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On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok
He is not a janitor, that was a joke by Solo, he is a storm trooper assigned to waste disposal.
And yes it is still dumb and adds nothing. shouldn't have been included.
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On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok
Why does this same Janitor get his ass kicked by a stormtrooper in melee combat only to then hold his ground against a sith apprentice?
There are so many flaws in this movie that to find it enjoyable you gotta just shrug and laugh at recycled jokes, watch explosions and laser fights while a hot chick kicks ass.
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On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok
You weren't paying attention. He was not simply traumatized by the killings. He said himself that he does not want to kill FOR the First Order. He's not some pacifist make love not war guy. Also, most (if not all) of his stormtrooper frags were in self-defense.
And why is a janitor in battle you might ask? Well, obviously he was not abducted to be a janitor. They were trained and brainwashed from a young age to be loyal soldiers to the First Order. That's why I frown when people fail to understand how could he even handle a lightsaber. Children are played at every role in soccer trainings, there are many superstars who were once goalkeepers, then ended up being strikers, or were once strikers, but ended up being defenders. Probably the same thing happened with Finn. The First Order needed everything a military would need; assault troopers, technicians, pilots, melee combatants (probably in case they had to invade a planet where it is easy to force them into close combat, thus rifles would be a handicap). But we've seen how their outfit differentiated those bike troopers in RotJ, or that special force which supported Vader in Empire Strikes Back (like the flamethrower guy in TFA) and so on. Finn was eventually sent out as an assault trooper. Why was he the janitor then? Well, it's not like they are fighting 0-24, especially when you did not even have any mission yet. It makes sense to use the newbies for such duties, just like there is a hierarchy in real life military. Who will clean the toilets, the sergeant or the private who's been serving there for 1 month?
Now, as to why he knows about the plan... First of all, genereal redhead takes pride in his Finn-like stormtroopers, after all, he argues with Kylo that they are better and more loyal than clone troopers, or something like that. If you are so sure you have a perfectly brainwashed army, then it makes sense that you are not overly cautious as to what information you share with them. I can't remember now what Finn knew exactly, but knowing where the shield generator is does not seem far-fetched to me. Especially since someone had to clean that up as well.
Seriously, many accusations would never ever surface if people would watch the movie one more time. I read many complaints that how bad is it that we have to put together some puzzles from outside sources, meanwhile there are questions and concerns raised which are literally answered by a character in the movie.
On December 29 2015 10:01 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok Why does this same Janitor get his ass kicked by a stormtrooper in melee combat only to then hold his ground against a sith apprentice? There are so many flaws in this movie that to find it enjoyable you gotta just shrug and laugh at recycled jokes, watch explosions and laser fights while a hot chick kicks ass.
When did he hold his grounds exactly? Ren was toying with him. Watch the movie again, wait for the scene when Finn cuts Ren then start a stopwatch and stop it when Finn smashes head first into the snow. I believe the watch will stop around 3 seconds.
But whatever, some of you guys try very hard to shit on this movie.
edit: It's also ironic that even those people complain about an action-packed movie who fail to understand those scenes which are not 100%, only like 90% obvious. Then suddenly "OMG WHAT HAPPENED, BULLSHIT!!" I'm starting to understand why George Lucas wrote those dialogues in the prequels. He must've been more aware of his target audience, so he made sure that everyone will understand that Anakin and Padme loves each-other.
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The girl makes the movie worse. A scavenger beating luke's student come on and she can pilot the millenium falcon all alone and pilot it at a very high level.
This movie would have been better if instead planet exploding, the first order sent out armies of death squad storm troopers throughout the Republic planets to show how powerful and ruthless they were. That would be a bad ass villain. This movie makes me care about neither the republic nor the empire.
The first order looked weak, kylo Ren is jar jar as a villain, and Harrison ford, who is the most memorable in this movie, should have been the main character and focus of this movie. Old smuggler near the end of his life does one last service for the republic.
Edit
Volband you're an apologist for this movie and I dont know why.
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On December 29 2015 10:31 Deathstar wrote:
The girl makes the movie worse. A scavenger beating luke's student come on and she can pilot the millenium falcon all alone and pilot it at a very high level.
The movie heavily-implied that Rey was Luke's student as well... If you ever come to my country, I gladly invite you to watch the movie together. I actually like to explain things, so it's a win-win for us both. I'll pay.
On December 29 2015 10:31 Deathstar wrote:
Edit
Volband you're an apologist for this movie and I dont know why.
Maybe come up with something which explains why it might be stupid what I just told you. You throw judgement at the movie about scenes and things you did not understand, even if they were 1. literally said out loud 2. very hevaily implied 3. makes perfect sense if you think about it a bit.
But no, you are that guy who goes:
- HOW DID HE GET HERE? HE WAS ON THE OTHER PLANET AMINUTE AGO?
- Um, he said he's going to use the teleporter...
- Oh yeah... ? Well... fuck him anyway.
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Did we watch the same movie? Rey as luke's student was not implied at all.
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On December 29 2015 10:01 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok Why does this same Janitor get his ass kicked by a stormtrooper in melee combat only to then hold his ground against a sith apprentice? There are so many flaws in this movie that to find it enjoyable you gotta just shrug and laugh at recycled jokes, watch explosions and laser fights while a hot chick kicks ass.
This has been discussed 20 or 25 pages ago. He did not hold his ground to Kylo Ren, KR is clearly toying with him just randomly swinging his saber on one hand being too confident, because of that Kylo got hit, and knocked Finn out instantly after.
He is not a janitor, just assigned at waste disposal, even its just his duty I believe all storm troopers are all well trained in combat, in addition, it makes more sense that he knows the location etc.. since disposaland wastes stuff are probably all around the station. AND the one who thought of the weak spot was not Finn, it was one of the resistance asian smart guy that said it should have an oscillator blah blah.
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On December 29 2015 10:36 Deathstar wrote:
Did we watch the same movie? Rey as luke's student was not implied at all.
Watch the flashback scene. It is implied that Kylo and his knights were killing off Luke's students, but Kylo saved Rey at the very last time. edit: Kylo saving Ren was not implied, it was actually shown. Just editing it here to clear it up.
Then Rey was dropped off at Jakku by a MYSTERIOUS INDIVIDUAL (totally not Luke or someone he sent to do it), whom she knew and loved very much, other wise she wouldn't have been sobbing and craving back to him/her.
edit2: also, look at Luke's face at the end. He knows her and not really happy that he sees her again.
edit3: also also also, while the Hungarian dub is fucked up during the flashback scene, I read that the voice that tells young, crying Rey to go is the same old guy who gave Poe the map at the beginning. That guy also said that Leia will remain Princess Leia for her (he said "Queen Leia" in Hungarian I think), which, once again, implies that he has a good relationship with the Skywalkers, so if thy [the Skywalkers] wanted to ask a favor he would gladly deliver. Like, taking care of a young girl whom Luke does not and/or can not train anymore.
On December 29 2015 10:39 shin_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 10:01 Orcasgt24 wrote:On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok Why does this same Janitor get his ass kicked by a stormtrooper in melee combat only to then hold his ground against a sith apprentice? There are so many flaws in this movie that to find it enjoyable you gotta just shrug and laugh at recycled jokes, watch explosions and laser fights while a hot chick kicks ass. This has been discussed 20 or 25 pages ago. He did not hold his ground to Kylo Ren, Kylo, KR is clearly toying with him just randomly swinging his saber on one hand being too confident, because of that Kylo got hit, and knocked Finn out instantly after. He is not a janitor, just assigned at waste disposal, even its just his duty I believe all storm troopers are all well trained in combat, in addition, it makes more sense that he knows the location etc.. since disposaland wastes stuff are probably all around the station. AND the one who thought of the weak spot was not Finn, it was one of the resistance asian smart guy that said it should have an oscillator blah blah.
Exactly. I have no idea how suddenly I am an apologist for pointing out that you gotta clean toilets and wash clothes in the military, no matter what.
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Volband i agree with pretty much everything you said. I myself gave up to 'explain' the scenes though, it seems pointless because i get the feeling that these guys simply don't want to like the movie.
It isn't perfect, it has flaws and writing issues. But when i read these weird complaints which shouldn't even be there after watching the movie somewhat closely/thinking for one second, then yeah i figure it's a waste of time to argue.
But i guess you are still motivated :D
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Yea, it's pretty clear that Rey was either:
1. Luke's student
2. Luke's daughter
3. Leia's daughter
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On December 29 2015 09:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok He is not a janitor, that was a joke by Solo, he is a storm trooper assigned to waste disposal. And yes it is still dumb and adds nothing. shouldn't have been included.
What exactly does he tell Solo in the original version when they land on the planet about his job? There might be a translation error in the german version. Pretty sure he said "Sanitäter" in german which translates to medic.
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On December 29 2015 10:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Volband i agree with pretty much everything you said. I myself gave up to 'explain' the scenes though, it seems pointless because i get the feeling that these guys simply don't want to like the movie.
It isn't perfect, it has flaws and writing issues. But when i read these weird complaints which shouldn't even be there after watching the movie somewhat closely/thinking for one second, then yeah i figure it's a waste of time to argue.
But i guess you are still motivated :D
People might think I'm some ultimate fedora SW-fan but that's pretty far from it. It just pains me when anything or anyone I like gets so much unjust hate for no good reason. Like, here is a movie which went pretty safe, recycling entire storylines from the OT, giving us non-stop action and very few beautiful scenes and almost no history lesson as to what the eff is happening. I mean, I did not even realize during my first watch that the Resistance and the Rebels are different groups. There are many things people can bash this movie for, even if I personally don't mind these flaws as much.
But it's extremely annoying, as you said yourself, when people are SOOOOOOOO confident in themselves that they just figured out how shit this movie is, when it's obvious they were sleeping through half of it, and even during the other half, they were just waiting for things to say "a-ha!!! that made no sense!! check-mate J.J.!!!!!"
There's also like a 10% chance that these people are not entirely absorbed by the dark side, so they at least listen to reason when presented to them, and say "oh, yeah, true, I should've payed attention. Still don't like the movie, but I guess that's one thing off from the cons list!" But then of course, there's the 90% that I'm just an apologist and Finn totally gave Kylo Ren (who was totally fine btw, Chewie's blaster shot is like long-ranged tickling) an extremely hard time, and Finn is totally not a soldier who has been trained extensively for ~15 years.
(I'm also at work  )
On December 29 2015 10:54 TerransHill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 09:59 Gorsameth wrote:On December 29 2015 09:46 Deathstar wrote:
Speaking of believable, why is a janitor in battle and why does a janitor know the weakspot of the planet, the weak spot that makes the planet explode?
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse.
Yeah ok He is not a janitor, that was a joke by Solo, he is a storm trooper assigned to waste disposal. And yes it is still dumb and adds nothing. shouldn't have been included. What exactly does he tell Solo in the original version when they land on the planet about his job? There might be a translation error in the german version. Pretty sure he said "Sanitäter" in german which translates to medic.
It was janitor in the Hungarian.
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On December 28 2015 20:37 riotjune wrote:
"It's over Anakin. I have the high ground."
"You underestimate my POwer!"
"Don't try it."
"AAAAAAAAAGH!"
*chops off both legs*
"uuaaaggggh"
Then in Return of the Jedi when Luke is fighting Vader in the emperor's throne room and Luke jumps up to the high ground, Vader goes "not this again" and throws his lightsaber at him.
Speaking of that scene and Vader's lightsaber, I am confused about the lightsaber that Rey finds in TFA.
So Anakin has at first, then Obi-Wan takes it when he chops his legs off.
Then Obi-Wan gives it to Luke in A New Hope. But doesn't Luke lose it on Cloud City when he gets his hand cut off? Then he has to build the Green one in the next movie.
So how'd they get that lightsaber back???
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On December 29 2015 11:01 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2015 20:37 riotjune wrote:
"It's over Anakin. I have the high ground."
"You underestimate my POwer!"
"Don't try it."
"AAAAAAAAAGH!"
*chops off both legs*
"uuaaaggggh" Then in Return of the Jedi when Luke is fighting Vader in the emperor's throne room and Luke jumps up to the high ground, Vader goes "not this again" and throws his lightsaber at him. Speaking of that scene and Vader's lightsaber, I am confused about the lightsaber that Rey finds in the TFA. So Anakin has at first, then (somehow it turns from blue to red at this point??) Obi-Wan takes it when he chops his legs off. (Back to blue then??) Then Obi-Wan gives it to Luke in A New Hope. But doesn't Luke lose it on Cloud City when he gets his hand cut off? Then he has to build the Green one in the next movie. So how'd they get that lightsaber back???
When does Anakin's lightsaber turn to red?! He had a blue one while fighting Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan took that one from him.
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I was drunk in the theater so ill take your word for it that Rey was heavily implied to be related to Luke (which sucks but whatever).
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On December 29 2015 11:04 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 11:01 TheFish7 wrote:On December 28 2015 20:37 riotjune wrote:
"It's over Anakin. I have the high ground."
"You underestimate my POwer!"
"Don't try it."
"AAAAAAAAAGH!"
*chops off both legs*
"uuaaaggggh" Then in Return of the Jedi when Luke is fighting Vader in the emperor's throne room and Luke jumps up to the high ground, Vader goes "not this again" and throws his lightsaber at him. Speaking of that scene and Vader's lightsaber, I am confused about the lightsaber that Rey finds in the TFA. So Anakin has at first, then (somehow it turns from blue to red at this point??) Obi-Wan takes it when he chops his legs off. (Back to blue then??) Then Obi-Wan gives it to Luke in A New Hope. But doesn't Luke lose it on Cloud City when he gets his hand cut off? Then he has to build the Green one in the next movie. So how'd they get that lightsaber back??? When does Anakin's lightsaber turn to red?! He had a blue one while fighting Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan took that one from him.
Yea, just checked, it was always blue. but the question still remains.
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On December 29 2015 11:04 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 11:01 TheFish7 wrote:On December 28 2015 20:37 riotjune wrote:
"It's over Anakin. I have the high ground."
"You underestimate my POwer!"
"Don't try it."
"AAAAAAAAAGH!"
*chops off both legs*
"uuaaaggggh" Then in Return of the Jedi when Luke is fighting Vader in the emperor's throne room and Luke jumps up to the high ground, Vader goes "not this again" and throws his lightsaber at him. Speaking of that scene and Vader's lightsaber, I am confused about the lightsaber that Rey finds in the TFA. So Anakin has at first, then (somehow it turns from blue to red at this point??) Obi-Wan takes it when he chops his legs off. (Back to blue then??) Then Obi-Wan gives it to Luke in A New Hope. But doesn't Luke lose it on Cloud City when he gets his hand cut off? Then he has to build the Green one in the next movie. So how'd they get that lightsaber back??? When does Anakin's lightsaber turn to red?! He had a blue one while fighting Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan took that one from him.
i'm not sure how accurate this is but this is what i've read from some star-wars wiki. it was stated that their personality / fighting style affected the shape and color of the saber. hence why darth maul had a dual saber and why some colors are red blue or green. i'm going on a wild hunch here and assume blue = good, red = bad, green = yoda students, yoda himself, or some shit along those lines.
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Kylo got hit by Chewie's bowcaster, which was shown to hit like a grenade launcher earlier in the film. Kylo also may have been on tilt from killing Han, and this is confirmed in the novelization where he finds himself feeling weaker from that rather than stronger like what he was expecting.
I'm really curious to see what they do with Finn in the next movies. Is he going to make a recovery somehow? Is he actually force sensitive?
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We should make a poll about who made the most damage to the OT Jar Jar Binks or Jar Jar Abrahms.  .
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On December 29 2015 09:33 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 07:36 Gorsameth wrote:On December 29 2015 05:25 Volband wrote:
I don't see Rey ever being on the dark side. Anakin was already a self-righteous asshole at the age of Rey's, and Luke will be the best Jedi master she could've wished for. Luke already proved he can use the power of the dark side while remaining the light side.
Finn on the other hand... he seems to be the most emotional protagonist in the new trilogy, and the whole movie started with him struggling. He has tons of reasons to take revenge, and he might be Force-sensitive as well. Luke's teachings didn't help Kaylo resist the dark side. No reason to think it would help Rey. Ren somehow failed despite having the most famous and powerful relatives in the galaxy. Rey was leading a pretty shitty life, yet she was full of positive energy and kindness. I mean, if they really want to turn her to the dark side and still make it believable, then pretty much the entire next episode have to be about setting it up, and then finalize it in episode IX. Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 09:16 Chewbacca. wrote:
Edit: Also, I'm almost certain that you are wrong about Fin being a clone. They phased out the clone troopers at the end of the clone wars and transitioned to storm troopers. I'm pretty sure there was a scene where Ren or one of upper "bad guys" referenced going back to the clones after the storm troopers failures. Fin is not a clone. There was even a hologram about him when he was just a child. Who clones children instead of grown ups? There was also a female stormtrooper reporting to Ren, which makes this whole clone debate kinda pointless. There is a clone army, but they did not use it in this episode.
yeah it took like 2-3 movies setting up anakin's history to make it believable and well paced. But you could see the gradual transition in every single one of the movies, the evidence was there. For anakin it was his mother being a slave, that was placed in there very early on and used as a transitional point throughout the story. the 2nd part was the council not trusting him and kinda not giving him the respect or acceptance he wanted which ended up being the turning point. Rey doesn't really have any of those things.....she doesn't have some external attachment that can be used against her to be the catalyst, not from what i've seen so far. her introduction to the movie was basically random...with the droid stumbling into her.
On December 29 2015 12:22 eviltomahawk wrote:
Kylo got hit by Chewie's bowcaster, which was shown to hit like a grenade launcher earlier in the film. Kylo also may have been on tilt from killing Han, and this is confirmed in the novelization where he finds himself feeling weaker from that rather than stronger like what he was expecting.
I'm really curious to see what they do with Finn in the next movies. Is he going to make a recovery somehow? Is he actually force sensitive?
i'm willing to bet money on the fact that disney will revive him and bring him out of a coma because the force "awoke" in him. it's going to be some ass-hat pull about how advance medical science was incapable of actually waking him up and that the force of good inside him is what allowed him to wakeup and ultimately awaken his powers. the setup for this is too obvious. Not to mention the implications he was a jedi was also there due to the fact he was able to use Luke's Saber.
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EPT
