EPTStar Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 148
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
Finn on the other hand... he seems to be the most emotional protagonist in the new trilogy, and the whole movie started with him struggling. He has tons of reasons to take revenge, and he might be Force-sensitive as well. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
The hand guard of ren's was borderline acceptable so I hope they won't come out with something shitty | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
First off, seeing it in said IMAX 3D and seeing the Star Wars story intro roll with the music did generate some goosebumps and it was a joy to watch. + Show Spoiler + A bit surprised though that apparently everything from the previous movies sort of faded into legend, which kinda leads me to a few questions: 1. Where is the New Republic? Shouldn't the fallen Empire's fleet have become the New Republic fleet? Where were they? It felt a lot like Rebels vs Empire again even though this time the First Order should've have been the much smaller party. Also, why do Stormtroopers have to be the bad guys? Again? We've seen that already. Seeing Kylo throw a fit with his lightsaber makes me question why the Stormtroopers would even want to work for them when there's a shiny New Republic to work for. Where was the rest of the entire galaxy? 2. A bigger Death Star? Really? We're supposed to be 'fighting the Dark Side' but here's a Death Star III? Complete with a critical weakness conveniently placed on the planet surface for an enemy to blow to bits, only protected by a shield that can be simply shut off and not turned on again. I was expecting something more mysterious and intricate, something really...Dark Side-ish. Like...mind control or some kind of dark influence. We've already seen planets blowing up. Also, if that new Death Star eats up the entire sun, where did it get the fuel for the second shot from? Do they have to wait somehow for the sun to regenerate/reignite? Because after the Death Star III blew up (what a shock) it seemed like the energy formed a new star there. 3. So a shiny scavenger girl who is Force-sensitive can magically duel with a lightsaber against a trained dark side opponent, naturally use a JEDI Mind Trick as well as telekinesis? That she could sense a thing or two and have faster reactions/reflexes would've been fine but I found it very odd that Kylo Ren, even with an injury, was defeated by a completely untrained scavenger who just happened to be Force-sensitive. Dooku owned Anakin in their first duel and they both had lightsaber training. Now Kylo Ren is no Dooku, but no way in hell would Rey compare to Anakin at that stage. Her midi-chlorian or whatever count must be through the roof? Same with Finn. How can he hope to even hold his ground for two seconds against a trained lightsaber user? The anti-lightsaber Stormtrooper made no sense. If the Jedi have been gone for years, why even bring such a weapon when everyone is using blasters (which have range)? Also, anyone else thought they really had this anime-Goku-I-CANT-LOSE! moment where Rey suddenly starts winning the fight? All that said it was still a joy to watch and I can't wait to see the next part, but I do hope they look a little better at the plot holes and hopefully mimic the previous installments a little less. We do NOT need for the next part: Another Death Star or similar doomsday weapon that blows up planets. A lightsaber duel where one side is completely untrained and still somehow pulls a Goku-esque win. See only the Resistance/First Order and see nothing else of the galaxy or the New Republic. The same old bad guy Stormtroopers vs the heroes. Can we please have some good troopers next time? | ||
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
Pros: Ren had the guts to kill his father which still makes him weak. ren's force usage was also good throughout the movie until he discarded it in combat. They used the original cast The emperor illumination / that huge figure they went to was amazing...but his guidance and trust in ren was garbage. The movie was actually hilarious. I love how they still showed how useful R2D2 was, love the banter between him and C3P0, it was good as always. The new droid is a great introduction to the team and cast, i really look forward to seeing what that little guy is capable of in the future. Cons: No hand chopping dismemberment fetish...boo The cliche way they took out the deathplanet/star w/e it is, was a rip off of one of the first 3 movies. they resistance just "HAPPENED" to have the layout and architecture for no apparent reason and the inhabitants of the actual place seemed entirely barren. taking out 2-3 storm troopers at the base lead to them gaining access to the officer or general guarding the shield deactivation and they just happened to threaten her into pushing the button is lame. what happened to the type of bad guys who'd rather die for their cause than compromising with the enemy? classic Disney watering down the series. the last 3 movies would never allow such a scenario to even be plausible. Finn being a stormtrooper = wtf? how did he even get into the position to be allowed to be a storm trooper? the guy is obviously not killing anyone and hesitates on the battlefield, i'm not sure who did the recruiting but that guy wouldn't make it into any type of recruitment war agency with that type of hesitation or personality kylo Ren being in the same position as vader is just absurd. The guy was mentally weak and was promoted off the merits of his relationship with him being hansolo's son which is also bull. The darkside being completely oblivious to hansolo's actual combat capabilities and giving his son a position in their ranks is also completely unbelievable. the guy was a fucking smuggler at best, and a hopeless romantic at worst, his son was never going to amount to much. yeah han had the falcon, and yes he could shoot a gun but storm troopers back then missed every shot his capabilities are close to zilch. i personally don't mind rey being the next jedi trained under luke, it panders to the feminist movement which is clearly what this era is about, but outside of this she was seen in the beginning to be more of a level headed survivalist so it makes sense she has the capabilities to be a warrior. but the part that irked me the most was when rey was actually captured and ren was incapable of actually subduing her with his force. what utter horseshit, she was strapped down with no awareness she had the capabilities of the force, but her awakening suddenly just happened to overpower all of ren's force with all the experience he has had training with it? what garbage. Ren was really only a threat with his force in the entire movie the guy would just appear and then with his force subdued people but when he faces a girl who is strapped down and has no experience with it, he's suddenly overwhelmed? not only is he overwhelmed by her awakening she then pushes him back into the recesses of his own mind and plants the seed of doubt in him where he's utterly a nervous anxious reck. this must be some dragonball z writing at it's best. Ren fighting finn with no saber training and it took him so long to beat him which is also bull. Finn had only training with a gun but suddenly when he's given a saber he's able to be on par with a guy who's trained in the force and lightsaber. same thing for rey when she fought ren, what's even more appalling is when ren just so happens to discard the ability to abuse the force in his fight against rey and finn....just wtf? even vader in the first or 2nd movie was abusing their force abilities to gain an upperhand in combat but the guy just happens to say fuck it? he was only good at using the force.... Luke not actually talking as a cliffhanger is....who's idea? i mean the whole point of that movie was to find luke and to show the next jedi awakening. the guy just standing there for 10 seconds with little to no interaction when the entire plot is revolved around finding him is lol...i mean cmon give us some screen time i'm afraid the real actor won't live long enough until the last 2 movies is produced They have a map of the galaxy and know every piece located except one piece...they couldn't send drones and just locate the last remaining inhabitants in that region? they really just had to wait until the droid paired the map with r2d2? i mean in movie 2 or 3, they showed the ice base in which luke was hidden on and they were discovered by the same method.... They clearly invested more CGI in the last 3 movies than they did this one. You see very little storm troopers, very little population in any place, the bad guys aren't even scheming anything that would make you question at any point if the protagonist could win. it's just bad disney writing that panders to the children. it's sad but the bad guys were all estrogen dominated males, who really had no incentive to be bad guys. based on how much the entire cast was actually paid, disney is being super prudent and cheap with it's budget. not sure why they would spend so much acquiring the franchise if they were still going to be cheap in the production. On December 29 2015 07:17 Thezzy wrote: So, having just seen it in IMAX 3D. First off, seeing it in said IMAX 3D and seeing the Star Wars story intro roll with the music did generate some goosebumps and it was a joy to watch. i'm surprised we held generally the same opinion about the movie. i saw it in IMAX-3D as well, this movie does not live up to the last 3, and anyone who really doesn't see that is either braindead or doesn't know a thing about good writing. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22519 Posts
On December 29 2015 05:25 Volband wrote: I don't see Rey ever being on the dark side. Anakin was already a self-righteous asshole at the age of Rey's, and Luke will be the best Jedi master she could've wished for. Luke already proved he can use the power of the dark side while remaining the light side. Finn on the other hand... he seems to be the most emotional protagonist in the new trilogy, and the whole movie started with him struggling. He has tons of reasons to take revenge, and he might be Force-sensitive as well. Luke's teachings didn't help Kaylo resist the dark side. No reason to think it would help Rey. | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
I just watched the movie today. I was never a Star Wars fan to begin with, I did watch the original trillogy and thought of them as very fun movies, but if u ask me about Sci-Fi I'm more connecting to The Martian style to Mass Effect trillogy (which was my personal Star Wars) and less to the space fantasy nonsense style. TFA is a fun movie, I liked Rey, Kylo Ren was horrible after he lifted the mask, BB8 is a fun little thingy. There were plot holes and cliches, but if u don't try to overthink it you will enjoy it. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
The Skywalkers are a force of nature and whatever side wields them the best wins. Assuming Rey is also a Skywalker we are going to have two Skywalkers on both sides of the force on pretty much equal footing. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Maybe I watched the original movies too many times but this really felt like a polished homage to the original trilogy, rather than the beginning of an epic story itself. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12249 Posts
On December 29 2015 07:22 saocyn wrote: Finn being a stormtrooper = wtf? how did he even get into the position to be allowed to be a storm trooper? the guy is obviously not killing anyone and hesitates on the battlefield, i'm not sure who did the recruiting but that guy wouldn't make it into any type of recruitment war agency with that type of hesitation or personality They referenced this in the movie, but all Stormtroopers are clones (the same ones that began the Clone Wars). That's why Finn doesn't have a name, he has a designation. Clones who exhibit individualist tendencies are taken for reeducation, but Finn had never stepped out of line before. The stark realization of what he was being forced to do at the village instantly jilted him into rebelling, but he was clever about it and chose to plan escape rather than cause internal strife within the First Order. kylo Ren being in the same position as vader is just absurd. The guy was mentally weak and was promoted off the merits of his relationship with him being hansolo's son which is also bull. The darkside being completely oblivious to hansolo's actual combat capabilities and giving his son a position in their ranks is also completely unbelievable. the guy was a fucking smuggler at best, and a hopeless romantic at worst, his son was never going to amount to much. yeah han had the falcon, and yes he could shoot a gun but storm troopers back then missed every shot his capabilities are close to zilch. It is assumed that Snoke is a Sith and that Kylo Ren is his apprentice since he is the one training him, but we don't know Snoke's history, which is key to figuring out his motivations. It could be that he is looking for literally any Dark Jedi to become his apprentice, it could be that he intends to use Kylo Ren as a pawn, it could be that he has vast reach and influence but lacked a local enforcer trained in the Force, there are too many unanswered questions. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 29 2015 08:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: They referenced this in the movie, but all Stormtroopers are clones (the same ones that began the Clone Wars). No they're not -- the exact opposite was said in the movie. Finn was taken away from his family very early on in his life, and Kylo Ren tells Hux at one point that perhaps clone troopers would be more efficient than his troops. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On December 29 2015 08:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: They referenced this in the movie, but all Stormtroopers are clones (the same ones that began the Clone Wars). That's why Finn doesn't have a name, he has a designation. Clones who exhibit individualist tendencies are taken for reeducation, but Finn had never stepped out of line before. The stark realization of what he was being forced to do at the village instantly jilted him into rebelling, but he was clever about it and chose to plan escape rather than cause internal strife within the First Order. Actually I am pretty sure they said in the movie that Finn (and the other Stormtroopers) are not clones. When discussing the desertion of Finn one of the leaders said something like "we should rather use clones instead". And Finn later said he and others were taken very early from their families. | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On December 29 2015 08:00 B.I.G. wrote: I really like how this movie gave me a different understanding of the star wars story so far. It's about the curse of the Skywalker bloodline. They are not supposed to bring balance to the force, they ARE the balance. Skywalkers are doomed to always be torn between light and dark, being equally attracted to both. Whatever side they choose ends up on top sooner or later. It even puts the Anakin being a force baby into perspective. His 'father's' bloodline, being the force, represents the ultimate neutrality. Having a sweet mother and being found by the good guys first tips the scales a bit at start but thats it. I don't think he ever was destined to be good per se. The Skywalkers are a force of nature and whatever side wields them the best wins. Assuming Rey is also a Skywalker we are going to have two Skywalkers on both sides of the force on pretty much equal footing. Eh, I think Anakin alone pretty clearly fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both the Sith and the Jedi Order. | ||
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
On December 29 2015 08:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: They referenced this in the movie, but all Stormtroopers are clones (the same ones that began the Clone Wars). That's why Finn doesn't have a name, he has a designation. Clones who exhibit individualist tendencies are taken for reeducation, but Finn had never stepped out of line before. The stark realization of what he was being forced to do at the village instantly jilted him into rebelling, but he was clever about it and chose to plan escape rather than cause internal strife within the First Order. It is assumed that Snoke is a Sith and that Kylo Ren is his apprentice since he is the one training him, but we don't know Snoke's history, which is key to figuring out his motivations. It could be that he is looking for literally any Dark Jedi to become his apprentice, it could be that he intends to use Kylo Ren as a pawn, it could be that he has vast reach and influence but lacked a local enforcer trained in the Force, there are too many unanswered questions. Ok Good point, i'll agree on the finn thing, as that is something i probably missed and you caught, thanks for the explanation. They are very vague on who is a sith and who isn't. And in this movie the word isn't even spoken or alluded to, not the way it was introduced in the phantom menace with the concept of "there can only be 2 siths" I hope for all our sakes Kylo ren is used as a pawn for some grand scheme as i have very little faith in the writing of disney plots. The master and apprentice concept has generally been pretty consistent throughout all of starwars where the apprentice is usually very good on both sides. they would have to really diverge from this pattern for kylo ren to be this bad. The only issue i'm having here with your explanation which is that for Snoke to be a sith (master) his apprentice would also have to be a Sith. And as we've seen with Palpatine, he chooses good apprentices or underlings. Count dooku, Anakin, Darth Maul, all those guys were the absolute cream of the crop. i have a hard time seeing how kylo ren fits into any foreseeable scheme. and i was under the impression that palpatine was the sith lord / master? doesn't this discredit the concept of there can only be 2 siths? And perhaps this may be side tracking the conversation of this movie at hand but i was unsure if this was ever followed up on. In Revenge of the sith AT the very end yoda talks to obiwan about Quai gon jin discovering the secrets of immortality and that yoda was going to teach obiwan how to communicate with the dead. Then it's shown in movie 4 (technically movie 1) how he indeed died to vader. Did the guy never do his training to obtain it? i know this may seem like a really farout prediction, i think if there was anything they introduced in the earlier movies that could be brought in the future, this concept of immortality is too good not to be used. perhaps snoke knew kylo was weak but loyal, sent him to die so he could come back with the secret, this is so far the only thing i can think up for why he was so bad. | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
Edit: Also, I'm almost certain that you are wrong about Fin being a clone. They phased out the clone troopers at the end of the clone wars and transitioned to storm troopers. I'm pretty sure there was a scene where Ren or one of upper "bad guys" referenced going back to the clones after the storm troopers failures. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On December 29 2015 04:22 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: I rather see Rey and Kylo together on the dark side. But then who's going to fight them? Luke - Mark Hamill is too old Finn - nothing suggests he's particularly talented so it'd be pretty awkward for him to be a Jedi, probably not Force sensitive Poe - probably not Force sensitive, was to die in the original script so probably not central to story New character - why start a trilogy and not have your main hero in the first film? I can't think of any satisfying protagonists who could be force sensitive so if they join forces we'd have to lose the lightsaber duels and just kill them with overwhelming force (small f) or in space combat. Which would suck. Basically, Rey and Kylo might be on the same side for a short time (end of VIII to end of IX), but if Rey doesn't revert back to the light then Kylo has to turn from the dark so that we can have a concluding lightsaber duel. I think that'd be pretty sweet. Or another possibility would be Rey and Kylo are both dark side but end up fighting each other for control of the galaxy before the winner (would have to be Rey) gets shot by Finn. Something like that. tl;dr: Kylo is either going to die in XIII or fight Rey in IX. No way they finish on the same team. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On December 29 2015 07:36 Gorsameth wrote: Luke's teachings didn't help Kaylo resist the dark side. No reason to think it would help Rey. Ren somehow failed despite having the most famous and powerful relatives in the galaxy. Rey was leading a pretty shitty life, yet she was full of positive energy and kindness. I mean, if they really want to turn her to the dark side and still make it believable, then pretty much the entire next episode have to be about setting it up, and then finalize it in episode IX. On December 29 2015 09:16 Chewbacca. wrote: Edit: Also, I'm almost certain that you are wrong about Fin being a clone. They phased out the clone troopers at the end of the clone wars and transitioned to storm troopers. I'm pretty sure there was a scene where Ren or one of upper "bad guys" referenced going back to the clones after the storm troopers failures. Fin is not a clone. There was even a hologram about him when he was just a child. Who clones children instead of grown ups? There was also a female stormtrooper reporting to Ren, which makes this whole clone debate kinda pointless. There is a clone army, but they did not use it in this episode. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
Why does this janitor, who at first felt traumatized about his dead comrade as a storm trooper, a few days later have no qualms about killing his former comrades. At no point does he show remorse. Yeah ok | ||
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