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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 12 2015 23:54 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2015 23:51 Hyperbola wrote:What's the big deal? This is what happens in the books at the end, isn't it? + Show Spoiler +Jon warging is only predicted by the community, not confirmed. That said there's a good argument that it's a photoshop.
Selyse killing herself (or being hung) isn't in the book or suggested anywhere.
+ Show Spoiler +Well if his last words were "ghost" then it's pretty much confirmed. I guess it wasn't official but it was pretty apparent. Also who really cares about Selyse? Lol.
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Predictions Episode 10
Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
Stannis marches. --> Hopefully some Winterfell battle. Maybe some scene with Sansa's revenge on Ramsey?
Dany is surrounded by strangers. --> Who are those strangers?
Cersei seeks forgiveness. --> The walk probably same as books. Varys won't kill anyone though(?!).
Jon is challenged. --> Olly will stab. They will keep John's fate open ended. So no big revelations until next season.
Also Arya goes blind.
A quick recap on Tyrion and maybe release of the dragons.
And last scene Dany riding off with her dragon.
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On June 13 2015 00:27 helpman176 wrote:
Predictions Episode 10
Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
Stannis marches. --> Hopefully some Winterfell battle. Maybe some scene with Sansa's revenge on Ramsey?
Dany is surrounded by strangers. --> Who are those strangers?
Cersei seeks forgiveness. --> The walk probably same as books. Varys won't kill anyone though(?!).
Jon is challenged. --> Olly will stab. They will keep John's fate open ended. So no big revelations until next season.
Also Arya goes blind.
A quick recap on Tyrion and maybe release of the dragons.
And last scene Dany riding off with her dragon.
Dany's already ridden off. My guess is the "strangers" are the Khalasar she meets in the books toward the end.
I doubt Olly will be the only one to stab Jon. My thinking is Edd will stab him too.
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There's no way we're going to get the Winterfell battle this season. There isn't nearly enough time for the episode to cover and epic confrontation like that and still do Dany, Jon, Arya, Cersei...
D&D are waiting for Winds of Winter to come out before next season so they make sure that they don't fuck up Stannis' death.
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Stabbing and Walk confirmed Arya most likely to occur Sansa escape as well, Battle o Winterfell teased pretty hard in promo not sure
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So, GRRM wants WoW to come out right before season 6. If he doesn't does this become the anti spoiler thread?
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On June 10 2015 21:58 Plexa wrote:There was a recent Longclaw = Blackfyre theory that piqued my interests the other day. for the curious
Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)?
Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really?
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United States44216 Posts
On June 13 2015 01:48 Acrofales wrote:Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)? Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really?
Blackfyre is the sword of the Targaryen kings. There was a civil war when a bastard Targaryen was given Blackfyre by his father and people followed him as the rightful claimant. And now, hundreds of years later, we have a legitimate Targaryen claiming the throne and potentially a bastard Targaryen wielding Blackfyre. If you don't see how that neatly works into the story then I can't help you.
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On June 13 2015 01:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 01:48 Acrofales wrote:On June 10 2015 21:58 Plexa wrote:There was a recent Longclaw = Blackfyre theory that piqued my interests the other day. for the curious Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)? Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really? Blackfyre is the sword of the Targaryen kings. There was a civil war when a bastard Targaryen was given Blackfyre by his father and people followed him as the rightful claimant. And now, hundreds of years later, we have a legitimate Targaryen claiming the throne and potentially a bastard Targaryen wielding Blackfyre. If you don't see how that neatly works into the story then I can't help you.
But the Mormonts have had Longclaw for five hundred years.
The first Blackfyre rebellion occurred in 196 AC, and Daemon was wielding Blackfyre. So it's not really possible that Longclaw could be that sword, right? It was already in possession of House Mormont at the time.
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United States44216 Posts
On June 13 2015 02:03 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 01:52 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2015 01:48 Acrofales wrote:On June 10 2015 21:58 Plexa wrote:There was a recent Longclaw = Blackfyre theory that piqued my interests the other day. for the curious Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)? Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really? Blackfyre is the sword of the Targaryen kings. There was a civil war when a bastard Targaryen was given Blackfyre by his father and people followed him as the rightful claimant. And now, hundreds of years later, we have a legitimate Targaryen claiming the throne and potentially a bastard Targaryen wielding Blackfyre. If you don't see how that neatly works into the story then I can't help you. But the Mormonts have had Longclaw for five hundred years. The first Blackfyre rebellion occurred in 196 AC, and Daemon was wielding Blackfyre. So it's not really possible that Longclaw could be that sword, right? It was already in possession of House Mormont at the time.
You didn't read the theory which responds to these things.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
The argument is that Longclaw isn't an ancestral Mormant blade. Rather Bloodraven (by some means) entrusted the blade to Mormont (possibly via the ravens) until some time in the future. The fact that Jorah doesn't mention Longclaw within his chapters lends some credibility to the theory.
EDIT also what Kwark said.
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On June 13 2015 01:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 01:48 Acrofales wrote:On June 10 2015 21:58 Plexa wrote:There was a recent Longclaw = Blackfyre theory that piqued my interests the other day. for the curious Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)? Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really? Blackfyre is the sword of the Targaryen kings. There was a civil war when a bastard Targaryen was given Blackfyre by his father and people followed him as the rightful claimant. And now, hundreds of years later, we have a legitimate Targaryen claiming the throne and potentially a bastard Targaryen wielding Blackfyre. If you don't see how that neatly works into the story then I can't help you.
So you're basically just tagging this onto the R+L=J theory. Which is, imho, completely pointless.
But let's go: firstly there is absolutely nobody in the books wondering about the origin of Longclaw, nor is its origin some great mystery. A minor inconsistency between the Mormonts being a poor (and new) family, yet owning a VS sword can be explained by the fact that GRRM is not perfect, but the main issue with this is that the origins of Longclaw really really really does not matter.
Either R+L=J is true. Great. But Jon wielding Blackfyre is not going to attract any followers that wouldn't follow him already for the mere fact that he is a Stark and a Tagaryen, who is fighting the good fight against the White Walkers.
Or R+L=J turns out to be wrong, then J is not a Tagaryen, and whether Longclaw=Blackfyre is true or not is just as irrelevant, because it won't be a Tagaryen wielding it.
EDIT: and to boot, the Blackfyre rebellion did not start over a sword. Daemon Blackfyre didn't collect followers because he was the wielder of Blackfyre, and Daeron Tagaryen didn't start the war to reclaim the Blackfyre sword.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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United States44216 Posts
On June 13 2015 02:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 01:52 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2015 01:48 Acrofales wrote:On June 10 2015 21:58 Plexa wrote:There was a recent Longclaw = Blackfyre theory that piqued my interests the other day. for the curious Why does anybody care? Sure, there aren't that many Valyrian steel blades around, but it's not as if Blackfyre was some extra-mythical blade with magic properties. GRRM has not given a list of all Valyrian steel blades ever forged, and inventing an extra one or two when necessary is not going to break the lore... so honestly, why bother trying to invent a theory around Longclaw (of all things)? Longclaw is the ancestral blade of the Mormonts. When and where it fell into their hands? Who cares, really? Blackfyre is the sword of the Targaryen kings. There was a civil war when a bastard Targaryen was given Blackfyre by his father and people followed him as the rightful claimant. And now, hundreds of years later, we have a legitimate Targaryen claiming the throne and potentially a bastard Targaryen wielding Blackfyre. If you don't see how that neatly works into the story then I can't help you. So you're basically just tagging this onto the R+L=J theory. Which is, imho, completely pointless. But let's go: firstly there is absolutely nobody in the books wondering about the origin of Longclaw, nor is its origin some great mystery. A minor inconsistency between the Mormonts being a poor (and new) family, yet owning a VS sword can be explained by the fact that GRRM is not perfect, but the main issue with this is that the origins of Longclaw really really really does not matter. Either R+L=J is true. Great. But Jon wielding Blackfyre is not going to attract any followers that wouldn't follow him already for the mere fact that he is a Stark and a Tagaryen, who is fighting the good fight against the White Walkers. Or R+L=J turns out to be wrong, then J is not a Tagaryen, and whether Longclaw=Blackfyre is true or not is just as irrelevant, because it won't be a Tagaryen wielding it. EDIT: and to boot, the Blackfyre rebellion did not start over a sword. Daemon Blackfyre didn't collect followers because he was the wielder of Blackfyre, and Daeron Tagaryen didn't start the war to reclaim the Blackfyre sword.
The sword was absolutely a symbol of the legitimacy of Daemon Blackfyre. The war wasn't over who got to keep the sword, it was over who got to be king, but the son that the father gives the ancestral sword of his house to is absolutely going to have a case for legitimacy.
It's not about the sword, the sword was just the device used to say "this bastard is the heir to my (Targ) house". That's the context that the sword carries with it.
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The whole Blackfyre = Longclaw might be an easter egg, i somewhat doubt it will have any implications, even if true.
The only person who could actually confirm it is Bloodraven, and i dont really see why would he bother, but who knows, maybe he'll come in contact with Jon. Either way, it has minimal impact on the story, even if revealed.
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Even if it was Blackfire, who would want to be associated with that name? Remember that the Blackfire rebellion is what brought down the targs by having the people rise up against their dragons. The Blackfire rebellion killed thousands and is probably the WW2 of Westeros. It would be like having the sword of Adolf Hitler. If Jon wants to be king one day, the sword's name will only hurt him.
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On June 13 2015 02:52 Hyperbola wrote:
Even if it was Blackfire, who would want to be associated with that name? Remember that the Blackfire rebellion is what brought down the targs by having the people rise up against their dragons. The Blackfire rebellion killed thousands and is probably the WW2 of Westeros. It would be like having the sword of Adolf Hitler. If Jon wants to be king one day, the sword's name will only hurt him.
The sword itself was a signature blade of the tue Targaryen house, the problem was when the king gifted it to his bastard. So idk, maybe the name is tainted, but it's not like Hitler's blade, a more fitting analogy would be a blade of the Holy Roman Emperors which Hitler also used in turn.
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Well, I mean, Brightroar disappeared too. There's just a healthy bit of myth around Valyrian steel swords, just because they are the only vestige from Valyria. Even House Corbray has a Valyrian steel sword, and they are poor.
I don't know. I'm just not seeing much substance to it.
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I'd be on board with that theory right up to the point that I usurp the name "Blackfyre" and replace it with "Dark Sister" at the end. Any probability that is assigned to the idea that Longclaw might be Blackfyre has to be slightly lower than the probability that it is Dark Sister if for no other reason than we know Bloodraven had Dark Sister.
The theory could use some more tempring, but there is good material there.
A couple of the weakest bits of slag have to be:
Thinking that Longclaw and Blackfyre are the only valyrian bastard swords around.
Thinking that similarities in appearance that are no more than generic traits of valyrian steel constitute a meaningful similarity between Longclaw and Blackfyre.
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On June 13 2015 05:35 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I'd be on board with that theory right up to the point that I usurp the name "Blackfyre" and replace it with "Dark Sister" at the end. Any probability that is assigned to the idea that Longclaw might be Blackfyre has to be slightly lower than the probability that it is Dark Sister if for no other reason than we know Bloodraven had Dark Sister.
The theory could use some more tempring, but there is good material there.
A couple of the weakest bits of slag have to be:
Thinking that Longclaw and Blackfyre are the only valyrian bastard swords around.
Thinking that similarities in appearance that are no more than generic traits of valyrian steel constitute a meaningful similarity between Longclaw and Blackfyre.
As far as I know, Dark Sister wouldn't bear much resemblance to a bastard sword, and it's designed for a woman, however, I only take this knowledge from the wiki of ice and fire, which does list a GRRM source, but I can't find any mention of "Dark Sister" on that page. Maybe it's buried somewhere and not ctrl-f'able
( http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/ )
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/22ZnSJk.jpg)
