EPTOf course I'm exaggerating a bit here, but making a TV show just isn't that simple. I agree that Littlefinger looked like a bit of an idiot in that scene, but you gotta make countless compromises when making a show. This was probably one of them. Maybe there was not enough time to show how Littlefinger planned it all, or maybe they wanted to put the focus on Sansa instead of Littlefinger and wrote the scenes for her, or maybe they know more than we do about where Littlefinger will end up. Or maybe they didn't quite know how to write Littlefinger. There's countless reasons why things happened the way they happened. And only very few have to do with incompetence.
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 509
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
Of course I'm exaggerating a bit here, but making a TV show just isn't that simple. I agree that Littlefinger looked like a bit of an idiot in that scene, but you gotta make countless compromises when making a show. This was probably one of them. Maybe there was not enough time to show how Littlefinger planned it all, or maybe they wanted to put the focus on Sansa instead of Littlefinger and wrote the scenes for her, or maybe they know more than we do about where Littlefinger will end up. Or maybe they didn't quite know how to write Littlefinger. There's countless reasons why things happened the way they happened. And only very few have to do with incompetence. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 03 2014 05:46 cosine wrote: You don't have to save anything, I don't care about spoilers anymore. I'm not even salty, just bored. Joffrey was a liability, so his death was good for the Lannisters. Especially Tywin, who gets a completely compliant Tommen on the throne. I'm sure something will happen to Tywin eventually, and sure it'll be cathartic, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been strolling through this whole story without any setbacks. Everything's coming up Tywin. Same thing in Essos. You can't even say Dany has a storyline. Stories require conflict, and for seasons now she's just been showing up at cities saying "I'm mother of dragons, free your slaves this is my town now." Then everyone declares her a pretty, pretty princess and is completely devoted to her. All her opposition are extras. Does she even have an antagonist on that whole damn continent? Her character arc was like done in season two, and they've just been kicking the can on her crossing the sea and actually becoming relevant. Yet still they devote so much screentime to her, to what end? So they can develop a romantic subplot between her handmaiden and a eunuch? Every other storyline has more interesting things to see. A Song of Ice and Fire is a story of every single side losing all the time at the same time. You say the Lannisters get everything they want? Well, lets check on whats going on with the Lannisters right now: Tywin is dead. Tyrion killed him. Tyrion fled for his life to the other side of the planet, and is now a slave. Jaime already had his career of being a badass ruined when he got his hand cut off, and now hes getting dragged off by Breeane to face possible execution by Zomibe Catelyn. Joffery is dead. Cersei thought she was Tywin Lannister with breasts after Twin himself died, ran Kings Landing into the ground incredible hard, lets the Church re-arm itself, tried to fuck over Margaery, but screws up so hard that the church arrests Cersei for being a whore and mind-breaks her. Kevan Lannister stepped in and was doing a good job repairing the damage Cersei did, but then Varys kills him. Tommen is still a boy king. Myrcella is in Dorne, basically a political hostage, with half her face cut off. So, where does that leave the Lannisters now? Jaime kidnapped, Cersei mind-fucked, Tyrion in exile, Tommen is Tommen, and things aren't looking great for Myrcella. Doesn't sound like the Lannisters are doing any better than anyone else. Although I guess the Tyrells are winning now, but its only a matter of time till they start getting massacred. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:15 Koerage wrote: it was pretty stupid they didnt have the singer there; he was there in the first season so its not like he actually didnt exist or something. might be the actor couldnt/didnt want to come back tho, but it wouldve made much more sense if he was there. Yeah it's a little unfortunate since they had the right setup. Probably budget related if I had to guess. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On June 03 2014 05:46 cosine wrote: You don't have to save anything, I don't care about spoilers anymore. I'm not even salty, just bored. Joffrey was a liability, so his death was good for the Lannisters. Especially Tywin, who gets a completely compliant Tommen on the throne. I'm sure something will happen to Tywin eventually, and sure it'll be cathartic, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been strolling through this whole story without any setbacks. Everything's coming up Tywin. Same thing in Essos. You can't even say Dany has a storyline. Stories require conflict, and for seasons now she's just been showing up at cities saying "I'm mother of dragons, free your slaves this is my town now." Then everyone declares her a pretty, pretty princess and is completely devoted to her. All her opposition are extras. Does she even have an antagonist on that whole damn continent? Her character arc was like done in season two, and they've just been kicking the can on her crossing the sea and actually becoming relevant. Yet still they devote so much screentime to her, to what end? So they can develop a romantic subplot between her handmaiden and a eunuch? Every other storyline has more interesting things to see. whoa whoa whoa, you're in the wrong thread homie. Man I thought I was in the wrong thread for a second when I read this. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: That is such a dead argument... Nobody asks for a 1:1 adaption, it is simply not possible time wise. But why change things that wouldn't take more time? There are little things like Oberyn mentioning he was in Casterly Rock with his father instead of his mother (but even this is just a retarded change), but there are also bigger things like ADDING extra scenes that are just plain stupid (bran, asha) instead of developing other storylines further (not to mention the unnecessary boob scenes). There is also no real reason why stannis is totally different, and other characters as well. Except you want to imply that they have to dumb things down cause the tv show has to appeal to a wider audience (= a more stupid one), but then again, this is obviously the reason... Yes, they very obviously do dumb things down to appeal to a wider audience. That's because TV shows on HBO do have a wider audience than fantasy books. If they wouldn't dumb things down, then not enough people would watch the show and it'd be cancelled after one season (or, more likely, not even picked up in the first place). There's lots I could respond here, but that boob comment of yours just shows that you're not aware how crucial gratuitous nudity is for the success of a show. Why do you think every single successful HBO show as of late has tons of nudity and sex (True Blood, Boardwalk Empire, etc.)? Personally, I find it just as annoying as you, but like it or not, there is a very sizable portion of people out there that wouldn't watch these shows were it not for the tits and asses they get to ogle at. It's what HBO does, and they have been quite successful at mixing mindless sex and violence with quality writing and acting. | ||
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cosine
313 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:16 Sentenal wrote: A Song of Ice and Fire is a story of every single side losing all the time at the same time. You say the Lannisters get everything they want? Well, lets check on whats going on with the Lannisters right now: Tywin is dead. Tyrion killed him. Tyrion fled for his life to the other side of the planet, and is now a slave. Jaime already had his career of being a badass ruined when he got his hand cut off, and now hes getting dragged off by Breeane to face possible execution by Zomibe Catelyn. Joffery is dead. Cersei thought she was Tywin Lannister with breasts after Twin himself died, ran Kings Landing into the ground incredible hard, lets the Church re-arm itself, tried to fuck over Margaery, but screws up so hard that the church arrests Cersei for being a whore and mind-breaks her. Kevan Lannister stepped in and was doing a good job repairing the damage Cersei did, but then Varys kills him. Tommen is still a boy king. Myrcella is in Dorne, basically a political hostage, with half her face cut off. So, where does that leave the Lannisters now? Jaime kidnapped, Cersei mind-fucked, Tyrion in exile, Tommen is Tommen, and things aren't looking great for Myrcella. Doesn't sound like the Lannisters are doing any better than anyone else. Although I guess the Tyrells are winning now, but its only a matter of time till they start getting massacred. See all that at least sounds interesting. Now only if it would actually happen in the show. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:22 Conti wrote: Yes, they very obviously do dumb things down to appeal to a wider audience. That's because TV shows on HBO do have a wider audience than fantasy books. If they wouldn't dumb things down, then not enough people would watch the show and it'd be cancelled after one season (or, more likely, not even picked up in the first place). There's lots I could respond here, but that boob comment of yours just shows that you're not aware how crucial gratuitous nudity is for the success of a show. Why do you think every single successful HBO show as of late has tons of nudity and sex (True Blood, Boardwalk Empire, etc.)? Personally, I find it just as annoying as you, but like it or not, there is a very sizable portion of people out there that wouldn't watch these shows were it not for the tits and asses they get to ogle at. It's what HBO does, and they have been quite successful at mixing mindless sex and violence with quality writing and acting. Well it is hard to argue against your premise that they COULD NOT do it otherwise. We just aren't involved directly, i just don't see the WHY in some cases. And yeah nudity is "important" for HBO, i get that. But in asoiaf there is already tons of nudity. I mean i too like to see some beautiful bodies, but even if this is HBOs style, i don't think you need the extra scenes to have a successful show, there are lots of other shows with no nudity at all...) But whatever, you simply took the easy route with my boob comment, i would be interested what you think about other aspects tbh | ||
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shark.
593 Posts
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
why would he tell Barristan that Jorah used to be a spy? | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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graan
Germany589 Posts
The fight was well done imho, all the lines from the books like in season 1 - the accusation against tywin was a little bit off but wont matter in the end. The singer with them was so great in the books i dont get why they cut him, he wasnt there in season1 when they arrived (right?) but a total stranger would have done the job aswell with not to much trouble.. and now littlefinger, the one who is supposed to think three steps ahead relies on sansa lying? i got the feeling he is very relieved, kinda suprised, when she saves his ass.. The hound and arya at the eyrie? the scene was great dont get me wrong, but now the aunt is dead and they just turn back? like no one will pay ransom for arya stark? And in the east we have a new story line with the unsuilled getting humanised.. dont realy know where they are going with that.. The jorah change is my biggest problem. The big big strugle from daenerys to release her longest adviser is not even in the show - i am kinda scared the daenerys story line will be even worse than in the books. | ||
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way2mash4u
Germany183 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:16 Sentenal wrote: A Song of Ice and Fire is a story of every single side losing all the time at the same time. You say the Lannisters get everything they want? Well, lets check on whats going on with the Lannisters right now: Tywin is dead. Tyrion killed him. Tyrion fled for his life to the other side of the planet, and is now a slave. Jaime already had his career of being a badass ruined when he got his hand cut off, and now hes getting dragged off by Breeane to face possible execution by Zomibe Catelyn. Joffery is dead. Cersei thought she was Tywin Lannister with breasts after Twin himself died, ran Kings Landing into the ground incredible hard, lets the Church re-arm itself, tried to fuck over Margaery, but screws up so hard that the church arrests Cersei for being a whore and mind-breaks her. Kevan Lannister stepped in and was doing a good job repairing the damage Cersei did, but then Varys kills him. Tommen is still a boy king. Myrcella is in Dorne, basically a political hostage, with half her face cut off. So, where does that leave the Lannisters now? Jaime kidnapped, Cersei mind-fucked, Tyrion in exile, Tommen is Tommen, and things aren't looking great for Myrcella. Doesn't sound like the Lannisters are doing any better than anyone else. Although I guess the Tyrells are winning now, but its only a matter of time till they start getting massacred. Man, all that was so satisfying. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
i hope you didnt lose too much of your mind over recent events  (certainly enough to get spoiled for the next 3 seasons) i was gonna say, patience brother. but yeah, as you can see by other's post, shit did happen to the lannisters. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:42 The_Red_Viper wrote: Well it is hard to argue against your premise that they COULD NOT do it otherwise. We just aren't involved directly, i just don't see the WHY in some cases. And yeah nudity is "important" for HBO, i get that. But in asoiaf there is already tons of nudity. I mean i too like to see some beautiful bodies, but even if this is HBOs style, i don't think you need the extra scenes to have a successful show, there are lots of other shows with no nudity at all...) But whatever, you simply took the easy route with my boob comment, i would be interested what you think about other aspects tbh I'm not sure I could explain the "why" with anything but "that's what a large group of people like to see". As I said, I find it a tad annoying at times, too, but I just accept it as one of the things I have to deal with to see the books made into a proper TV show. As for your other points: But why change things that wouldn't take more time? Generally speaking, there's many reasons. For instance, removing the singer for the LF/Lysa scene simplifies it. It is one less character the writers have to introduce and characterize (which would probably take another minute or so of screen time). It is one less character the audience has to get to know. It is one less character that the audience has to feel stupid about because they're not sure if they should know that guy or not. One less character simplifies the whole scene, requires less dialogue and less time overall to get the same point across. It puts the focus away from a minor character that will never be seen again and towards the main characters. Oberyn mentioning his father instead of his mother.. I honestly have no idea why they changed that. Wouldn't make a difference to me. The extra scenes.. first of all, I agree with absolutely everybody that the added Asha-saving-Theon scene was seriously stupid and really badly written. But I see why they had to at least include an Asha-saving-Theon scene. First of all, she supposedly plays a role in future seasons, and this was a simple way of showing that she still exists. In addition, they wanted to show that Asha was finding out about Theon's change, and thus that he was dead to her. Just having them send her his dick in a box and then immediately have her say "Welp, no dick? He's dead to me now." would make her incredibly unsympathetic towards the audience and come off as a heartless bitch. They had to find a way to make her see with her own eyes how broken Theon was. They did it with that scene. The basic idea was fine, the execution, however, was horrible. Same with Bran: They simply needed to give his group something to do other than "Let's go to the north!". Besides, the chance of having Bran and Jon almost meet was just too good to pass up, it created some nice tension for a few minutes. Remember, non-book readers had no idea whatsoever whether they'd meet or not. We, of course, knew that they couldn't possibly meet, but the average Joe did not know that and probably enjoyed the scenes a lot more because of that. Stannis.. yeah. No idea. I'm hoping that the writers simply know more about where he'll end up than us, but for now he seems more like a botched character adaption. I suppose it happens when you have dozens and dozens of characters to adapt. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:41 cosine wrote: See all that at least sounds interesting. Now only if it would actually happen in the show. Its coming. While I haven't been keeping up with the HBO show, Tywin is killed at the very end of Storm of Swords, which should be the very end of Season 4. A Feast of Crows ends with Cersei owning herself, and then Dance with Dragons ends with Kevan getting killed. So its pretty much just downhill for the Lannisters from this point on. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8760 Posts
On June 03 2014 06:59 zatic wrote: Finally got to watch it. Holy shit was that fight well done. Amazing choreography! yeah totally. I really was afraid it would not be good as I noticed that there were only like 5 minutes left of the episode and thought "no way they are showing the duel now". Well, the rest was good/ok I guess if you are at peace with the fact that the series offers a different experience - on many levels. | ||
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Cynry
810 Posts
-the fights at the Wall -Tyrion's escape and Tywin's death -lady Stoneheart -probably more that I forgot about All in last 2 episodes ? That could fit, but damn, seems like a lot to condense to match the book's ending... | ||
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sperY
Serbia444 Posts
But...but.. Oberyn  I remember reading this year back. It was the single saddest thing for me to see Oberyn killed like that. I loved that character more than any other... Oh god. Now i feel bad again. :/ Edit: I've changed my mind a bit. I still feel the fight was good, but it could have been done a bit better. This comic from the TV series thread shows more detail i think: http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/ | ||
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