EPTI don't envy you having to tread the line between letting spoilers disguised as actual fresh discussion slip through and overmoderating.
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 460
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
I don't envy you having to tread the line between letting spoilers disguised as actual fresh discussion slip through and overmoderating. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 25 2014 05:24 GENerateSAYing wrote: I'm sure he won't. GRRM has said many times that he hates story's that are cheesing where the hero runs in to save the day. Looking at his work so far, I'm sure you don't have to worry ^-^. Yeah i think he will do it just fine, but you never know :D On April 25 2014 05:25 KadaverBB wrote: Thank you <3 I think its kinda funny that the other thread totally has turned into another GoT type scenario. Everybody suspects everybody of being a book reader, theres 0 trust, and everyone hates everybody and everything  Haha yeah, now that you say it^^ | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
On April 25 2014 05:06 KwarK wrote: GRRM gave us a long background about how wargs, if killed, can transfer into the animal. We know the Red God can resurrect people. Melissandre is getting crazy new powers and is there on the scene when Jon dies. Jon uses Ghost as a life boat, gets ressed as AA. Erm. I just want to point out that as far as I can remember the last Jon seen ended with something along the lines of "daggers in his back and stomach". That's not dead. Yet. Obviously GRRM has invested too much into the character to get completely rid of him (have any characters that have their own chapters actually died so far?), it's highly unlikely Jon is gone, his "death" scene just seems to be your typical cliffhanger. | ||
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DODswe4
Sweden2157 Posts
On April 25 2014 20:20 Monsen wrote: Erm. I just want to point out that as far as I can remember the last Jon seen ended with something along the lines of "daggers in his back and stomach". That's not dead. Yet. Obviously GRRM has invested too much into the character to get completely rid of him (have any characters that have their own chapters actually died so far?), it's highly unlikely Jon is gone, his "death" scene just seems to be your typical cliffhanger. Eddard Stark has hes own chapters, so yes they can die. Catelyn to if you count her as dead (depends on how you see it I suppose) | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
Brienne is another one of those cases that are "presumed dead", right? im always assuming prematurely though.. i did some research and apparently shes alive. Apparently thats how i deal with all those characters dying. Just assume they are dead instead of hoping they are alive. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
It's definitely possible. I don't think Jon will die though. It's just like the Arya chapter where the Hound knocks her out with his axe, it's a cliffhanger. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
there are certain deaths at certain times that simply make so little sense that GRRM wouldn't do it because their arcs aren't fully completed. we all know Dany will at some point contact someone from westeros or get there in one way or another, so she likely won't die until that is realized. same for Arya, killing her off before she returns to westeros is obviously not going to happen. the same is with jon. when he "died" in book 5 it wasn't even really a question as to whether he was truly dead, its obvious he's not because its clear his narrative purpose has not been fulfilled. same with sansa (if you ever feared for her, though she never was in any real danger). GRRM would have to be real stupid to have Arya wander around for 3 books and randomly die to the Hound, and he's not stupid. it's not really a cliffhanger, because if you really take a step back and think about it, there's no way he'd kill her off there. so as for the ending being happy, GRRM has said its a bittersweet ending. which means the others will be defeated but there will be losses. i do think certain things are virtually guaranteed happen. 1. Jon and Dany meet in one way or another 2. Bran interacts with the Starks again 3. Jon and Arya meet in some way 4. Arya and her wolf reunite 5. Sansa interacts with her surviving siblings 6. Sandor and Gregor meet in some way 7. Tyrion finds out what happened to Tysha 8. Sam meets his father 9. Theon and Ramsay meet again 10. Victarion and Euron resolve their conflict Until these things happen none of those respective characters can die. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 25 2014 23:36 Hot_Bid wrote: i mean GRRM subverts fantasy tropes but its not hard to predict who would die and who wouldn't there are certain deaths at certain times that simply make so little sense that GRRM wouldn't do it because their arcs aren't fully completed. we all know Dany will at some point contact someone from westeros or get there in one way or another, so she likely won't die until that is realized. same for Arya, killing her off before she returns to westeros is obviously not going to happen. the same is with jon. when he "died" in book 5 it wasn't even really a question as to whether he was truly dead, its obvious he's not because its clear his narrative purpose has not been fulfilled. same with sansa (if you ever feared for her, though she never was in any real danger). GRRM would have to be real stupid to have Arya wander around for 3 books and randomly die to the Hound, and he's not stupid. it's not really a cliffhanger, because if you really take a step back and think about it, there's no way he'd kill her off there. so as for the ending being happy, GRRM has said its a bittersweet ending. which means the others will be defeated but there will be losses. i do think certain things are virtually guaranteed happen. 1. Jon and Dany meet in one way or another 2. Bran interacts with the Starks again 3. Jon and Arya meet in some way 4. Arya and her wolf reunite 5. Sansa interacts with her surviving siblings 6. Sandor and Gregor meet in some way 7. Tyrion finds out what happened to Tysha 8. Sam meets his father 9. Theon and Ramsay meet again 10. Victarion and Euron resolve their conflict Until these things happen none of those respective characters can die. I agree with your general point (a character won't die off randomly without purpose, i mean it is a story afterall), but i really don't agree with most of your suggestions here. Some of them are a bit too forced imo | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On April 25 2014 23:36 Hot_Bid wrote: i mean GRRM subverts fantasy tropes but its not hard to predict who would die and who wouldn't there are certain deaths at certain times that simply make so little sense that GRRM wouldn't do it because their arcs aren't fully completed. we all know Dany will at some point contact someone from westeros or get there in one way or another, so she likely won't die until that is realized. same for Arya, killing her off before she returns to westeros is obviously not going to happen. the same is with jon. when he "died" in book 5 it wasn't even really a question as to whether he was truly dead, its obvious he's not because its clear his narrative purpose has not been fulfilled. same with sansa (if you ever feared for her, though she never was in any real danger). GRRM would have to be real stupid to have Arya wander around for 3 books and randomly die to the Hound, and he's not stupid. it's not really a cliffhanger, because if you really take a step back and think about it, there's no way he'd kill her off there. so as for the ending being happy, GRRM has said its a bittersweet ending. which means the others will be defeated but there will be losses. i do think certain things are virtually guaranteed happen. 1. Jon and Dany meet in one way or another 2. Bran interacts with the Starks again 3. Jon and Arya meet in some way 4. Arya and her wolf reunite 5. Sansa interacts with her surviving siblings 6. Sandor and Gregor meet in some way 7. Tyrion finds out what happened to Tysha 8. Sam meets his father 9. Theon and Ramsay meet again 10. Victarion and Euron resolve their conflict Until these things happen none of those respective characters can die. I agree with your point that, despite GRRM's efforts to create a universe where no character is safe, some of them have plot armor and are bound to live at least to the end. However, some of your events are way too optimistic. - I'd say Jon and Dany will meet for sure. - I don't think Bran will ever see or meet a Stark again. He might "interact" with them through warging and greenseeing, without actually doing anything. I see him becoming the last greenseer, looking over his family from north of the Wall. I really doubt he'll go south again. - Jon and Arya reuniting... I'm not sure. I don't see how it could be relevant, story-wise, but it'd be nice. - Arya and her wolf reunite, I agree. - Sansa interacting with her surviving siblings is likely. She'll probably rule the North at some point, so I'd say she's likely to meet at least Rickon. - Sandor and Gregor meeting is a no-no. As much as I love the character, I think we've seen the last of him. Sandor is either dead or (most likely) on the Quiet Isle. If he is dead, well it's over, and if he's on the Quiet Isle, he's a changed man and is living his days repenting from his crimes and his life of violence. I actually sort of like that idea, it'd be a peace he deserves after the live he's lived. - Tyrion finding out about Tysha is just totally irrelevant to the story to me. I think Tysha represents the various issues Tyrion has with women, and the things he's chasing. I seriously doubt we'll see her at any point of the story. - Sam meeting his father might happen. It would definitely be interesting. - Theon and Ramsay meet again... I'd say it's likely. My bet is on Theon witnessing Ramsay being burnt alive by Stannis after he crushes the Boltons and retakes Winterfell. - Victarion and Euron resolving their issues, also likely. I think Euron is going to become a big player in the next two books, and Victarion just resents him too much for nothing to happen. I've noticed that a lot of readers are waiting for "ideal" things to happen, and for justice to be served the right way. If there's anything we learned with GRRM, it's that when justice does get served, it usually feels stale. For example, Joffrey's death, who I think a lot of people would have wished to see die in another manner. The only example of real justice I can think of is Jon's "Edd, fetch me a block" moment, which was actually utter righteous justice, and incredibly satisfying. I too think some things are bound to happen before characters die: - King's Landing will fall, likely due to Cersei's incompetence. - Jaime won't die until he kills Cersei, fulfilling the Valonqar prophecy. My bet is, history will repeat itself and he will have to kill Cersei before she orders her pyromancers to burn the city, a la Aerys II. - Stannis won't die until he confronts the Others. He might die in the first battle or afterwards, but I think he's safe until he engages them for the first time. - I think Arya will survive the series, but she will be so changed by her journey and by what she's done that she won't reunite with the Starks. She'll keep doing her own thing, and live as a lone wolf. - For some reason, I think the Others will matter a lot in Sansa's arc. LF's plan for her seem to have her be bound North, where she'll be used to retake Winterfell and rule, possibly as LF's puppet. However, I think it's likely that this will coincide with the Others breaching the Wall. The North will be the first land to fall when that happens, so it might be relevant. - Daenerys and Jon will die. Most likely against the Others. Can't really think of any other right now... But if I were to talk about the things I personally want to happen, it would be: - Stannis ends up on the throne. The story began with a Baratheon as king, and I like the Baratheons. I'd like it if Stannis sat the Iron Throne by the end. - Ironically, I think the Iron Throne will barely be relevant when the story ends. King's Landing will likely be destroyed, and with the coming and the defeat of the Others, a new era will begin. I'd say the kingdoms will either be separated and rule themselves, or there will be some kind of alliance/democracy-like system, much like how the wildlings elected Mance to lead them. - Jon and Dany don't meet, and don't become lovers. Ideally for me, Dany doesn't reach Westeros, or she dies when she does. - I want Jorah to matter somehow. I'd love for him to join the Night's Watch, as his father wished. - Unlikely though, as I think the Wall will fall, and the Night's Watch will cease to exist. It's just too tempting, building a 700 feet wall and not having it smashed. - All the dragons will die. I think that when the Others are defeated, magic will fade again, and the dragons will die either during the war or shortly after. - The Starks will be back in power. This one is bound to happen I think, given the original title of the last book, "A Time for Wolves". I think the Starks will gain a position of power again by the end, and they will be closer to the Starks of old, who were said to be as harsh and ruthless as the land they ruled. - Ice is reforged. That's actually something I really want to happen. A lot of people have speculated that it will, with Gendry being the one to reforge Ice. I'd love that. - I would absolutely love it if Jaime lived, but I just don't see it happening. It's way too likely that he'll die. Honestly, I think House Lannister might be extinct at the end of the story. Bottomline, major characters who I think are going to make it to the end, and live afterwards: Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Varys, Sam, Theon, Brienne (saved by Jaime somehow), and somehow I think Barristan will live. Major characters who I think will die: Daenerys, Jon, Davos, Stannis, Asha, Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Melisandre, Jon Connington/Aegon, Asha, Aeron and Euron Greyjoy. We shall see! | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
- Sandor and Gregor meeting is a no-no. As much as I love the character, I think we've seen the last of him. Sandor is either dead or (most likely) on the Quiet Isle. If he is dead, well it's over, and if he's on the Quiet Isle, he's a changed man and is living his days repenting from his crimes and his life of violence. I actually sort of like that idea, it'd be a peace he deserves after the live he's lived. There is still the very credible theory that Sandor will be the champion of the faith in the trial vs Cercei, who will use Robert Strong (undead Gregor) as her champion. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
Overall people blame Martin for killing major plot characters when that really isn't true, he is just good at hiding the true plot. He made people think that the war for the throne was the main plot in the first books and that first Ned, and then Robb were major players because of it, but now most people already think it's mostly there to show how the kingdom will fight over petty squabbles and ignore the major threat looming in the horizon. Some characters clearly have plot armor, and Tyrion specially has been saved from being almost dead more than anyone reasonably should. Almost killing Tyrion is close to a running gag in the books. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
As far as people know, Sandor is either dead, or with the Brotherhood Without Banners. The Quiet Isle is secluded from the rest of Westeros, and while the "monks" seem informed on current events and stuff, I seriously don't see the Elder Brother or anybody from the Faith actually reach out to propose a champion for a trial they have no business with. It doesn't coincide with the character of the Elder Brother at all, and it would be very far fetched in my opinion. To the contrary, I think leaving him at the Quiet Isle makes a lot of sense. It's certainly unexpected, but it's a calming end to someone whose life has been filled with anger and hate. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On April 26 2014 00:55 Spaylz wrote: Yeah, I understand the idea of Sandor becoming a champion for the Faith, but I just don't think it's credible. As far as people know, Sandor is either dead, or with the Brotherhood Without Banners. The Quiet Isle is secluded from the rest of Westeros, and while the "monks" seem informed on current events and stuff, I seriously don't see the Elder Brother or anybody from the Faith actually reach out to propose a champion for a trial they have no business with. It doesn't coincide with the character of the Elder Brother at all, and it would be very far fetched in my opinion. To the contrary, I think leaving him at the Quiet Isle makes a lot of sense. It's certainly unexpected, but it's a calming end to someone whose life has been filled with anger and hate. Well, considering the High Septon (or whatever he's called) is the pious monk type, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to have contacts on the Quiet Isle, or even to have come from there himself. In that case, if they need a champion, having Sandor fight in his stead makes a bit more sense. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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dravernor
Netherlands6192 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On April 26 2014 01:16 dravernor wrote: I'm still massively curious about Jon's mother Not me. It's supposed to be the big mystery and what not, but honestly it's had no bearing on the last 5 books and it's only going to be used to give him some sort of royal background that everyone is expecting. Unless GRRM trolls everyone and is like "yeah nah she was just some whore". I'd fucking laaaaaaaaugh | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On April 26 2014 01:16 dravernor wrote: I'm still massively curious about Jon's mother apparently we know nothing (about) jon snow('s mother) | ||
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