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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 19 2014 23:04 esKq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 13:12 FiWiFaKi wrote:
It's essentially been 99.9% guaranteed for a while that the show will catch up to the books before book 6 is released. George RR Martin has chosen to help work on the show to bring it to life and to make everything work with his thoughts from the following books. He knows he can't finish in time, so the best he can do is postpone it, and express his vision of what was going to be written in the books, into the TV show. He already has his first manuscripts finished, so the show shouldn't have lower quality just because the books aren't out yet. Are you serious ? He really intend to finish the story on TV ? To me this is colossal let down due to the mediocre quality of the show. When does the author stipulate such a thing ?
No, Martin repeadetly said, that he think seasons 5-6 gonna cover AFFC and ADWD, and until then he finishes Winds of Winter, which is gonna last for another 2 seasons.
Is that realistic? No, ofc not, but that s what he claimed over and over again
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I am still hopeful that we will get the 6th book before it is shown on tv.
But the final book will be spoiled by the show for sure.
The show has to keep filming each year for several reasons: not losing hype, child actors looking too old and having to be replaced, other actors signing up for other projects, etc.
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fucking unreal, so this guy worte in the TV thread
On June 19 2014 03:12 Frolossus wrote:
regarding jon snow's parentage
i agree that ned's sister is almost definitely his mother given that it explains the honor issue with ned. however i firmly believe that robert baratheon cannot be the father because *if* he had a secret relation with ned's sister he would certainly have known that snow was not ned's bastard and more likely would have raised the kid himself. It is more likely that the father was someone not robert and raised by ned in order to protect robert from tremendous grief associated by her pregnancy to someone else. furthermore there was one conversation between ned and robert that had robert making a statement that ned had never told him the name of the girl to father the bastard. if it was robert who impregnated her surely he could put 1 and 1 together that ned was raising his kid?
I tell him in PM to GTFO from there with his book knowledge, here s his answer.
"sorry but if you are conceited enough to believe every person watching the show has read the book then that is entirely your problem.
as i said, i've watched the show 4 times through the first 3 seasons and spent months analyzing it in groups with coworkers and friends.
not everyone has to be a super genius to put this together when its really fucking obvious."
So guys, just so u know, from the show it s obvious that Lyanna is Jon's mother.
Shame on everyone who dindt figure it out
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How come the mods aren't doing anything about it? I guess because the season is over?
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On June 20 2014 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:
How come the mods aren't doing anything about it? I guess because the season is over?
Zatic usually waits a bit, so the comments get passed a few pages, and he bans them out after it.
If he marks the post as spoilers shortly after, it confirms for everyone that those indeed were spoilers
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If you PM everyone who makes a correct guess you spoil for sure someone. Imo you should just stop that as it's equally bad.
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On June 20 2014 01:17 Hondelul wrote:
If you PM everyone who makes a correct guess you spoil for sure someone. Imo you should just stop that as it's equally bad.
this was the first time i PMed ppl from that thread, cuz it's fukcing out of the realm of possibilities show viewers can figure out L+R=J.
I would bet my house, my life, and everything i have, that it s not a deduction, but they actually know about the theory
They came with arguments like Jon and Arya look like Starks, and the rest of the kids like Tullies.
Sounds familiar from somewhere?
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On June 20 2014 01:26 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 01:17 Hondelul wrote:
If you PM everyone who makes a correct guess you spoil for sure someone. Imo you should just stop that as it's equally bad. this was the first time i PMed ppl from that thread, cuz it's fukcing out of the realm of possibilities show viewers can figure out L+R=J. I would bet my house, my life, and everything i have, that it s not a deduction, but they actually know about the theory
really?
On June 19 2014 16:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
Just sent a couple of lighthearted PMs for savvy show-viewers who figured out R+L
There ARE people who think hard, watch the series more often and perhaps make and wild guess in that thread. Getting a PM with "hey, don't spoil book stuff" makes exactly that for them. The last guy you PM'd didn't post in here and asked several questions over the years. Not looking that suspicious.
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On June 20 2014 01:31 Hondelul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 01:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 20 2014 01:17 Hondelul wrote:
If you PM everyone who makes a correct guess you spoil for sure someone. Imo you should just stop that as it's equally bad. this was the first time i PMed ppl from that thread, cuz it's fukcing out of the realm of possibilities show viewers can figure out L+R=J. I would bet my house, my life, and everything i have, that it s not a deduction, but they actually know about the theory really? Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 16:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
Just sent a couple of lighthearted PMs for savvy show-viewers who figured out R+L There ARE people who think hard, watch the series more often and perhaps make and wild guess in that thread. Getting a PM with "hey, don't spoil book stuff" makes exactly that for them. The last guy you PM'd didn't post in here and asked several questions over the years. Not looking that suspicious.
u re saying u believe he fiugred out Lyanna is JOn's mother, from the show?
I do know what clues i sould be looking for, and they just arent there.
Now how would a person who doesnt know anything about it find those clues, which just arent there
It's not mentioned how Lyanna died
We dont know for how long was she taken
There is 0 clue suggesting that she loved Rhaegar
We dont know if Ned met Lyanna ever again
There s nothing to suggest that Ned isnt JOn's father, aside that he s honorable.
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I say you should not spoil things in PM, dickish move.
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On June 20 2014 01:38 Hondelul wrote:
I say you should not spoil things in PM, dickish move.
well, if his answer would have been "OMG IT WAS A GUESS, NOW U RUINED IT FOR ME"
then i might consider i was out of the line, he keeps trying to convince me he deduced it, and brings arguments which arent in the show, and there s no way a viewer-only could know.
Like he knows it for sure, and it s not really a guess, but he's 100% convinced of it, based on... well pretty much nothing
Indeed he doesnt post here, from what i gathered, he might now have read the books, probably just the theory, or someone explained it to him, possibly saying it was his deduction, and he believes it, and now tries to make it look like it was his deduction, not his friend's. Or something along those lines
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Whats even the point? If they read the books they wont get spoiled, if not you spoiled them for no reason..are you spoiling harry potter or what oO
like 2 years ago i played a ladder game, his opener was "joeffry dies, gl hf", god ppl on the internet are such dickheads ^^
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The main problem with Season 5 is that Brann and Sansa are already up to date with their timelines for the most part.
There's very little they can accomplish with those characters in the next season that isn't potentially from TWOW.
I'm going to guess that with Brann they're going to do a lot of dreamlike flashbacks like the visions in Winterfell and such, and with Sansa potentially showing the politics of the Eyrie while Baelish assumes control.
Could also be those two characters get phased out so we don't see them next season, we have plenty of material with Arya, Stannis, Davos, Sam, Jon, Tyrion and Dany not to mention Dorne and the Ironborn to make a full season.
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On June 20 2014 01:47 graan wrote:
2 years ago i played a ladder game, his opener was "joeffry dies, gl hf", god ppl on the internet are such dickheads ^^
LMAO, i am so sorry to hear, but that's (kinda..) hillarious  what a prick (hope you won)
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lets hope graan did read the books before that :D
also:
Not everyone who has theories about stuff is a book reader. You simply cannot moderate the other thread based on that, otherwise you spoil yourself
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A surprising number of people have book/show spoilers as their user names in Dota 2
Ruined Joffrey's death for my fiancee as she was watching me play
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I agree that it is impossible to guess that L+R=J in the show. Without the Tower of Joy and "promise me Ned" there is no evidence of value. That doesn't mean they read the books, just one of the show watchers in their group had to google it or read it on twitter, or any other number of outside sources, but the idea that the theory came 100% from just watching the show is not believable and I don't really think it's even possible.
The the only show "evidence" is that Ned is honorable. So you have to believe Ned lying to his wife, children, Jon, and Robert is more "honorable" than having a bastard and taking complete responsibility for the child, with no additional context from the Tower of Joy events, or Jojen telling Bran about Howland Reed visiting the Tourney at Harrenhal where Rhaegar named Lyanna the Queen of Beauty instead of his wife Elia. We also lack Barristan Selmy telling Dany that Rhaegar loved Lyanna, all we have from the show is Robert's version where Rhaegar killed her. The show doesn't have Ned recalling how Lyanna confided to him concerning her opinion of Robert: that the man will never keep to one bed. She had heard that Robert had an illegitimate daughter in the Vale of Arryn, apparently Mya Stone. Eddard attempted to persuade her that what Robert did before the betrothal was insignificant and that Robert would change. She was not convinced. Just based on the show it can be argued that Eddard taking Jon and caring for him when he made a mistake of adultery is honorable, much like Robb in the books marrying Jeyne Westerling after bedding her.
Based strictly on the show, even if someone some how came up with a theory that someone other than Ned was Jon's father, there is nothing to suggest Jon wouldn't be a bastard with no more claim to the throne or anything else than Gendry. And of course in both the books and the show, once you join the Night's Watch all your birth rights are lost anyway.
For those interested here is the complete summary of Lyanna and Rhaegar from the books.
and here is a summary of the book theories about Jon's parents.
and here is the summary from the show:
Season 1
King Robert Baratheon visits Lyanna's tomb under Winterfell almost immediately after arriving. As part of their romance, he would bring her feathers from an exotic southern bird. During this visit, he places one in the hand of her statue. Robert says the statue doesn't do her justice. He becomes emotional and tells Eddard how he relives killing Rhaegar Targaryen again and again in his dreams for what he did to Lyanna. He asks Eddard if it was necessary to bury Lyanna in a cold tomb rather than somewhere in the sunlight, but Eddard responds that she was of the North and of House Stark; this is her place.
In King's Landing, Robert shares a drink with his wife, Cersei Lannister, and they begin to talk about Lyanna Stark for the first time in their marriage. Robert tells her how much Lyanna meant to him, even though now he cannot even remember her face. He says, "She was the only thing I ever wanted, someone took her away from me, and Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left." Cersei reminds him that she once had feelings for him. She asks if there had ever been even a moment when he had loved her. Robert says no. He asks her if that makes her feel better or worse. Cersei cannot even feel sorrow at this. She says that she doesn't feel anything anymore.
When Eddard discovers that Cersei has been having an incestuous affair with her twin brother Jaime, he confronts her. Lord Eddard says he knows that she always hated Robert. Cersei tells him she loved Robert. When she was young and he was handsome and muscular. All the girls wanted him, and he was hers. But then, that love turned to hate on their wedding night, when he came to bed drunk and afterwards muttered Lyanna's name in her ear.
Bran Stark shows Osha the tombs under Winterfell and gives a quick summary of the events leading to the civil war: how Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, who was betrothed to Robert Baratheon, and the Mad King then killed Lyanna's brother and father, triggering the war.
There is no explanation of how Ned could have gotten Jon from Lyanna in the show. There is no evidence that she was pregnant, or that Ned ever met up again after she was kidnapped, or any evidence that Rhaegar loved her.
Even in the books it's still just a good theory, and one that I suspect the vast majority of readers don't come up with without reading it some where else first.
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On June 20 2014 02:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
lets hope graan did read the books before that :D
also:
Not everyone who has theories about stuff is a book reader. You simply cannot moderate the other thread based on that, otherwise you spoil yourself
I did not, lost that game horribly totaly messed up my build - great strategy tbh I did try to spoil him with sopranos and the wire stuff, but it had no effect
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As long as there was ANY mention of Lyanna being kidnapped by Rhaegar, it is not inconceivable that a show viewer could stumble upon it.
Assuming Jon's parentage is important, there are two conceivable theories you can pull out form the show:
1) He's the son of Lyanna and Bob
2) He's the son of Lyanna and the Targaryen kidnapper
It's easy to discard Ned being the father either. It's uncharacteristic for him, and there are no women - living or dead - interesting enough to be mothers that have been mentioned in any way. Unless you go crazy and assume he's the son of Lyanna and Ned.
You don't really need the kind of hard evidence presented in the books for it. Books pretty much lay it out in the open.
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On June 20 2014 01:26 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 01:17 Hondelul wrote:
If you PM everyone who makes a correct guess you spoil for sure someone. Imo you should just stop that as it's equally bad. this was the first time i PMed ppl from that thread, cuz it's fukcing out of the realm of possibilities show viewers can figure out L+R=J. I would bet my house, my life, and everything i have, that it s not a deduction, but they actually know about the theory They came with arguments like Jon and Arya look like Starks, and the rest of the kids like Tullies. Sounds familiar from somewhere?
Don't make that bet. Speculating the possibility of R+L=J is not out of the realm of possibilities for unsullied. Quite to the contrary, either Robert+L=J or R+L=J are the prevailing consensus among the heavier thinkers.
Is it truly devoid of book influence? Probably not. I imagine that at some point a bookwalker hinted at it, but the reason to speculate it is there and legitimate unsullied have taken to it.
Discussing "house looks" the way they did is outside the realm of possibility, particularly where Starks are concerned.
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EPT
