EPTBecause its film.
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 173
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Because its film. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:04 Plansix wrote: There are like 1000 reasons why she didn’t hug Chewie that are totally reasonable, including that he didn’t look like he wanted one right then. And people who don’t know each other hug when people they both knew die. That is just fact, I’ve dealt with it firsthand. No, there aren't 1000 reasons. It's one thing to hug someone you don't know after a death, it's a totally different thing to ignore your close friend who witnessed the death first-hand to go out of your way to hug someone you do not know, and without even acknowledging the close friend. On January 06 2016 06:06 The_Red_Viper wrote: Why did she hug Rey? Because Rey is the new lead character, that's why. On January 06 2016 06:13 Plansix wrote: The real answer is: Because its an transition shot showing the arrival of Rey, her meeting Leia and comforting her after Han’s death and then moving the plot forward to R2-D2 waking up. She hugs Chewie off camera because that isn’t a critical first meeting of critical characters and we already had his emotional moment when shot the fuck out of Kylo. Because its film. So you agree with me that the only justification for that scene comes from outside of the story and not from within the story, meaning it is a flaw with the script. Thanks. On January 06 2016 06:06 The_Red_Viper wrote: See that is one example of nitpicking. Han probably told Leia about Rey, that she got caught by Kylo Ren, etc They probably have a connection through the force as well. Maybe Leia even knows/assumes that Rey is Luke's daughter (if she is). It really isn't all that important, unless you make a big deal out of it. None of that justifies ignoring Chewie for Rey, and we're not shown either Han or Leia knows who she is. Who said it was important? It's just another poor element in the script. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:17 The_Red_Viper wrote: This is fucking ridiculous. I thought you are somewhat reasonable, but yeah i was wrong. I’ve said it before in other threads, fandom sucks. Super fans suck most of all. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:17 The_Red_Viper wrote: What's "fucking ridiculous" is the usual suspects being incapable of accepting any possible criticism of any scene and any aspect of the movie. You could have shrugged off what I wrote, or acknowledged that it didn't make much sense in the movie, but no -- you just had to add your posts to Plansix' to find a way to defend the scene at all costs.This is fucking ridiculous. I thought you are somewhat reasonable, but yeah i was wrong. On January 06 2016 06:18 Plansix wrote: You might as well have not posted anything.You cracked the code, it’s was because it’s a movie. Chewie was clearly a victim of film making. His feeling may never recover. On January 06 2016 06:18 Plansix wrote: The irony.I’ve said it before in other threads, fandom sucks. Super fans suck most of all. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Your criticism of that scene definitely qualifies for it. What is next? I am really curious at this point. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote: What's "fucking ridiculous" is the usual suspects being incapable of accepting any possible criticism of the movie. You could have shrugged off what I wrote, or acknowledged that it didn't make much sense, but no -- you had to add your posts to Plansix to find a way to defend the scene at all costs. Its mostly that you are a jerk about almost everything you talk about, talk down to people and seem set on nitpicking this movie to death in the most joyless fashion possible. You killed your own joy, so now you have moved on to everyone else. If anyone responds to your posts with their own thoughts, you simply dismiss them and declare they are wrong. There is no discussion, you nitpick and declare in your joyless march forward. I said it before, but you are the Simpson Comic Book Guy. Every one of your points is read in his voice in my mind. On January 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote: The irony. The truth hurts. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:23 The_Red_Viper wrote: I can accept criticism, i cannot accept nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking though. Your criticism of that scene definitely qualifies for it. What is next? I am really curious at this point. Nobody's nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I'm disappointed in the movie, and I'm commenting on both large issues (such as the lack of context), and flaws that are found within individual scenes (such as this one). If you're not interested in discussing the latter, don't comment instead of whining about the types of comments on the movie you're coming across in a thread devoted to it. On January 06 2016 06:24 Plansix wrote: Its mostly that you are a jerk about almost everything you talk about, talk down to people and seem set on nitpicking this movie to death in the most joyless fashion possible. You killed your own joy, so now you have moved on to everyone else. If anyone responds to your posts with their own thoughts, you simply dismiss them and declare they are wrong. There is no discussion, you nitpick and declare in your joyless march forward. News flash: calling something a "nitpick" doesn't invalidate the substance of that comment: it simply indicates that you do not see the criticism (or its subject) as important -- which is perfectly fine, but then simply abstain from commenting instead of wasting everyone's time by taking it to personal attacks. There was a discussion, and I was responding to your points, until The_Red_Viper and yourself decided to stop actually discussing the scene and go for personal insults instead. On January 06 2016 06:24 Plansix wrote: I said it before, but you are the Simpson Comic Book Guy. Every one of your points is read in his voice in my mind. The truth hurts. I know it won't help you avoid wasting your time with laughable personal attacks in the future, but if your aim is to achieve anything else than prove to me further that you're incapable of having a critical mind, you're failing miserably. I'm not sure why I would be hurt by your comments. I find your emotional responses to my criticism of the movie pretty funny, honestly. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4937 Posts
Also, if I recall correctly, even though Leia looked for Rey in that scene, Chewie walked by before Rey and Leia hugged, so the entire criticism could be dismissed simply by that alone. At first I also thought it was weird Leia not hugging Chewie (or vica versa) during the film but then I saw that mutual understanding in the force or whatever, that may make a feeling of loss even greater than other beings or whatever. Also don't forget, Han was going to be Rey's mentor, a new authority figure she could look up to. There's no understating how fast you can get emotionally invested in that, especially after being alone for that long. Something I didn't quite understand: how did R2D2 awake from its slumber? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
But please, continue with this lofty criticism as you continue your joyless efforts to tear down the film. Provide us with this next hot take on some scene that bothered you and you felt is totally out of character, bad or not internally consistent. I am excited for your break down of the bow caster and how the projectiles were not consistent with the Star Wars universe. Or why a two seat Tie Fighter is terrible and didn’t make sense. And this isn't a personal attack. It is a criticism of your discussion style. It is valid because its criticism and that is always valid. Always. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:40 Uldridge wrote: Actually, in the previous post that wasn't addressed, I'm going to reiterate it again: maybe Chewie didn't want to be hugged, maybe he was too bummed out? Maybe they deal in a very different way with anger/sadness than joy (losing Han vs seeing Leia again). Also, if I recall correctly, even though Leia looked for Rey in that scene, Chewie walked by before Rey and Leia hugged, so the entire criticism could be dismissed simply by that alone. I would actually argue that Chewie walking by is precisely what gives substance to the criticism: whether or not Chewie did not want to be hugged, the point is that Leia did not even acknowledge him. On January 06 2016 06:40 Uldridge wrote: Something I didn't quite understand: how did R2D2 awake from its slumber? The explanation isn't given in the film itself. From what J.J. Abrams said in interviews, R2D2 apparently took some time to boot after BB-8 initially came to him and fully woke up at the perfect time after the attack to share the map with everyone else. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:40 Uldridge wrote: Something I didn't quite understand: how did R2D2 awake from its slumber? I assumed he woke up once Rey arrived at the base. That he was passively waiting to guide someone to Luke. But the re-boot reasoning is fine too. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:44 Plansix wrote: Just being honest. And your only output in this thread is bringing your new “criticism” of the film to argue with people about. You don’t join in other discussions or add anything beyond disagreement with people who enjoyed the film. You are the wet blanket in this TFA party, set on sucking the fun out of the room like a black hole. But please, continue with this lofty criticism as you continue your joyless efforts to tear down the film. Provide us with this next hot take on some scene that bothered you and you felt is totally out of character, bad or not internally consistent. I am excited for your break down of the bow caster and how the projectiles were not consistent with the Star Wars universe. Or why a two seat Tie Fighter is terrible and didn’t make sense. And this isn't a personal attack. It is a criticism of your discussion style. It is valid because its criticism and that is always valid. Always. I've joined in plenty of discussions, and I have been discussing the movie since the 16th of December. You happened to like it (which is great for you), and I happen to have been disappointed by it. We're both entitled to our opinions, but you're the one who keeps going for cheap personal attacks because you can't seem to be able to deal with the fact that others are unhappy with what you see as unimportant aspects of the film. You criticizing my discussion style is highly ironic considering the petty insults you keep resorting to while I'm actually interested in discussing substance. If you're not interested in what I have to say, just ignore my posts. And if you have something else to say to me about my "posting style", just take it to PM instead of wasting more space here. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
There are tons of possibilities on why Leia and Chewie didn't hug there. Some got mentioned. Also at one point you have to evaluate if it's even an interesting topic to discuss, in this case it clearly is not, which is why i defined it as nitpicking. And i think it is. The lack of context is no nitpicking, i don't necessarily agree that we know too little, but there is an discussion to be had about it at least. I think it should be trivial why the one issue is interesting and the other is not. Something I didn't quite understand: how did R2D2 awake from its slumber? We don't get an answer for this. You can either try to find an explanation which works for you or you can get angry about it and tell us how the script sucks because of it  Nah srsly, there really is no answer, the force i guess | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:14 kwizach wrote: No, there aren't 1000 reasons. It's one thing to hug someone you don't know after a death, it's a totally different thing to ignore your close friend who witnessed the death first-hand to go out of your way to hug someone you do not know, and without even acknowledging the close friend. The reasons of "No there are not" isn't a discussion point. Its a flat denial and then you restate your previous points. That isn't a discussion, its just saying "Yes" and "no" at each other. In other posts I responded to saying I didn't find something to diminish my enjoyment of the film, you responded with that you didn't care if it bothered me. That isn't a discussion either. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:54 The_Red_Viper wrote: kwizach it is hard to have a "discussion" when every single potential (inuniverse) explanation is met by "huh that doesn't explain anything, the script sucked!" There are tons of possibilities on why Leia and Chewie didn't hug there. Some got mentioned. That is a complete misrepresentation of my replies to your explanations, and you know it. You and Plansix both mentioned an out-of-universe explanation with which I agree, but I replied rationally to each of the in-universe reasons you came up with. On January 06 2016 06:54 The_Red_Viper wrote: Also at one point you have to evaluate if it's even an interesting topic to discuss, in this case it clearly is not, which is why i defined it as nitpicking. And i think it is. The lack of context is no nitpicking, i don't necessarily agree that we know too little, but there is an discussion to be had about it at least. I think it should be trivial why the one issue is interesting and the other is not. At one point, you have to realize that your opinion of what is and isn't important isn't necessarily shared by everyone on the forum. If other posters want to reply to me, they will. If other posters don't want to reply to me, they won't. You authoritatively declaring that an issue is "nitpicking" and not worth talking about achieves nothing except waste space. Ignore the posts you're not interested in replying to, and you'll be fine. Also, like I told Plansix, please take it to PM if you have anything else to say to me regarding my posting, because we're wasting everyone's time here. On January 06 2016 07:00 Plansix wrote: It is also hard to discuss anything with someone who address points like this: The reasons of "No there are not" isn't a discussion point. Its a flat denial and then you restate your previous points. That isn't a discussion, its just saying "Yes" and "no" at each other. In other posts I responded to saying I didn't find something to diminish my enjoyment of the film, you responded with that you didn't care if it bothered me. That isn't a discussion either. What else is there to reply to "There are like 1000 reasons why she didn't hug Chewie that are totally reasonable"? We both know there aren't 1000 reasonable reasons for that, and I replied to the ones you did post. With regards to your second comment, from what I recall I replied to you that I was not interested in how you personally felt about a particular issue because I was trying to discuss the actual issue, while you were posting about how it was fine in your opinion (again, I'm happy for you that you enjoyed elements that bothered me, but I'd like to discuss substance and not "how does Plansix feel about things"). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 07:07 Plansix wrote: As long as we all agree we have been wasting our time responding to you, I feel this has ended in a good place. That's not what I said, but if yet another petty comment from you is what it takes for you to move on, great. | ||
Falling
Canada11368 Posts
We don't get an answer for this. You can either try to find an explanation which works for you or you can get angry about it and tell us how the script sucks because of it Nah srsly, there really is no answer, the force i guess I think there is a third way- I think it is fine to identify that particular story moment as a flaw. It wasn't well explained, and adding one additional shot of one light blinking on and a quiet startup hum begin once BB8 gives up and leaves could've set up the end scene. It doesn't exist and so the film maker had to explain that particular moment outside of the work- we have the explanation, and I am content with the explanation. But it's a moment where story intention didn't line up with story execution, and so is a minor storytelling flaw. I'm starting to feel the arguments are getting a little polarized and unnecessarily heated. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 06 2016 07:13 Falling wrote: I think there is a third way- I think it is fine to identify that particular story moment as a flaw. It wasn't well explained, and adding one additional shot of one light blinking on and a quiet startup hum begin once BB8 gives up and leaves could've set up the end scene. It doesn't exist and so the film maker had to explain that particular moment outside of the work [...]. But it's a moment where story intention didn't line up with story execution, and so is a minor storytelling flaw. I agree. | ||
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