EPT[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 553
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
if true, how would it be proven in the book? magic?(blood of dragon like daenerys) written will?(ned's lost will) seems quiet easy to ignore...not like him being a bastard child of robert or rhaegar helps him with the throne even if his interested. or perhaps he will get used by the red bitch for his kings blood? i dont see how it can help him but rather hurt him. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 20 2014 10:14 jinorazi wrote: whats the point of R+L=J? if true, how would it be proven in the book? magic?(blood of dragon like daenerys) written will?(ned's lost will) seems quiet easy to ignore...not like him being a bastard child of robert or rhaegar helps him with the throne even if his interested. or perhaps he will get used by the red bitch for his kings blood? There's a theory that the new high septon is actually Howland Reed... if true that would be one way! http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory/ | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On June 20 2014 10:14 jinorazi wrote: whats the point of R+L=J? if true, how would it be proven in the book? magic?(blood of dragon like daenerys) written will?(ned's lost will) seems quiet easy to ignore...not like him being a bastard child of robert or rhaegar helps him with the throne even if his interested. or perhaps he will get used by the red bitch for his kings blood? i dont see how it can help him but rather hurt him. Howland Reed? I'm almost sure Howland will probably appear in books. Whether he appears in Jon's story or Bran's is a different story though. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On June 20 2014 10:56 jinorazi wrote: i dont even remember howland reed rofl Time for a reread? :D | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On June 20 2014 07:50 Talin wrote: As long as there was ANY mention of Lyanna being kidnapped by Rhaegar, it is not inconceivable that a show viewer could stumble upon it. Assuming Jon's parentage is important, there are two conceivable theories you can pull out form the show: 1) He's the son of Lyanna and Bob 2) He's the son of Lyanna and the Targaryen kidnapper It's easy to discard Ned being the father either. It's uncharacteristic for him, and there are no women - living or dead - interesting enough to be mothers that have been mentioned in any way. Unless you go crazy and assume he's the son of Lyanna and Ned. You don't really need the kind of hard evidence presented in the books for it. Books pretty much lay it out in the open. First off the show is full of story details that go absolutely no where and make no sense, so assuming Jon's parentage on the show is important is far from obvious. Especially since Jon almost immediately joins the Night's Watch where he looses what ever birth rights he might have. Why is it "easy" to discard Ned based on the show? Because he is supposedly honorable in a show about filled with morally grey characters? Isn't taking responsibility and facing the consequences for the bastard you had out of wedlock honorable too? Ned said Jon's mother is Wylla. Why should show only watchers think it's completely impossible Ned could do this, but none of Ned's friends, family or associates do? Nobody who knows Ned ever question it. The only reason readers can question it is because we get in Ned's head and get his thoughts and memories from the Tower of Joy, along with a bunch of other clues. I don't even think that the book "lays it out in the open." There are clues spread out over 5 books that support the theory as a strong possibility, but most readers only see it as "obvious" after they read an online summary of all those clues in one spot. Some people do figure it out on their own, but I suspect they are the vast minority. It may seem like "everyone" knows when you frequent GoT book discussions, but those discussions are where most readers hear about it for the first time. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
1. Ned is suppoused to be honorable 2. Lyanna died during the rebellion. And that s hit. Why arent there people coming and saying Tyrion is actually not Tywinn's son, since he says that when dying, but he s actually descendant of idk which house? (and i know about the Tyrion Targaryen theory from the books). Or for that matter, 1. we know Tywin hates the Targs 2. Jaime + Cersei are prone to incest and have very light hair = Aerys raped Tywins wife, and he s the father of the twins, that s why he turned against him, and murdered all the Targs in KL. As plausible based on show "clues" as Lyanna being Jon's mother And these are not even that crazy. Why not say, Jon is Ellia's son, huh? Martells have balck hair, maybe Ned saved one of the Targ children, cuz he hates child-murderm, but he claims him as his own. 1. We know Ned s honorable and hates child murder 2. We know Robert wouldnt have allowed a trag prince to live had he known = Ellia is Jon's mother, case closed Funny how these kind of stretch theories dont come up, and 90%+ of peolpe cannot even figure out plottwists which are fucking spelled out on the show, and reminded of in the "previously on GoT" intro. I literally asked some of my non reader friends, if they know why Oberyn hates the Lannisters (around ep 6-7), most of them understood it's because Ellia's murder, but then i asked when was that and why, i think 1 person remembred that they mention it was during the war 19 years ago, rest thought it just happened sometime in the near past, we dont know | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Stannis is not a baratheon! Robert and Renly kinda look alike, and are more hedonistic Stannis was willing to kill Renly = Stannis's mother had a secret Lannister lover, and he s a half borther bastard to Robert, whos jealous of Renly Mellisandre is a Tully! She has red hair =she must have been kidnapped from Riverrun and sold into slavery, that s why she came back to Westeros, to rise again in the court of KL, a chance she was denied | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Which book do I need to pick? | ||
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ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 20 2014 16:39 urboss wrote: I haven't read the books so far, but now that season 4 of the TV show is done, I wanna start reading where the TV show ended. Which book do I need to pick? I saw this on Reddit, will probably be useful http://i.imgur.com/w6KsJgG.jpg | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On June 20 2014 16:39 urboss wrote: I haven't read the books so far, but now that season 4 of the TV show is done, I wanna start reading where the TV show ended. Which book do I need to pick? I would not advise that. The story is starting to diverge a lot, and there are a lot more characters in the books. You might be a bit lost. Frankly though, you should read the entire thing. It's worth it just to read A Game of Thrones, as you will find a lot of interesting things that were not included in the show. They are long books, but they are good books. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On June 20 2014 12:59 karazax wrote: First off the show is full of story details that go absolutely no where and make no sense, so assuming Jon's parentage on the show is important is far from obvious. Especially since Jon almost immediately joins the Night's Watch where he looses what ever birth rights he might have. Clearly it's not obvious, but it is a legitimate guess. On June 20 2014 12:59 karazax wrote: Why is it "easy" to discard Ned based on the show? Because he is supposedly honorable in a show about filled with morally grey characters? Isn't taking responsibility and facing the consequences for the bastard you had out of wedlock honorable too? Ned said Jon's mother is Wylla. Why should show only watchers think it's completely impossible Ned could do this, but none of Ned's friends, family or associates do? Nobody who knows Ned ever question it. The only reason readers can question it is because we get in Ned's head and get his thoughts and memories from the Tower of Joy, along with a bunch of other clues. It's easy to discard Ned because Ned being the father doesn't really DO anything for the story and Jon as a character. Fathering a bastard being out of character for Ned is a secondary reason at best (although it conveniently fits into the puzzle). What does Ned being his father really accomplish for the overall story and Jon as a character at this point? If Ned and some random chick are his parents, that's a plot dead end. It doesn't mean anything for Jon, doesn't develop his character, it doesn't provide him with any truly meaningful and character-defining choices in the future. In other words, who his parents really are becomes completely irrelevant. You don't have to overthink what the book or the show tells you. If you just go by one of the classic fantasy/fiction tropes, children born to mysterious parents under mysterious circumstances usually end up being children of heroes or kings or gods, in general come from a bloodline that would have serious implications for the character once he learns the truth. That's why I said that as long as there is even a PASSING mention of Rhaegar, a Targaryen prince "kidnapping" Lyanna, Ned's sister - it is more than enough to trigger the idea that they could be Jon's real parents. You really don't need anything else the book gives you. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
I purchased the books last year, but haven''t had the time. Vacation has started, but I don''t know where to start reading! Could some of you PM me what book to start with? Book 3? I dont mind losing a bit of background information in trade of saving myself 1500 pages  !Please PM because I''m weary of this thread  ! | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
I've tried starting with book 1, but reading 1000s of pages where I know what's gonna happen isn't really my thing. It seems that the first 3 books are pretty much covered by the show. So I will try starting with book 4 and see how it goes. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On June 20 2014 18:24 urboss wrote: Thanks for your answers and the link. I've tried starting with book 1, but reading 1000s of pages where I know what's gonna happen isn't really my thing. It seems that the first 3 books are pretty much covered by the show. So I will try starting with book 4 and see how it goes. i really dont recommend that, cuz u will bump into a tone of contradiction, not just lack of background. If u do need to skip books, skip the first, since it's like 95% the same, 2nd book is about 80-85% the same, so maybe skip that, but from book 3 there are so many changes you d be confused wtf has happened. - One of the most important twists in Tyrion's character development is enitrely written out - Several people die in the show, who are alive in the books - lots of people do not meet at all, who interact in the show - dozens of players are introduced in book 3, who are barely even mentioned in the show. | ||
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