[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 722

On August 30 2017 23:59 brian wrote:
speaking of, stupid question. did we already know LF is the sole beginning for this whole series? he poisoned Jon Arryn? this is still blowing my mind. then he also sent a raven saying it was the lannisters? then tried to kill bran? like what.the.fuck.

On August 31 2017 00:51 Plansix wrote:
This is why the theory that LF has a master plan theory drives me crazy. All of his actions in the series(books and TV show) are the opposite of a plan. The core always is “make a giant mess, try to come better than before”.

At his core, he always came off to be a petty man who wanted outsmart all the people that were more respected than him. And he did it, which is why it was no surprise that he assumed the stark kids would fall for the same tricks.

On August 31 2017 00:53 karazax wrote:


Joffrey was the one who tried to kill Bran in the books because he heard Robert say it would be kinder to put the crippled Bran out of his misery when he was drunk and he wanted to impress his father.

On August 31 2017 00:48 karazax wrote:
The show version of Littlefinger went off the rails when he betrayed the Lannisters for no reason, when they were the ones who legitimized his lordship over Harrenhal, to ally with the Boltons for no personal benefit. The Boltons also betrayed the Lannisters for no reason when it was the Lannisters who made them Warden of the North.. Littlefinger married Sansa to Ramsay, then betrayed the Boltons with no benefit in the whole arrangement for himself. He could have just invaded the north with Sansa and never gotten her raped. Then the murder of her aunt would be justified as saving her from being pushed out the moon door and he saved her from King's Landing, and the other charges are from a crazy kid who wasn't there.

Surely the man who paid off the gold cloaks when betraying Ned would also pay off at least the lords of the vale to insure loyalty? It made little sense that Littlefinger wanted to plot against Arya in the first place. If anything he should have been plotting against Bran, who offered the only "evidence" at the trial which presumes that everyone there accepts everything Bran says as true now without question.

But I'm still trying to figure out what Littlefinger's plan was? He made no effort to marry Sansa or consolidate his power in any way, and instead has lost power and influence steadily since leaving the Vale.

In the context of the show having a trial made sense. What didn't make sense was the whole dog and pony show to make it look like Arya was the one being accused and everyone there accepting the outcome as if they had already pre-discussed what the out come was going to be since Sansa denied him his opportunity to defend himself.

On August 31 2017 01:13 Logo wrote:


It's not a hard fact that Joffrey did it in the book though so there's still time/room for it to change.

On August 31 2017 01:58 TomatoBisque wrote:

Littlefinger still doesn't make sense for it because he had no way of knowing Bran fell. He probably had a man there, sure, but the guy would've had to have a lot of independence to be allowed to try to kill Bran.

That said, the logic Tyrion uses to determine it's Joff doesn't make any sense ("send a dog to kill a wolf" isn't an accurate quote, and Joff didn't give a shit about Bran anyway), and PoV characters tend to be wrong on these kinds of things.

Personally I like the theory that it was Mance.

On August 31 2017 02:06 Logo wrote:


Perhaps, but there is a long amount of time between when Bran falls and when the catspaw shows up. Wiki says it's 8 days after Eddard leaves for King's Landing and Jon doesn't get to see Bran for a fortnite (because he didn't want to when Catelyn was there) and that happens before Eddard leave.

So like it's ~1 month after the accident before the Catspaw shows up and it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to send a Raven to King's Landing explaining the delay in the return trip.

On August 31 2017 00:54 karazax wrote:


No in the books he clearly has a plan and is executing it to gain complete control of the Vale. Only in the show is he more buffoon than master planner.

On August 31 2017 02:08 TomatoBisque wrote:

The dagger still would have had to have been taken before Robert left, and iirc Robert left with Ned

On August 31 2017 02:16 Logo wrote:


Hrm yeah true in some parts, but it's unclear about Robert's possession of the dagger. Jaime mentions he was taunted with it on the day of Joffery's nameday tourney but that's well before a lot of the events of the book and even before John Arryn was poisoned. It's still plausible that Robert had lost the dagger well before the trip and/or that Littlefinger took it to intentionally use as part of his plan to drive a wedge between Lannisters and Starks.

On August 31 2017 02:22 brian wrote:
it's hard for me to buy only in that why would LF want bran dead? certainly he doesn't know how he became crippled. so he ought to have no reason for either keeping him quiet or framing the lannisters for keeping him quiet.

what i mean is jamie and cersei are the only two with the right motive, and they wouldn't exactly go around telling people they want him dead so how would LF know?

On August 31 2017 02:22 brian wrote:
it's hard for me to buy only in that why would LF want bran dead? certainly he doesn't know how he became crippled. so he ought to have no reason for either keeping him quiet or framing the lannisters for keeping him quiet.

what i mean is jamie and cersei are the only two with the right motive, and they wouldn't exactly go around telling people they want him dead so how would LF know?

On August 31 2017 02:23 Plansix wrote:
Convincing Joff to kill Bran is a very Littlefinger thing to do.

On August 31 2017 02:24 TomatoBisque wrote:

LF would want to incite war between the Starks and Lannisters to further his own position in the aftermath.

We know Jaime and Cersei didn't do it because we got their PoV chapters (Jaime suspects Joff in a PoV chapter, Cersei is too smart to use a weapon that could be traced back to her and likely would have told Jaime)


Thing is that LF would have to do it through a pawn since he wasn't there, and at that point why try to have them manipulate Joff? It's unnecessarily convoluted imo

On August 31 2017 02:29 KwarK wrote:
Didn't Joffrey try to kill Bran in an attempt to impress Robert.

On August 31 2017 02:28 brian wrote:

so it's just a coincidence then that the lannisters DO want Bran dead, and LF tries to kill him?

that's what makes it hard for me to believe. why would Bran dying drive a wedge between the starks and lannisters if nobody knows what happened at the window?