EPTBut at leats show littlefinger basically had nothing after getting Sansa out of KL.
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 723
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
But at leats show littlefinger basically had nothing after getting Sansa out of KL. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 31 2017 00:53 karazax wrote: Joffrey was the one who tried to kill Bran in the books because he heard Robert say it would be kinder to put the crippled Bran out of his misery when he was drunk and he wanted to impress his father. There is no way in hell it was Joffery. It was either LF or Mance. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 31 2017 03:01 Cricketer12 wrote: There is no way in hell it was Joffery. It was either LF or Mance. If anything, it was LF doing it and convincing Joffrey to take credit. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 31 2017 03:19 Plansix wrote: If anything, it was LF doing it and convincing Joffrey to take credit. Nah that would mean Joffrey would know, way too big of a risk | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Do we the readers, after having read aGoT and aCoK, have enough information to plausibly be able to reason out who was behind the assassination plot against Bran? GRRM: There's a couple of additional things to be revealed in SOS... but I think the answer could be worked out from the first two books alone, yes... though of course, =I've= known the truth all along, so in some ways it's hard for me to judge. Based on this response and then two different POV characters in SOS coming to the same conclusion, Joffrey is the culprit. Did Littlefinger influence Joffrey to try and kill Bran? GRRM: Well, Littlefinger did have a certain hidden influence over Joff... but he was not at Winterfell, and that needs to be remembered. Keep in mind that the dagger only gets found if the assassination attempt is unsuccessful. Littlefinger would have no idea that Bran didn't fall in a climbing accident, and even if he some how did know what Bran saw, it would be better to keep him alive at any cost and hope he can just tell people that Jaime pushed him. So his plan is to hire an assassin and give him a dagger that isn't really owned by the Lannisters in an attempt to frame them, which only works if the assassin is caught? There is no reason for Littlefinger to target Bran over any other Stark. The dagger belonging to Tyrion was a lie anyway, so regardless of what weapon was used he could have come up with a similar lie. If Littlefinger was behind it, it would be smarter to use a dagger that actually belonged to Tyrion. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Interestingly SoS is also when you find out Mance went south of the wall with a bag of silver :D but that theory seems really tenuous and nonsensical. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 31 2017 04:46 karazax wrote: Comments from GRRM on the dagger: Do we the readers, after having read aGoT and aCoK, have enough information to plausibly be able to reason out who was behind the assassination plot against Bran? GRRM: There's a couple of additional things to be revealed in SOS... but I think the answer could be worked out from the first two books alone, yes... though of course, =I've= known the truth all along, so in some ways it's hard for me to judge. Based on this response and then two different POV characters in SOS coming to the same conclusion, Joffrey is the culprit. Did Littlefinger influence Joffrey to try and kill Bran? GRRM: Well, Littlefinger did have a certain hidden influence over Joff... but he was not at Winterfell, and that needs to be remembered. Keep in mind that the dagger only gets found if the assassination attempt is unsuccessful. Littlefinger would have no idea that Bran didn't fall in a climbing accident, and even if he some how did know what Bran saw, it would be better to keep him alive at any cost and hope he can just tell people that Jaime pushed him. So his plan is to hire an assassin and give him a dagger that isn't really owned by the Lannisters in an attempt to frame them, which only works if the assassin is caught? There is no reason for Littlefinger to target Bran over any other Stark. The dagger belonging to Tyrion was a lie anyway, so regardless of what weapon was used he could have come up with a similar lie. If Littlefinger was behind it, it would be smarter to use a dagger that actually belonged to Tyrion. Joff makes no sense. Tyrion concludes it's joff because he's vicious and he misremembers something he said about how bran should die when really he meant it in regards to killing Summer. Jaime concludes it's joff because he's looking for affection. He looks for a culprit and after cersei says something he figure joff fits what he's looking for. It doesn't add up. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
On August 31 2017 05:00 Logo wrote: What exactly is Littlefinger's motivation to lie in this situation by the way? Like if the dagger was Robert's that's even worse than it being a Lannister dagger and would still pit the houses against each other. he already sent a letter (made from lysa) to say that it was the lannisters who killed Jon so now, he says that tyrion (another lannister) tried to kill bran it just put more hate from starks toward lannisters On August 31 2017 05:00 Cricketer12 wrote: Joff makes no sense. Tyrion concludes it's joff because he's vicious and he misremembers something he said about how bran should die when really he meant it in regards to killing Summer. Jaime concludes it's joff because he's looking for affection. He looks for a culprit and after cersei says something he figure joff fits what he's looking for. It doesn't add up. it's really obvious when joff receives his valyrian steel sword and the comment he makes about it | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
Even if he's not lying about having using valyrian steel before, you have to assume he's never seen/used it until the start of the series, which is kind of hard to believe since he's the heir to the throne, there's tons of people who could've shown him (like Robert or Ilyn) | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
It also doesn't make too much sense. Bran is a cripple, a rusty kitchen knife or bare hands would have done just as well if it was only about killing Bran. But it could intentionally make not too much sense to make it an interesting reading point even if it ultimately doesn't go anywhere more than Joffery is a cruel idiot. | ||
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 31 2017 06:10 Yhamm wrote: it's how he looked embarassed when Tyrion makes his comment about how he already know about valyrian steel. for few seconds he didn't know what to say and thats what make it more obvious compared to the other ppl who were there (at winterfell) Do you honestly think Joffrey is smart enough to recognize the implications of what he said? | ||
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
On August 31 2017 06:14 Cricketer12 wrote: Do you honestly think Joffrey is smart enough to recognize the implications of what he said? yes? he's not totally stupid, he's an asshole who thinks he can do whatever he wants because he's the heir of the king (and then the king himself) | ||
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RenSC2
United States1094 Posts
However, I think certain people want to see even deeper plots than really exist. They've been waiting for book 6 for years and have had way too much time to analyze the series. With that much time and plenty of help from discussion groups, they've already reasoned out most of the surprises to the point that they're not surprising. Yet, they still expect well reasoned surprises like they experienced the first time through, so they look for something even deeper and more complex. From that mindset comes guys like Preston Jacobs who put together extremely complex conspiracy theories that don't actually match the level of GRRM's writing. I'd say it's highly likely that Joffrey sent the catspaw and that the mystery has been solved. It's reasonable for Joffrey's character of wanting to impress his dad and not understanding the total dynamics of the situation. When the fallout happened, he realized his dad would not actually be happy about it and never told anyone. LF used the situation to his advantage to further pit 2 powerful houses against each other which was something he was already trying to do. Joffrey had motive, a lack of morals, and the means to execute it in a way that he thought he could get away with it. The mystery doesn't actually have to go any deeper than that and I'd say it's likely that it doesn't. GRRM does nice conspiracies, but most aren't super convoluted and you can figure them out with a little bit of time thinking about them. | ||
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On August 31 2017 20:47 moktira wrote: What are the arguments for it being Mance instead of Joffrey? Other than the fact we learn Mance was in Winterfell. I don't see why would he try to kill Bran or where he got the dagger. He mentioned he brought a bag of silver and we know wildings think greyscale is insta death and need to die. They think it's literally merciful to kill off crippled/diseased children. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I know that the last leaks happened around the time of the first shootings, iirc these haven't started yet for season 8 though. So it's probably just a talented faker, talented as in imitating D&D. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On September 04 2017 23:17 The_Red_Viper wrote: I just read potential season 8 spoilers. I am not sure if it even can be real tbh but it sounded like something D&D would write imo. I know that the last leaks happened around the time of the first shootings, iirc these haven't started yet for season 8 though. So it's probably just a talented faker, talented as in imitating D&D. Yea these ones are probably fake...though I wouldn't be surprised when 2019 rolls around | ||
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