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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On January 31 2015 14:45 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 08:13 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 31 2015 05:45 Irrelevant Label wrote:On January 31 2015 04:34 sung_moon wrote:
Couldn't really get much from the trailer. they could very well remove Aegon all together or introduce him later.
Quite curious to whom Olenna was talking to, as well as the scene with Sansa/LF. The background looks like they could be in the North?
Pretty sure Bran is going to be AFK this entire season. The simple version is that Faegon won't be in the show. He carries a lot of background baggage with him, and considering they went as far as to cut the entire Iron Islands arc it doesn't seem like they would invest the time building that up. I'm no longer willing to draw any confident speculations about the plot of the books based on that likelyhood. (arrogant and mediocre confidence stance: He is faegon and will amount to little anyway) Olenna was probably talking to Margaery. She keeps that kind of straight talk to her family. To an "not us" (an enemy, to borrow from Cersei) that statement either admits weakness or is a threat depending on the context, and that isn't her thing either way. Agreed on the question of where the hell Sansa and LF are. To make up a semi wild guess, they might be merging LF into Manderly a bit and taking Sansa along for some of the North vs. Boltons stuff. I could see that being the case, Benioff and Weiss have mentioned they will continue to alter the books, they even adding a new character just to get the badassness of Mr. Eko on the show. Yet they not putting Ariana nor the Griffs? people calling GRRM evil for WoW delay I called Benioff and Weiss evil for that crap (although having Mr. Eko in season 5 makes this the greatest show of all time) Oh, please! He's not Mr. Eko, he's Simon Adebisi. About four times as badass. More seriously, where did you guys get that Aero and Jaime have a scene together? I just watched the trailer twice, and it eluded me.
are you kidding me! Eko turned Lost into one of the greatest shows of all time to THE greatest show of all time...well that and yes, minister
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On February 01 2015 07:27 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:45 Spaylz wrote:On January 31 2015 08:13 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 31 2015 05:45 Irrelevant Label wrote:On January 31 2015 04:34 sung_moon wrote:
Couldn't really get much from the trailer. they could very well remove Aegon all together or introduce him later.
Quite curious to whom Olenna was talking to, as well as the scene with Sansa/LF. The background looks like they could be in the North?
Pretty sure Bran is going to be AFK this entire season. The simple version is that Faegon won't be in the show. He carries a lot of background baggage with him, and considering they went as far as to cut the entire Iron Islands arc it doesn't seem like they would invest the time building that up. I'm no longer willing to draw any confident speculations about the plot of the books based on that likelyhood. (arrogant and mediocre confidence stance: He is faegon and will amount to little anyway) Olenna was probably talking to Margaery. She keeps that kind of straight talk to her family. To an "not us" (an enemy, to borrow from Cersei) that statement either admits weakness or is a threat depending on the context, and that isn't her thing either way. Agreed on the question of where the hell Sansa and LF are. To make up a semi wild guess, they might be merging LF into Manderly a bit and taking Sansa along for some of the North vs. Boltons stuff. I could see that being the case, Benioff and Weiss have mentioned they will continue to alter the books, they even adding a new character just to get the badassness of Mr. Eko on the show. Yet they not putting Ariana nor the Griffs? people calling GRRM evil for WoW delay I called Benioff and Weiss evil for that crap (although having Mr. Eko in season 5 makes this the greatest show of all time) Oh, please! He's not Mr. Eko, he's Simon Adebisi. About four times as badass. More seriously, where did you guys get that Aero and Jaime have a scene together? I just watched the trailer twice, and it eluded me. are you kidding me! Eko turned Lost into one of the greatest shows of all time to THE greatest show of all time...well that and yes, minister
Lost is not the greatest series of all time.
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On February 01 2015 18:48 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 07:27 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:45 Spaylz wrote:On January 31 2015 08:13 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 31 2015 05:45 Irrelevant Label wrote:On January 31 2015 04:34 sung_moon wrote:
Couldn't really get much from the trailer. they could very well remove Aegon all together or introduce him later.
Quite curious to whom Olenna was talking to, as well as the scene with Sansa/LF. The background looks like they could be in the North?
Pretty sure Bran is going to be AFK this entire season. The simple version is that Faegon won't be in the show. He carries a lot of background baggage with him, and considering they went as far as to cut the entire Iron Islands arc it doesn't seem like they would invest the time building that up. I'm no longer willing to draw any confident speculations about the plot of the books based on that likelyhood. (arrogant and mediocre confidence stance: He is faegon and will amount to little anyway) Olenna was probably talking to Margaery. She keeps that kind of straight talk to her family. To an "not us" (an enemy, to borrow from Cersei) that statement either admits weakness or is a threat depending on the context, and that isn't her thing either way. Agreed on the question of where the hell Sansa and LF are. To make up a semi wild guess, they might be merging LF into Manderly a bit and taking Sansa along for some of the North vs. Boltons stuff. I could see that being the case, Benioff and Weiss have mentioned they will continue to alter the books, they even adding a new character just to get the badassness of Mr. Eko on the show. Yet they not putting Ariana nor the Griffs? people calling GRRM evil for WoW delay I called Benioff and Weiss evil for that crap (although having Mr. Eko in season 5 makes this the greatest show of all time) Oh, please! He's not Mr. Eko, he's Simon Adebisi. About four times as badass. More seriously, where did you guys get that Aero and Jaime have a scene together? I just watched the trailer twice, and it eluded me. are you kidding me! Eko turned Lost into one of the greatest shows of all time to THE greatest show of all time...well that and yes, minister Lost is not the greatest series of all time.
Far from it.
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Varys backing Daenaeris wouldn't make much sense, considering the conversation he had with Ilyrio in GoT, and the fact that he actively persuaded Robert (Baratheon) to have Dany killed.
We just finished watching season one and holy balls...
I liked it, but why the hell did they make Khal Drogo rape Dany? In the books, it was made very clear that he'd stop if she didn't want it, and that she was really into it. I mean, who wouldn't be?
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T-T
I hope the next book is at least 2000 pages long...
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On February 02 2015 06:16 SixStrings wrote:
We just finished watching season one and holy balls...
I liked it, but why the hell did they make Khal Drogo rape Dany? In the books, it was made very clear that he'd stop if she didn't want it, and that she was really into it. I mean, who wouldn't be?
By modern standards Drogo raped Dany numerous times during their early days together, even if the initial wedding night was not:
Yet every night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from begind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep.
Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night...
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That last part is just about her physical exhaustion and the harsh life of the Khalasar and it says nothing about her not consenting, just about her physical pain.
I'm not reading rape, I'm reading girl in a shitty situation has consensual, if painful, sex with her husband.
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On February 02 2015 09:27 SixStrings wrote:
That last part is just about her physical exhaustion and the harsh life of the Khalasar and it says nothing about her not consenting, just about her physical pain.
I'm not reading rape, I'm reading girl in a shitty situation has consensual, if painful, sex with her husband.
...what? You read that paragraph and go "Oh, yeah, she's totally fine with that."?
I don't even..
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The rape showed that she was in a very bad position. They didn't have to waste hours of screentime on explaining everything, it was obvious thanks to that one scene.
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On February 02 2015 09:32 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 09:27 SixStrings wrote:
That last part is just about her physical exhaustion and the harsh life of the Khalasar and it says nothing about her not consenting, just about her physical pain.
I'm not reading rape, I'm reading girl in a shitty situation has consensual, if painful, sex with her husband.
...what? You read that paragraph and go "Oh, yeah, she's totally fine with that."? I don't even..
No of course she's not fine with that. She's in an unpleasant, unfamiliar situation. She's under implied threat of death by her brother, she's physically exhausted from riding all day and she'd probably prefer to get some rest during the night.
That being said, just because Drogo isn't being sensitive, doesn't mean he's raping her. It's implied during her wedding night that she just has to say no and he would leave her be.
But calling someone a rapist, just because he has sex with his wife and doesn't know that she doesn't want to, is pretty harsh.
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On February 02 2015 09:49 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 09:32 Conti wrote:On February 02 2015 09:27 SixStrings wrote:
That last part is just about her physical exhaustion and the harsh life of the Khalasar and it says nothing about her not consenting, just about her physical pain.
I'm not reading rape, I'm reading girl in a shitty situation has consensual, if painful, sex with her husband.
...what? You read that paragraph and go "Oh, yeah, she's totally fine with that."? I don't even.. No of course she's not fine with that. She's in an unpleasant, unfamiliar situation. She's under implied threat of death by her brother, she's physically exhausted from riding all day and she'd probably prefer to get some rest during the night. That being said, just because Drogo isn't being sensitive, doesn't mean he's raping her. It's implied during her wedding night that she just has to say no and he would leave her be.
Welp, I'm really not feeling like starting another "What is rape?" discussion, so I'll just leave it at that.
Back on topic: If you were bothered by the Dany-Drogo sex-scene in the show, you are in for quite a treat for another not-quite-rape-scene happening later on in the show. 
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On February 02 2015 09:53 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 09:49 SixStrings wrote:On February 02 2015 09:32 Conti wrote:On February 02 2015 09:27 SixStrings wrote:
That last part is just about her physical exhaustion and the harsh life of the Khalasar and it says nothing about her not consenting, just about her physical pain.
I'm not reading rape, I'm reading girl in a shitty situation has consensual, if painful, sex with her husband.
...what? You read that paragraph and go "Oh, yeah, she's totally fine with that."? I don't even.. No of course she's not fine with that. She's in an unpleasant, unfamiliar situation. She's under implied threat of death by her brother, she's physically exhausted from riding all day and she'd probably prefer to get some rest during the night. That being said, just because Drogo isn't being sensitive, doesn't mean he's raping her. It's implied during her wedding night that she just has to say no and he would leave her be. Welp, I'm really not feeling like starting another "What is rape?" discussion, so I'll just leave it at that. Back on topic: If you were bothered by the Dany-Drogo sex-scene in the show, you are in for quite a treat for another not-quite-rape-scene happening later on in the show.
Haha, I'm not looking forward to that. I think Westeros is such an unpleasant place already, without the added rapes. 
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On February 02 2015 06:16 SixStrings wrote:
Varys backing Daenaeris wouldn't make much sense, considering the conversation he had with Ilyrio in GoT, and the fact that he actively persuaded Robert (Baratheon) to have Dany killed. How does it not make sense? He told Illyrio that he couldn't delay the war any longer, and he convinced Robert to send the assassin so he could tell Jorah to stop it, giving Drogo the will to invade, and increasing Jorah's status with the Dothraki.
He's been supporting her literally the entire time.
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On February 02 2015 11:32 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 06:16 SixStrings wrote:
Varys backing Daenaeris wouldn't make much sense, considering the conversation he had with Ilyrio in GoT, and the fact that he actively persuaded Robert (Baratheon) to have Dany killed. How does it not make sense? He told Illyrio that he couldn't delay the war any longer, and he convinced Robert to send the assassin so he could tell Jorah to stop it, giving Drogo the will to invade, and increasing Jorah's status with the Dothraki. He's been supporting her literally the entire time.
I didn't understand it that way when Jorah stopped the assassin.
The look on his face as the kid delivers Varys' message in the market tells me he's feeling regretful and doesn't want the assassination attempt to succeed. At least, it's how I interpreted it.
Doesn't Illyrio say that yes, they did think she'd die?
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On February 02 2015 11:32 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 06:16 SixStrings wrote:
Varys backing Daenaeris wouldn't make much sense, considering the conversation he had with Ilyrio in GoT, and the fact that he actively persuaded Robert (Baratheon) to have Dany killed. How does it not make sense? He told Illyrio that he couldn't delay the war any longer, and he convinced Robert to send the assassin so he could tell Jorah to stop it, giving Drogo the will to invade, and increasing Jorah's status with the Dothraki. He's been supporting her literally the entire time.
That's not what happened at all...
He sent the letters to have her killed, and feeling certain it would be done, he sent Jorah his pardon.
Jorah, knowing that his mission was at an end, suspected that Dany was supposed to be assassinated and he intervened.
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I thought Varys whole thing was that he doesn't really care who ends up on the throne, he just wants the land to become unified and stable again. Perhaps,in the show at least, he has seen through his spies how much support and strength Dany has gotten and now believes she is his best option to achieve that goal.
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On February 02 2015 23:14 Spiller wrote:
I thought Varys whole thing was that he doesn't really care who ends up on the throne, he just wants the land to become unified and stable again. Perhaps,in the show at least, he has seen through his spies how much support and strength Dany has gotten and now believes she is his best option to achieve that goal.
No, you're about absolutely right about that.
But they still implied that Varys already had someone whom he was backing, so they can't just not introduce the Gryff storyline at all.
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On February 02 2015 19:02 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 11:32 Pwere wrote:On February 02 2015 06:16 SixStrings wrote:
Varys backing Daenaeris wouldn't make much sense, considering the conversation he had with Ilyrio in GoT, and the fact that he actively persuaded Robert (Baratheon) to have Dany killed. How does it not make sense? He told Illyrio that he couldn't delay the war any longer, and he convinced Robert to send the assassin so he could tell Jorah to stop it, giving Drogo the will to invade, and increasing Jorah's status with the Dothraki. He's been supporting her literally the entire time. That's not what happened at all... He sent the letters to have her killed, and feeling certain it would be done, he sent Jorah his pardon. Jorah, knowing that his mission was at an end, suspected that Dany was supposed to be assassinated and he intervened. I guess that depends on how cunning you think Varys really is. If he wanted her dead, he would have sent the Faceless Men, not simply given a title to any random assassin. In his own words:
"Titles are cheap. The Faceless Men are expensive. If truth be told, I did the Targaryen girl more good than you with all your talk of honor. Let some sellsword drunk on visions of lordship try to kill her. Likely he'll make a botch of it, and afterward the Dothraki will be on their guard. If we'd sent a Faceless Man after her, she'd be as good as buried."
But I think even at this point we don't know Varys' true endgame. Maybe he didn't care about Dany, as he was grooming Aegon, but in the show, he doesn't seem to have this option. A botched assassination attempt is the only consistent action with his current viewpoint.
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You can also question what the point would be to say that to Jorah if it's not to have him stop it. "Hey Jorah, here is that totally unnecessary information, have fun with it!" It's not like Jorah wouldn't have understood what happened after the poisoning, or needed to do something specific in order to make it happen.
+ you have to explain why Varys2.Illyrio would host them for months instead of killing them if Varys really didn't want anything with her. I'm sure it helped their plans that Viserys was an idiot, but they're still far smarter than Dany, so they should manage even with her.
About the Drogo-Dany scene, a few comments regarding the show.
A) The actors have said they were originally going for something that was closer to the book version, but it didn't "feel" right, so they got rid of it. It's kind of hard to translate things like that on screen without having Dany's inner monologue, as you can imagine. But it's not impossible either, of course, which brings me to my second point,
B) I think it works well like that in the context of the show, because in the show it would look like Dany taking power for herself already, which they have her do a little later through Doreah. This way we have a linear transition from weak and powerless to earning more and more agency. Simplified, maybe, but you have to expect simplification in these cases.
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EPT
