SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 02 2014 22:06 ludic123 wrote: hi guys. Just wondering how far into the books the tv-series have come? I'm contemplating starting to read them. THE WAIT IS TOO LONG!
Starting with the third one is necesarry, since some plot lines have been stripped from aSoS and will be put into later seasons. You won't be able to start any later unless you start to jump around and catch up on certain chapters.
But you should just read them from the start. They are pretty good books.
EDIT: To make it clear, there is still gonna be a lot of confusing things if you start with Storm of Swords, certain characters are alive in the books but dead in the show and vice versa, some have different names, and some just behave quite different, but watching the show will have given you most of the major events in the first two books.
On June 02 2014 22:06 ludic123 wrote: hi guys. Just wondering how far into the books the tv-series have come? I'm contemplating starting to read them. THE WAIT IS TOO LONG!
A bit behind the end of book 3 and a bit of book 4 here and there. However, you have to start reading from book 1. You CANNOT jump in book 4 and expect to have any clue what is happening. The books are different from the show. Major events are similar but a lot of the little details are different, characters that don't exist in the show, events that happened in a different order, happened differently or not at all, etc.
And trust me, it'll be worth reading it from book 1. There's so much more insight the books give into the story and characters. Suddenly, all those things you thought to be plot holes in the show start to make sense, because the show left important details out.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Missandei and Grey Worm was weird. Really curious what they're planning to do with them. Are we going to get Eunuch-sex-scenes?
Sansa saving Littlefinger made sense and was nicely done. It was out of character for Littlefinger to have no plan for that little trial, though.
Also, I absolutely love Sansa's metamorphosis in the show.
Arya and the Hound at the gate was weird. I mean, just because the crazy aunt died does not mean that nobody cares about Arya's well being, right? There are other lords and ladies (plus Littlefinger) who would pay good money for Arya still, right? But instead they'll most likely just turn around and walk away again, which just.. doesn't make any sense. Arya's laugh was hilarious, though.
The fight.. holy crap that was just perfect. Oberyn's actor was brilliant throughout the entire season, and this was no exception, the way he talked himself into a rage only to be brutally murdered.. damn.
As for the lack of poison, I don't see a problem. The Mountain had a spear put into his body at multiple places, he is very much about to die. And so Qyburn will come, say that he can maybe save the Mountain after all, he'll start his little experiments while everyone is told that the Mountain is dying slowly.. and next season we'll have Robert Strong, just like in the books.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Wat. I mean, sure, a lot of newly written material sucked or wasn't so good, but there are also countless new scenes in the show that are just absolutely brilliant. Pretty much everything to do with Tywin, for starters. All those dialogues with Tyrion this season (Tyrion and Oberyn in the cells was a breathtakingly amazing scene). There's many, many newly written scenes that are really damn good.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Wat. I mean, sure, a lot of newly written material sucked or wasn't so good, but there are also countless new scenes in the show that are just absolutely brilliant. Pretty much everything to do with Tywin, for starters. All those dialogues with Tyrion this season (Tyrion and Oberyn in the cells was a breathtakingly amazing scene). There's many, many newly written scenes that are really damn good.
IIRC the Tyrion-Oberyn scene was basically 1:1 out of the book. Tywin's scenes were great , even though i didn't like the scenes with Arya that much (i think it didn't make much sense) I am not really saying that they can't add new scenes that aren't great, but everytime they added "new plot" it was awful imo. But hey maybe they will do better
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
I disagree. I think the majority of their deviations are actually quite nice. Just to name a few:
- Talisa >>> Jeyne
- Despite no Ramsay in s2 they recovered nicely with a better reveal for him in s3.
- Jamie's return prior to Joffrey's death has worked out to be much better. He has more of a relationship with Tyrion as a result.
- Every additional Tywin scene, especially the ones at Harrenhal with Arya.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Wat. I mean, sure, a lot of newly written material sucked or wasn't so good, but there are also countless new scenes in the show that are just absolutely brilliant. Pretty much everything to do with Tywin, for starters. All those dialogues with Tyrion this season (Tyrion and Oberyn in the cells was a breathtakingly amazing scene). There's many, many newly written scenes that are really damn good.
IIRC the Tyrion-Oberyn scene was basically 1:1 out of the book. Tywin's scenes were great , even though i didn't like the scenes with Arya that much (i think it didn't make much sense) I am not really saying that they can't add new scenes that aren't great, but everytime they added "new plot" it was awful imo. But hey maybe they will do better
I really need to grab the books again and reread it. Tyrion and Oberyn did talk in the books, yes, and Oberyn did talk about seeing Tyrion before. But unless I'm really misremembering something, in the book it was just an ordinary scene. In the show, it was one of the most emotional scenes this season, and both actors were absolutely brilliant (like they always are). The whole atmosphere of the scene was entirely different in the show.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
I disagree. I think the majority of their deviations are actually quite nice. Just to name a few:
- Talisa >>> Jeyne
- Despite no Ramsay in s2 they recovered nicely with a better reveal for him in s3.
- Jamie's return prior to Joffrey's death has worked out to be much better. He has more of a relationship with Tyrion as a result.
- Every additional Tywin scene, especially the ones at Harrenhal with Arya.
-Why Talisa >>> Jeyne? cause she got naked? I don't know man, i really would prefer them giving characters more depth that are in the book aswell instead of making new characters...
-Ramsay is fine i think, but then again, it isn't really NEW stuff, just shown differently.
-I am not sure about Jaime, didn't think much about it, imo it made no big difference
- Tywin's scenes with Arya felt sooooo wrong, why would he ever talk to her, it was just stupid really (even though it was acted well)
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Wat. I mean, sure, a lot of newly written material sucked or wasn't so good, but there are also countless new scenes in the show that are just absolutely brilliant. Pretty much everything to do with Tywin, for starters. All those dialogues with Tyrion this season (Tyrion and Oberyn in the cells was a breathtakingly amazing scene). There's many, many newly written scenes that are really damn good.
IIRC the Tyrion-Oberyn scene was basically 1:1 out of the book. Tywin's scenes were great , even though i didn't like the scenes with Arya that much (i think it didn't make much sense) I am not really saying that they can't add new scenes that aren't great, but everytime they added "new plot" it was awful imo. But hey maybe they will do better
I really need to grab the books again and reread it. Tyrion and Oberyn did talk in the books, yes, and Oberyn did talk about seeing Tyrion before. But unless I'm really misremembering something, in the book it was just an ordinary scene. In the show, it was one of the most emotional scenes this season, and both actors were absolutely brilliant (like they always are). The whole atmosphere of the scene was entirely different in the show.
I think it was pretty much 1:1, maybe i should reread it again though.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
I disagree. I think the majority of their deviations are actually quite nice. Just to name a few:
- Talisa >>> Jeyne
- Despite no Ramsay in s2 they recovered nicely with a better reveal for him in s3.
- Jamie's return prior to Joffrey's death has worked out to be much better. He has more of a relationship with Tyrion as a result.
- Every additional Tywin scene, especially the ones at Harrenhal with Arya.
I hated the Talisa change. He met a wandering nurse and abandoned his honor and duty strictly out of lust, for a woman who didn't seem to have any qualms about being lovers without marrying, and married her despite extensive counsel from his mother and his bannermen and being `4-5 years older than in the books... Comparitively he wed Jeyne after sleeping with her in a moment of weakness after just hearing Bran and Rickon had just been killed by his good friend Theon, and took the responsibility of marrying her after that to protect her honor over protecting his own. It was a very Eddard thing to do.
Jaime being there earlier worked ok, though the changes in the time line led to the terrible Cersei rape scene. That was a poor adaptation of a book scene, rather than completely original though.
Dany's season 2 original scenes included some of the worst writing on any show I have bother to continue watching.
Arya and Tywin was good acting, but non-sensical interactions where he treats Arya with more respect and patience than he treats his own children. Arya might as well have been orphan Annie with Daddy Warbucks as well as she was treated, and as much leniency as she was given. As a whole I much preferred Arya's book story line.
There are some completely original scenes which were well done, but as a whole, the more they make up the worse the show is.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
I disagree. I think the majority of their deviations are actually quite nice. Just to name a few:
- Talisa >>> Jeyne
- Despite no Ramsay in s2 they recovered nicely with a better reveal for him in s3.
- Jamie's return prior to Joffrey's death has worked out to be much better. He has more of a relationship with Tyrion as a result.
- Every additional Tywin scene, especially the ones at Harrenhal with Arya.
-Why Talisa >>> Jeyne? cause she got naked? I don't know man, i really would prefer them giving characters more depth that are in the book aswell instead of making new characters...
-Ramsay is fine i think, but then again, it isn't really NEW stuff, just shown differently.
-I am not sure about Jaime, didn't think much about it, imo it made no big difference
- Tywin's scenes with Arya felt sooooo wrong, why would he ever talk to her, it was just stupid really (even though it was acted well)
Well, for starters Talisa actually dies at the RW rather than fall off into irrelevancy. I thought that was a much better move, it added to the tragedy of an already dramatic scene. You actually get to see a bit more as to why Robb fell for her and fucked everything up.
Ramsay's reveal is new stuff. In the book he's responsible for Rodrik's death and flaying the children. I think it better that in the show this is put on Theon instead. It further reinforces him as a grey character and makes it harder to have sympathy for him when he becomes Reek.
I think Jamie's added development makes a noticeable difference in that, much like with Theon, it reinforces the perplexing feelings towards how he is viewed. He really has genuine compassion for Tyrion which few people do, and you feel it much more strongly in the show. Furthermore, it's going to make the revelation about Tysha stronger as well when their relationship breaks apart.
Why not talk to Arya? He's hunkered down for awhile at Harrenhal, may as well hear a tale or two from the lowborn. I took the scene as Tywin seeing Arya in disguise to be so beneath him and no threat that he could open up a few of his own reflections and feelings rather than maintain his usual stern demeanor as a powerful lord. Who's going to know? I can think of no other time in the series in which Tywin has ever shown even a crack in his armor....well aside from apparently being a hypocrite with a desire for whores (assuming this is even still planned for the finale).
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
Wat. I mean, sure, a lot of newly written material sucked or wasn't so good, but there are also countless new scenes in the show that are just absolutely brilliant. Pretty much everything to do with Tywin, for starters. All those dialogues with Tyrion this season (Tyrion and Oberyn in the cells was a breathtakingly amazing scene). There's many, many newly written scenes that are really damn good.
IIRC the Tyrion-Oberyn scene was basically 1:1 out of the book. Tywin's scenes were great , even though i didn't like the scenes with Arya that much (i think it didn't make much sense) I am not really saying that they can't add new scenes that aren't great, but everytime they added "new plot" it was awful imo. But hey maybe they will do better
I really need to grab the books again and reread it. Tyrion and Oberyn did talk in the books, yes, and Oberyn did talk about seeing Tyrion before. But unless I'm really misremembering something, in the book it was just an ordinary scene. In the show, it was one of the most emotional scenes this season, and both actors were absolutely brilliant (like they always are). The whole atmosphere of the scene was entirely different in the show.
Here is the book to show summary from Westeros.org:
Tyrion IX: Two significant portions of this chapter appear on screen. The meeting with Bronn runs largely as in the novel, although Lollys Stokeworth is a somewhat more notable character in the book due to her having been raped during the riot in A Clash of Kings and pregnant with a bastard. Moreover, it is her mother, Lady Tanda, who rules, rather than her father (yet another example of the writers changing ruling ladies into ruling lords). Bronn’s quip regarding Lollys’s older sister Falyse dying by falling off her horse is obviously inspired by the fact that Bronn arranges for such a fall for the aged Lady Tanda, which leads to her eventual death. As in the novels, Bronn is willing to consider fighting Gregor Clegane—as Tyrion is already considering a trial by combat at this point, despite the second day of testimony not being begun—and offers a similar notion of the strategy he uses. But Tyrion cannot beat Cersei’s price, and the two part ways, much as shown. The other significant scene is Oberyn Martell’s discussion of his first meeting with Tyrion, in which many of the details are per the novel. However, again, in the novels Oberyn and Elia are said to travel to Casterly Rock with their mother, who was the ruling Princess of Dorne, rather than their father as claimed on the show. Other than that detail, Oberyn’s offer to champion Tyrion is very much motivated with the exact same reasoning in the novel: he wants a chance to avenge the deaths of Elia and her children by killing Gregor Clegane.
So it wasn't one for one exactly, but it was a close adaptation.
On June 02 2014 22:00 Doraemon wrote: i think the show is gonna lose some steam next season...hmmph
idk, aFfC and aDwD are more focused on character development and worldbuilding and less so on pivotal events that the show really has a lot more freedom to come up with its own material this time around. In fact, I actually found aDwD to be on par with GoT to say the least.
The problem is that "its own material" sucked almost every time till now...
I disagree. I think the majority of their deviations are actually quite nice. Just to name a few:
- Talisa >>> Jeyne
- Despite no Ramsay in s2 they recovered nicely with a better reveal for him in s3.
- Jamie's return prior to Joffrey's death has worked out to be much better. He has more of a relationship with Tyrion as a result.
- Every additional Tywin scene, especially the ones at Harrenhal with Arya.
-Why Talisa >>> Jeyne? cause she got naked? I don't know man, i really would prefer them giving characters more depth that are in the book aswell instead of making new characters...
-Ramsay is fine i think, but then again, it isn't really NEW stuff, just shown differently.
-I am not sure about Jaime, didn't think much about it, imo it made no big difference
- Tywin's scenes with Arya felt sooooo wrong, why would he ever talk to her, it was just stupid really (even though it was acted well)
Well, for starters Talisa actually dies at the RW rather than fall off into irrelevancy. I thought that was a much better move, it added to the tragedy of an already dramatic scene. You actually get to see a bit more as to why Robb fell for her and fucked everything up.
Ramsay's reveal is new stuff. In the book he's responsible for Rodrik's death and flaying the children. I think it better that in the show this is put on Theon instead. It further reinforces him as a grey character and makes it harder to have sympathy for him when he becomes Reek.
I think Jamie's added development makes a noticeable difference in that, much like with Theon, it reinforces the perplexing feelings towards how he is viewed. He really has genuine compassion for Tyrion which few people do, and you feel it much more strongly in the show. Furthermore, it's going to make the revelation about Tysha stronger as well when their relationship breaks apart.
Why not talk to Arya? He's hunkered down for awhile at Harrenhal, may as well hear a tale or two from the lowborn. I took the scene as Tywin seeing Arya in disguise to be so beneath him and no threat that he could open up a few of his own reflections and feelings rather than maintain his usual stern demeanor as a powerful lord. Who's going to know? I can think of no other time in the series in which Tywin has ever shown even a crack in his armor....well aside from apparently being a hypocrite with a desire for whores (assuming this is even still planned for the finale).
Well i think these changes were all more or less ok, i didn't think they were great, but whatever. When i see stuff like the bran and asha plotlines that are completely made up, i am not so happy about new stuff from them though Talisa was bad too though, at least for my liking ^^ I mean, why can't they add more things from the book like patchface for example, i think he would make such good tv and atmosphere... Instead they show us boob scenes every week that oftentimes add nothing (except for euh boobs)
EPT
