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On October 03 2014 00:59 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 16:42 starimk wrote:On October 02 2014 15:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 14:52 Foblos wrote:On September 30 2014 14:04 Brobe wrote:Think about this, when they broke sparky sparky boom lady out of the ice prison they fought against Korra's dad and Zuko. Their goal was to kill world leaders. They incapacitated the Fire Lord and a Water Tribe Chief then drove off in a truck. They should have just killed them both. As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. I don't think so. Why end the Avatar cycle? The Avatar was pretty popular with just about everyone. I don't think they were so much concerned with the "popular" opinion as they were with implementing their vision of balance to the world. Remember that Zaheer thought Wan separating Vaatu and Raava was foolish; he would much rather humanity remain in its primordial state as Lion Turtle bums than as the predominant species on Earth. In his skewed vision, the truest freedom would be to become spiritually enlightened as he did and be emotionally detached from earthly affiliations to nationality, etc. In that sense the Avatar is arguably the greatest threat to his vision, as the Avatar is probably the world's greatest peacekeeping and nation-protecting agent. With regards to Zuko and Tonraq, you could make an argument that 1)Zuko was not directly a world leader at that point, only a former Fire Lord; 2)Zaheer didn't realize that Tonraq was the current Southern Water Tribe leader at that point due to 13 years of missing information. In any case it seems their goal was to kidnap Korra first from the very beginning; they don't really start targeting world leaders until they start using them as leverage to get Korra to turn herself over. They probably figured that once Korra was gone, the ensuing chaos would make it much easier to coordinate an assault against the world leaders simultaneously. If a group wanted to kill world leaders, I'd imagine one of the first things they'd do is to figure out who the world leaders were. That said my point still stands. Killing the Avatar was never the group's only goal.
But their goal wasn't to kill world leaders, it was to remove governance and create anarchy.
The Southern Watertribe is...well, tribal in culture. They have a council of elders, who appoint a chief. A chief who is also supposed to lead their tribe into war...which, you know, tends to lead to dead chiefs from time-to-time. Killing Tonraq wouldn't have done very much.
And killing Zuko would've been just as pointless. He's like 90 or something, the world already expects him to keel over and die any moment. His daughter is the Fire Lord, and she has a perfectly capable son who's also a general (unlike the Earth Queen, who had no direct successor, and apparently had an incompetent great nephew next in line). If they killed Zuko, it would mean absolutely nothing to the Fire Nation...except piss them off, and probably have the full force of the army bearing down on them before they accomplished a single goal.
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I don't think killing the Earth Queen was really the plan either. It just happened to work out that way.
+ Show Spoiler +Next episode will probably center around Korra. Wish they released two at once for the premiere, this really isn't enough.
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Netherlands1788 Posts
Twenty two minutes, why... these have to have been the fastest twenty two minutes of my life.
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Gotta say, after seeing today's episode:
+ Show Spoiler +Korra's still recovering from her poisoning, her movements seemed sluggish and the bending seemed poor, when compared to her movements before the poisoning. Considering she was basically given acute mercury poisoning and a very sudden removal of all mercury in her body, when compared to real life mercury poisoning/recovery a similar recovery time table of 3 years seems about right for her movements/condition.
Kuvira is definitely going for a "unity by force" motive, probably going to try and get Republic City after she gets the rest of the Earth Kingdom states to pledge loyalty to her. The tension between Opal and Bolin seems a bit force, but understandable. Mako's getting the shit end of the stick (again), and Asami is definitely trying to give off a look of an older, more mature/conservative woman (probably to play in line with all the politics of the City).
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On October 04 2014 03:37 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 00:59 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 16:42 starimk wrote:On October 02 2014 15:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 14:52 Foblos wrote:On September 30 2014 14:04 Brobe wrote:Think about this, when they broke sparky sparky boom lady out of the ice prison they fought against Korra's dad and Zuko. Their goal was to kill world leaders. They incapacitated the Fire Lord and a Water Tribe Chief then drove off in a truck. They should have just killed them both. As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. I don't think so. Why end the Avatar cycle? The Avatar was pretty popular with just about everyone. I don't think they were so much concerned with the "popular" opinion as they were with implementing their vision of balance to the world. Remember that Zaheer thought Wan separating Vaatu and Raava was foolish; he would much rather humanity remain in its primordial state as Lion Turtle bums than as the predominant species on Earth. In his skewed vision, the truest freedom would be to become spiritually enlightened as he did and be emotionally detached from earthly affiliations to nationality, etc. In that sense the Avatar is arguably the greatest threat to his vision, as the Avatar is probably the world's greatest peacekeeping and nation-protecting agent. With regards to Zuko and Tonraq, you could make an argument that 1)Zuko was not directly a world leader at that point, only a former Fire Lord; 2)Zaheer didn't realize that Tonraq was the current Southern Water Tribe leader at that point due to 13 years of missing information. In any case it seems their goal was to kidnap Korra first from the very beginning; they don't really start targeting world leaders until they start using them as leverage to get Korra to turn herself over. They probably figured that once Korra was gone, the ensuing chaos would make it much easier to coordinate an assault against the world leaders simultaneously. If a group wanted to kill world leaders, I'd imagine one of the first things they'd do is to figure out who the world leaders were. That said my point still stands. Killing the Avatar was never the group's only goal. On October 02 2014 20:36 blade55555 wrote:On October 02 2014 15:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 14:52 Foblos wrote:On September 30 2014 14:04 Brobe wrote:Think about this, when they broke sparky sparky boom lady out of the ice prison they fought against Korra's dad and Zuko. Their goal was to kill world leaders. They incapacitated the Fire Lord and a Water Tribe Chief then drove off in a truck. They should have just killed them both. As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. I don't think so. Why end the Avatar cycle? The Avatar was pretty popular with just about everyone. Popular and had a lot of haters as well as people who loved the avatar of course. But Ending the cycle was so that the avatar could never interfere again. The world remained peaceful through pretty much every avatar as any aggressive move (like sozin during roku's time) the avatar just shuts them down. Without the avatar that would no longer happen and their version of "chaos" could ensure as they would also be able to kill off all the leaders without having to worry about their biggest threat (the avatar). Made complete sense. But why make it their only goal? If their original plan was to kill the Avatar and then sit by idly, then the red lotus wouldn't change the world in their vision. It accomplishes nothing. Who said it was their only goal? That was their first main goal. Did you watch all of season 3 or just forget? They were originally going to assassinate the president, but decided they would do it later to go and get korra out of the way (no one knew where the red lotus members were at the time). And again as previously stated the Avatar is the biggest threat to them killing off all the world leaders (which is their goal after korra). Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 03:36 Paperplane wrote:
So suddenly episode one appears. It's so typical of the Korra series, episodes are just randomly dumped online with so little advertising or hype building. Um we have known about it for a month  . Really good episode :D
As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world.
As for the part about whether I watched the episodes, what kind of asshole asks such a loaded question? I obviously have, or why else would I be commenting here in such depth. Have you graduated elementary school?
Tonraq's the closest thing to a leader the south has.
And while Zuko may not be a head of state, the twins of the North most certainly were.
+ Show Spoiler +Kuvira's fight reminds me of the opening fight of Sword of the stranger where they establish the strength of a villain by her fighting multiple opponents.
I'm really interested in Korra's story. I don't care about the rest of the story at the moment.
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On October 04 2014 14:40 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 03:37 blade55555 wrote:On October 03 2014 00:59 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 16:42 starimk wrote:On October 02 2014 15:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 14:52 Foblos wrote:On September 30 2014 14:04 Brobe wrote:Think about this, when they broke sparky sparky boom lady out of the ice prison they fought against Korra's dad and Zuko. Their goal was to kill world leaders. They incapacitated the Fire Lord and a Water Tribe Chief then drove off in a truck. They should have just killed them both. As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. I don't think so. Why end the Avatar cycle? The Avatar was pretty popular with just about everyone. I don't think they were so much concerned with the "popular" opinion as they were with implementing their vision of balance to the world. Remember that Zaheer thought Wan separating Vaatu and Raava was foolish; he would much rather humanity remain in its primordial state as Lion Turtle bums than as the predominant species on Earth. In his skewed vision, the truest freedom would be to become spiritually enlightened as he did and be emotionally detached from earthly affiliations to nationality, etc. In that sense the Avatar is arguably the greatest threat to his vision, as the Avatar is probably the world's greatest peacekeeping and nation-protecting agent. With regards to Zuko and Tonraq, you could make an argument that 1)Zuko was not directly a world leader at that point, only a former Fire Lord; 2)Zaheer didn't realize that Tonraq was the current Southern Water Tribe leader at that point due to 13 years of missing information. In any case it seems their goal was to kidnap Korra first from the very beginning; they don't really start targeting world leaders until they start using them as leverage to get Korra to turn herself over. They probably figured that once Korra was gone, the ensuing chaos would make it much easier to coordinate an assault against the world leaders simultaneously. If a group wanted to kill world leaders, I'd imagine one of the first things they'd do is to figure out who the world leaders were. That said my point still stands. Killing the Avatar was never the group's only goal. On October 02 2014 20:36 blade55555 wrote:On October 02 2014 15:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 02 2014 14:52 Foblos wrote:On September 30 2014 14:04 Brobe wrote:Think about this, when they broke sparky sparky boom lady out of the ice prison they fought against Korra's dad and Zuko. Their goal was to kill world leaders. They incapacitated the Fire Lord and a Water Tribe Chief then drove off in a truck. They should have just killed them both. As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. I don't think so. Why end the Avatar cycle? The Avatar was pretty popular with just about everyone. Popular and had a lot of haters as well as people who loved the avatar of course. But Ending the cycle was so that the avatar could never interfere again. The world remained peaceful through pretty much every avatar as any aggressive move (like sozin during roku's time) the avatar just shuts them down. Without the avatar that would no longer happen and their version of "chaos" could ensure as they would also be able to kill off all the leaders without having to worry about their biggest threat (the avatar). Made complete sense. But why make it their only goal? If their original plan was to kill the Avatar and then sit by idly, then the red lotus wouldn't change the world in their vision. It accomplishes nothing. Who said it was their only goal? That was their first main goal. Did you watch all of season 3 or just forget? They were originally going to assassinate the president, but decided they would do it later to go and get korra out of the way (no one knew where the red lotus members were at the time). And again as previously stated the Avatar is the biggest threat to them killing off all the world leaders (which is their goal after korra). On October 04 2014 03:36 Paperplane wrote:
So suddenly episode one appears. It's so typical of the Korra series, episodes are just randomly dumped online with so little advertising or hype building. Um we have known about it for a month . Really good episode :D Show nested quote +As I understand it their goal was simply to end the avatar cycle. Once they all got bending they started to dream bigger and saw a "free" world. As for the part about whether I watched the episodes, what kind of asshole asks such a loaded question? I obviously have, or why else would I be commenting here in such depth. Have you graduated elementary school? Tonraq's the closest thing to a leader the south has. And while Zuko may not be a head of state, the twins of the North most certainly were. + Show Spoiler +Kuvira's fight reminds me of the opening fight of Sword of the stranger where they establish the strength of a villain by her fighting multiple opponents.
I'm really interested in Korra's story. I don't care about the rest of the story at the moment.
They were also opposed to thoughtless killing. At least, Zaheer was. Being the "closest thing to a leader" is fairly moot if killing Tonraq doesn't lead to the desired results.
The Northern Tribe is also fairly tribal in culture as well. Sure, the chief is decided through hereditary succession, but you still had old guys like Pakku who did things contrary to the chief by virtue of being...well, old.
Really, you just have to look at the difference in protection to see how important each "head of state" is to the nation. Tonraq goes to war and frequently travels (and the chief during TLAB was out at sea for like half a decade or something). Unalaq, Desna and Esna all travel south on a single ship (okay, with a hidden fleet, but that was a surprise) and travel without a single guard around.
Then you have the Earth King/Queen who never leave the palace and are guarded 24/7 by Dai Li. Even the Fire Lord was the same...Ozai never left his palace until the end of the show, but only after shoving the crown to Azula and forcing her to turtle up.
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On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender
Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military.
The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her.
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On October 05 2014 12:37 Valiver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her.
I got the impression that it wasn't really a secret thing. I mean, she's doing it in the open and as far as I could tell they were trying to show that after the chaos following the death of the earth queen there were two main factions trying to gain power and restore order; the royal line and Kovira
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On October 05 2014 14:14 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 12:37 Valiver wrote:On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her. I got the impression that it wasn't really a secret thing. I mean, she's doing it in the open and as far as I could tell they were trying to show that after the chaos following the death of the earth queen there were two main factions trying to gain power and restore order; the royal line and Kovira
Speaking of the royal line, what ever happened to the Dai Li? Did they just vanish because the monarchy fell apart?
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Well yeah, especially considering Varrek works for Kuvira now... could be some shenanigans afoot.
Kuvira does seem pretty badass though... I'm relieved.
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On October 05 2014 14:28 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 14:14 Foblos wrote:On October 05 2014 12:37 Valiver wrote:On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her. I got the impression that it wasn't really a secret thing. I mean, she's doing it in the open and as far as I could tell they were trying to show that after the chaos following the death of the earth queen there were two main factions trying to gain power and restore order; the royal line and Kovira Speaking of the royal line, what ever happened to the Dai Li? Did they just vanish because the monarchy fell apart?
Maybe they were the ones restoring order during the riots and stuff to make it safe enough for the earth prince to come back?
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On October 05 2014 14:14 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 12:37 Valiver wrote:On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her. I got the impression that it wasn't really a secret thing. I mean, she's doing it in the open and as far as I could tell they were trying to show that after the chaos following the death of the earth queen there were two main factions trying to gain power and restore order; the royal line and Kovira
Well, I think it's clear that the operation itself (the union) isn't secret. But I got the impression that the way how she is doing it isn't all clear to everyone and rumors were just spreading lately. I would really like to know how Kuvira got such a powerful position. And I would also like to know how she became so obnoxious. She is nothing like the guard I remember from book 3. She seemed to be very kind.
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On October 05 2014 15:56 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 14:28 LegalLord wrote:On October 05 2014 14:14 Foblos wrote:On October 05 2014 12:37 Valiver wrote:On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. The important part is that her military is secretly attacking earth kingdom towns to force them to pledge loyalty to her. I got the impression that it wasn't really a secret thing. I mean, she's doing it in the open and as far as I could tell they were trying to show that after the chaos following the death of the earth queen there were two main factions trying to gain power and restore order; the royal line and Kovira Speaking of the royal line, what ever happened to the Dai Li? Did they just vanish because the monarchy fell apart? Maybe they were the ones restoring order during the riots and stuff to make it safe enough for the earth prince to come back?
Well they specifically mentioned that Kuvira was clearing the bandits, so I'm not sure about that.
Oh and as an interesting note, the text on the banners says: All hail Queen Kuvira.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military.
I am kind of hoping she isn't the one hiring the bandits. But probably is.
But I can see an explanation for the bandits having a plane, don't forget that after the queen died a bunch of people were stealing air ships so why not planes?
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On October 06 2014 03:17 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. I am kind of hoping she isn't the one hiring the bandits. But probably is. But I can see an explanation for the bandits having a plane, don't forget that after the queen died a bunch of people were stealing air ships so why not planes?
At any rate, Kuvira is definitely the villain. Her goons wore masks, and helmets that looked exactly like German helmets from WW2. They were almost identical to these guys from Jin-Roh:
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On October 06 2014 04:21 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 03:17 blade55555 wrote:On October 05 2014 12:02 Foblos wrote:On October 04 2014 02:31 Lorning wrote:On October 04 2014 02:29 sung_moon wrote:On October 04 2014 02:14 Ilikestarcraft wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Makes you wonder if Kuvira hired thugs to steal from the city / steal the food that Opal and Kai got. + Show Spoiler +Was thinking exact same thing. Random bandits all of a sudden get a plane and are able to pilot it/fight an airbender in the friggen air? Lol Also this + Show Spoiler +From /r/TheLastAirbender Remember when she "gave them the chance to reform their lives?"She made them part of her military. I am kind of hoping she isn't the one hiring the bandits. But probably is. But I can see an explanation for the bandits having a plane, don't forget that after the queen died a bunch of people were stealing air ships so why not planes? At any rate, Kuvira is definitely the villain. Her goons wore masks, and helmets that looked exactly like German helmets from WW2. They were almost identical to these guys from Jin-Roh:
not sure why but the picture doesnt load for me. But the way they put her forward kind of makes it clear she is the villain - I dont see any other reason to do the fight vs the bandits, even if they are kind of weak, she beat them 10v1 or something while somewhere else the heroine Korra gets beaten by a noname earthbender in earthbending, which is probably the bending she needs most practice against to fight Kuvira, even if Kuvira almost only bends metal (which Korra did last season too iirc)
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Oh Bolin why you so stupid working for the bad girl? That girl reeks of dictatorship and threatens bandits to have their hands cut off by a train. Did you learn nothing those past 3 seasons?
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On October 06 2014 08:18 xpldngmn wrote:
Oh Bolin why you so stupid working for the bad girl? That girl reeks of dictatorship and threatens bandits to have their hands cut off by a train. Did you learn nothing those past 3 seasons?
It's better than what he was doing before.
Helping clear the Earth Kingdom of bandits (even if for the purpose of helping a strong-armed leader) is better than living on the streets, which is what he was doing right before the start of all other three seasons.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5RdAi8a.png)
![[image loading]](http://animedepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jin-Roh-The_Wolf_Brigade_wallpaper-620x350.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dnAG1Q2.jpg)
