk of the soldiers aren't far off from peasants (for whatever the comparison to the real world is worth). You might have a point about the capital thing, but the kingdoms have also been at peace for long enough that it might not hold. They definitely wouldn't have formal combat training like the noble characters.
On April 20 2014 07:56 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 05:10 Dfgj wrote:On April 20 2014 05:06 Sub40APM wrote:On April 20 2014 03:50 CatfooD wrote:
Edit: I'd also be very curious to see how Ned Stark would fit into this mix of fighters, although I still don't think he would be the best. well, he fought Jaimie in his prime to a draw after having killed two other Lannisters while Jaimie is just chillin, so Ned seems like one of the best fighters if Jaimie is supposed to be the best. The fight didn't go very long, and Jaime was pretty clearly having fun with it for awhile. You really can't draw conclusions from a fight like that - except that the main characters were obviously better than the random men they killed. On top of that, Ned has a Valyrian steel greatsword (did he use it in that scene? I don't remember) and is going all-out from the start, giving him one hell of an edge (hohoho, puns) that still barely equalizes things. He's definitely up there, particularly because he's not been in any actual battles for ages and might be rusty as hell, so his prime is probably pretty respectable. He wasnt using a great sword, Jaimie clearly takes the smirk of his face halfway through the fight when his expectation of besting Ned disappear and Ned was tired from slaying random Lannister guys. Seems to me like in a fair fight where they both had time to prepare Ned would be his equal. But that might also be a function of douchebaggary, like both Jaimie and Loras clearly underestimate their opponents and fight like they are spreading their fame while Ned/Brienne fight to win.
He takes the smirk off when he realizes it isn't a free win, not because he's worried about losing. Jaime also slew a Stark guy, so you've got to count it both ways there. I see it more as if both went in with the expectation of a mortal duel, Jaime would treat it quite differently while Ned... not sure. We have no way of knowing how much either of them aimed to injure/kill each other.
As for Brienne, the fights Brienne has won are: 1) tackling Loras after he had her disarmed and thought the fight was over (which could have been against the rules, who knows - most duels are halted when someone's disarmed), 2) beating up a guy who's been in prison unable to move for months if not longer, malnourished and atrophied, with his hands chained together. She fights to win and she can't be terrible if she got to the final round vs Loras, but I'm not convinced of much yet.
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On April 20 2014 05:11 Just_a_Moth wrote:
I'd say Bronn is a good swordsman, but more importantly he is an excellent survivor. He probably just runs away from any fight he thinks he is going to lose.
"You dont fight with honor!"
"No, but he did"
Best fucking line of the whole damn series.
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Personally I'd say Khal Drogo was probably the best fighter
He was fast, strong, and unlike most characters he could tank a few solid blows
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EPT
