EPTEuron = Daario makes no sense. It has been discussed several times in the topic, and I am pretty sure that less than 20 pages ago, someone made a post listing the many reasons why it makes no sense.
edit: there you go
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 601
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Euron = Daario makes no sense. It has been discussed several times in the topic, and I am pretty sure that less than 20 pages ago, someone made a post listing the many reasons why it makes no sense. edit: there you go | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
what kind of bs is that ;_; | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
At least with Benjen there isn't an absurd amounts of mental gymnastics to cover for the fact they're shown in two different places, on opposite sides of Planetos, at once. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On May 11 2015 09:13 jinorazi wrote: Selmy died to use as catalyst in Daenny's next move. What happens? I don't recall. I remember pit fight where she flies off but I don't recall any change of attitude/stance like they're going to do in the show. Selmy's death is basically your typical "Old wise man who has guided a character dies in the middle of the film" thing. I'd take a bet that there's a TV Trope page for that. So if we follow that trope, Dany will now start to mope and feel overwhelmed by all the responsibility with no one there to properly guide her, make (even more) mistakes, then learn to suck it up until she ultimately grows and becomes wise/capable of taking care of herself. That is, ride dragons and be bad-ass. | ||
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jxx
Brazil307 Posts
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sparkk51
United States137 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
NEVER, before this episode, did I feel any sorrow for him. So it seems everybody leaves the Wall now. Extremely interested with what goes on with the Wall and Stannis/Boltons, espacially now that Stannis looks to go directly towards Winterfell this time. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On May 11 2015 11:03 jxx wrote: So... pretty filler episode, however I though it was cool to show some of Valyria. Could it also mean RIP Jon Connington from the series? since Mormont now has greyscale it seems obvious to me Connington will not appear on the show. Sucks cause he had a lot of potential. Or maybe he dies in the first chapter of the next book. Still I wonder who/how/when shit will hit the fan if there is no Faegon to take a castle in Westeros? | ||
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renlynn
United States276 Posts
On May 11 2015 10:17 Conti wrote: Selmy's death is basically your typical "Old wise man who has guided a character dies in the middle of the film" thing. I'd take a bet that there's a TV Trope page for that. So if we follow that trope, Dany will now start to mope and feel overwhelmed by all the responsibility with no one there to properly guide her, make (even more) mistakes, then learn to suck it up until she ultimately grows and becomes wise/capable of taking care of herself. That is, ride dragons and be bad-ass. here you go! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
The scene between Missandei and Grey Worm was really painful, as was the scene between Miranda and Ramsay, but the rest was alright. Dany did a pretty gigantic 180 in that episode though... going from feeding former slave masters to her dragons to opening the pits and marrying one of them. Talk about rushing. I also felt like the "Kill the boy" speech sort of came out of nowhere. It loses some of its impact when we don't know the story behind it, but I guess that's nitpicking. Things I did like: - Roose. The sheer enjoyment he visibly gets from screwing with Ramsay is just awesome. - Seeing Valyria, and especially Tyrion reciting the history of old. Very cool, very much like his character. - Stannis. They are starting to do his character justice, but I'm afraid it doesn't fit what they've done with him before. I'd have to rewatch the show, but I'm pretty sure he just does a giant 180 when Davos tells him the Watch needs him, and then he improves from there. It's sort of the same in the books, except it's much more fleshed out and he had redeeming qualities beforehand, unlike in the show where he was portrayed as an outright villain. - Stannis again. He had a VERY important line this episode and a huge bit of foreshadowing: "Half of these watchmen are killers and rapists". It was a good and necessary reminder of the state of the Watch, and of what is to come. - Reek/Ramsay/Sansa-not-so-much. I liked that she visibly enjoyed Roose screwing with Ramsay too, and overall I think there is a good Reek/Sansa storyline incoming (thanks to the super obvious "previously on GoT" at the beginning of the episode). Overall, a decent, better episode than the last few. Really wish they'd do away with the painful "romance" scenes and do something else instead. It's just bad material. Stannis' army is huge. They're sort of portraying him as having the advantage, I really wonder how that will go. Will we get to see the Battle of Winterfell before the end of the season? That would be a major, major spoiler, but I sort of hope we do. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On May 10 2015 19:24 Conti wrote: I think that's the issue here. You seem to say that changing plots/characters from the books for no "good" reason is an inherently bad thing that has to be avoided at all costs. I'm sorry to say, but we, the book readers, are not the target audience here. Sure, we're a useful tool to get all our friends to watch the show, but that's about it. Ultimately, there are (or were, rather) far too few book readers to make the show (or any show/film) a success. The show needs unsullied people to survive, and a ton of it. And so it becomes less and less important that things stay true to the books. So what if Jaime is still in love with Cersei? So what if he and Tyrion parted on good terms? So what if Brienne's storyline is completely different at this point? None of these things matter one bit in terms of whether the show is good or bad. It only matters whether these things make sense from the show's point of view, not whether the books did it differently. And from the show's PoV, there's really nothing wrong with Brienne or Jaime's characters (Though Jaime going to Dorne should raise a few eyebrows, admittedly). Yes, they're very clearly different from the books, but that is not inherently bad. The reason the show was even made into a TV series is because the books are good. There are good reasons to change things from the books, and there are bad reasons. What's the point of adapting a book if you aren't going to even make the characters resemble the characters they are adapting? It stops becoming a good adaptation and starts to become fan fiction loosely based on characters who have the same name as characters in the books. But more importantly they completely change who a character is on the show and then try to shoehorn in events from the books without taking into account how their changes should change those major events. Beyond that the problem is the changes often make no sense in the context of the show. It makes no sense for Tyrion to still love Shae after she betrayed him, slept with his dad and tried to kill him herself. It makes no sense for Jaime to go to Dorne. They are inherently bad changes. It makes no sense for Sansa to marry the Boltons. Then Littlefinger gives her the idea of manipulating them and she spends dinner refusing to toast, giving evil eyes and being passive aggressive. She had more sense and self preservation in King's Landing with Joffrey. It makes no sense for Dany to first imprison Hizdahr zo Loraq and threaten his life, then release and force him to marry her. Unlike the books, she crucified Hizdahr's dad because he was a master even though Hizdahr said he was innocent and threatened to feed him to her dragons for no reason. Hizdahr is basically in the same situation as Sansa marrying Ramsay now. Jaime not being in love with Cersei and seeing what type of person she really is, is key to his character development and becoming a different and better person. Instead he is a love struck puppy who raped his sister and hasn't shown he has significantly changed at all. But they can't even keep that part of the story consistent as they changed it so Cersei wanted to go public with their relationship and Jaime who is still in love with Cersei said they needed to keep it a secret... What do they gain by making these changes? Certainly not a better story, nor does it save them time or reduce the budget or cast size. Missandei and her romance with the eunuch Greyworm is eating up WAY too much screen time. If that's your idea of not inherently bad, I suspect we will never agree on the subject. They shouldn't keep things as close as they can to the books just to appease readers. They should do it because GRRM is a much better writer than they are. That being said this last episode was entertaining in comparison to the rest of the season. It still has problems, but most of those were set up previously, so a poor adaptation, but an entertaining episode with only a few glaring issues keeping it from being great. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a book adaption. It's not made to satisfy readers of the books. It is made to satisfy a much, much larger audience than that, and 90% of that audience has never read the books, and thus "satisfying the 10%" is a very unimportant thing you need to consider when adapting a book. Granted, this is a bit of a hyperbole, since the 10% can be pretty damn loud (and rightly so), but you get the idea. You may not like that, and as a fellow book reader I can certainly understand why, but that's just the way it is. It doesn't matter that Jaime still loves Cersei, and it doesn't matter that this means he can't grow the way he does in the books. Show Jaime is a separate character from book Jaime. You keep complaining that a show character isn't like his book counterpart, and that his journey is therefore different, and that that is an inherently bad thing that has to be condemned. I disagree. Treat GoT as a separate story with separate characters, and you'll enjoy it a great deal more. And don't try to nitpick it to death just so you can make the argument that the books are better in every regard. You could just as well do it the other way around and criticize the books to hell and back if you really wanted to (and don't tell me the books are flawless. They're not), but since you never had anything to compare them to when you read them originally, you never felt the need to do that. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On May 11 2015 19:41 Spaylz wrote: Stannis' army is huge. They're sort of portraying him as having the advantage, I really wonder how that will go. Will we get to see the Battle of Winterfell before the end of the season? That would be a major, major spoiler, but I sort of hope we do. I've been rooting for Stannis to kick some ass for a while. I can't wait for him to get stuck in the snow for a couple of episodes after which he kicks some Bolton ass. Also my memory is very hazy, I recall a meeting between Davos and Lord Manderly (is that even in the show?) about Rickard still possibly being alive at Skagos and where the Manderlys sort of became allies of Stannis. Shouldn't that be happening soon? | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14911 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On May 12 2015 03:11 KOFgokuon wrote: manderly wasn't cast, they're cutting it apparently along with a number of stories. Sansa will probably take Rickon's place as a rallying call for the north Meh that sucks  | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On May 12 2015 01:35 Conti wrote: I could go through all those examples one by one and explain my view of why those plots make sense, or how we cannot know yet whether they make sense or not, or how I entirely agree that they don't make much sense. There's certainly a mix of all three for me in the examples given by you. But that's pretty much besides the point. The point is that change is often necessary if you adapt a story, and if you have an open ended story that you have to end yourself, then you absolutely have to change a bunch of stuff. Deal with it. Change is necessary, what we seem to disagree with is what changes are necessary. Is Missandei and Greyworm romance a "necessary change" that improves things for the non-reader? There are so many things they have good reason to cut due to limiting the cast size, keeping a budget, and lack of time, so what's the point of casting Myranda and giving her so much screen time? They cut everything that makes up the entirety of Doran's plot for revenge by removing Quentyn and Arianne, but cast 3 sand snakes, who are minor bit characters and decided to write their own fan fiction around them. It's not an easy task to consolidate 2 huge books into one season. Of course it's primarily D&D's decision to consolidate two books into one season so my sympathy there is limited. But make your stories coherent. Make your characters consistent. Preferably with the books when possible, because why not? They paid for the rights to use the books. Why change things just for the sake of change, if you could follow the book without adding any cast, budget increase or screen time increase? But if they are going to make their own stories like Dany imprisoning Hizdahr, crucifying his father, and threatening to feed him to Dany's dragons, then why force their way back to the book event of Dany marrying him? It makes no sense in the completely changed context they have invented. I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a book adaption. It's not made to satisfy readers of the books. It is made to satisfy a much, much larger audience than that, and 90% of that audience has never read the books, and thus "satisfying the 10%" is a very unimportant thing you need to consider when adapting a book. Granted, this is a bit of a hyperbole, since the 10% can be pretty damn loud (and rightly so), but you get the idea. You may not like that, and as a fellow book reader I can certainly understand why, but that's just the way it is. Like I said, many of their changes make no sense even if the books didn't exist. You say that satisfying the readers doesn't matter, as if it is mutually exclusive to stay as true to the books as possible and have non-readers enjoy the show. It doesn't matter that Jaime still loves Cersei, and it doesn't matter that this means he can't grow the way he does in the books. Show Jaime is a separate character from book Jaime. You keep complaining that a show character isn't like his book counterpart, and that his journey is therefore different, and that that is an inherently bad thing that has to be condemned. I disagree. How does randomly changing a character's motivations and feelings improve things for non-readers? Would non-readers not like the show if Jaime didn't still love Cersei? They changed it so Jaime does not want to go public with their relationship because of what it will do to their kids and power, and Cersei wants to go public, yet they kept it where Jaime didn't care at all when Joffrey died. Don't keep things like the book just to appease readers. Do it to appease your non-readers. Because what they make up instead often leads to inconsistencies, when they try to force that changed character into a book event that no longer fits who they have made them to be. On May 12 2015 04:45 jinorazi wrote: i guess we'll be seeing daeny fly off this season. ending up with the horde, was that a long while after she flew off? (will she and the dragon meet the khalasar this season or next season?) she meeting the horde was the last thing if i remember correctly of her story in the book. for sure we'll be seeing new daeny material that no one knows about. about time too i think, people hated seeing daeny in essos doing nothing. I suspect there will be no meeting of the horde this season and maybe never. They cut the siege of Mereen by the other slave cities, and they killed Jhaqo in season 1. They could cast some other Khal of course, but I didn't see any casting news about that this season. I suspect the horde helps break the siege in the books, and with no siege there is no need for the horde and all the casting it would require. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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