SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 30 2011 01:30 minus_human wrote: As a side note, I would not be surprised if Martin pulls something completely unexpected out of his ass. It could be either something utterly awesome or as lame as never mentioning Jon's mother again, save for Jon's private wondering during his development (even though that is highly unlikely).
Martin has said that it will be revealed who Jon's parents are. Howland Reed will know if Lyanna was the mother.
On June 30 2011 01:30 minus_human wrote: As a side note, I would not be surprised if Martin pulls something completely unexpected out of his ass. It could be either something utterly awesome or as lame as never mentioning Jon's mother again, save for Jon's private wondering during his development (even though that is highly unlikely).
Martin has said that it will be revealed who Jon's parents are. Howland Reed will know if Lyanna was the mother.
Howland Reed's arrival will answer a ton of questions
On June 30 2011 01:40 Lomak wrote: Eddard Stark tells Jon in the first book that HE IS Stark, "you may not have my name, but you have my blood." Then he promises him to tell him about his mother the next time they talk, except of course that never happens =(. I'm not sure where these other theories come from. I'm just now finishing up the third book 'storm of swords', so maybe there was some revelation about Jon's mother in "A feast for crows' but I highly doubt he is any other blood but stark. He has wolf dreams like all the other starks as well.
Well, if he DOES have Lyanna's blood he'd still have Stark blood. Keep in mind all the other Stark kids are half Stark/half Tully. So there's no reason Jon couldn't have wolf dreams while being half Stark/half Targaryen. Edit: Well, technically none of them are half anything, since I'd assume any number of families bloodlines exist in some percentage in them, but they all have Stark blood is my point.
Hmmm, I'm starting to bloody convince myself here.
Davos Seaworth meets a lord of the sisters and he tells him that Eddard Stark had to leave the Vale at the start of the rebellion. He did leave the vale via ship from the fingers and stranded on the Sister Islands. The lord then tells Davos that the daughter of one of the fishermen was pregnant with Jon and Ned being his dad
On June 29 2011 21:50 exog wrote: Dudes, i dont get why people think Rhaegar is the father of John snow... Ned even tells his wife its his son... Wtf?!
Honestly i thought he incested Lyanna when first reading the book...
idunno, if so, why does he let him go to the wall? It s not a very bright future, especially he had no way to know he ll rise up in ranks that fast. Btw if Rhaegar would be his father wouldnt he need to have some sort of Targaryen sign? White hair, fire resistance/ "addiction'. He's black haired and already got himself burnt pretty badly. The Lyanna "promise me" clearly hides something, but this would be quite stupid. Why not Robert then? They used to be in love...
I'm generally neutral about the Jon Snow theories, but I'll play devil's advocate here.
My assumption would be that Ned promised Lyanna that he'd protect his life/secret (amounts to the same thing) not that he'd set him up for life or make him Lord of Winterfell, etc. He's letting him live his own life and make his own decisions.
As for Targaryen traits, well first off, they DON'T HAVE IMMUNITY TO FIRE. What did this misconception arise from? IIRC Martin has even said that the instance with Dany was a one-time magical event kind of thing. Short of Jon hatching some of his own dragons in a magical funeral byre, there's no reason he can't be burnt. Second, since it's been mentioned before with Baratheon traits being "dominant" (all of Robert's bastards having black hair, etc.), I'd assume that Stark traits might do the same thing. Remember the Targaryens always married relative to relative, explaining their prior uniformity.
If it were Robert's child with Lyanna, there'd be no need for Ned to raise him specifically OR for his background to be kept secret.
ok, not fire resistance but the targaryeans were mostly addicted to fire in some way. + white hair, i remeber some very distant, like third cousin, of some targaryeans still had the silverish hair. So i dont think it's recessive gene as someone said, or that the Stark genes are dominant. Sansa, Robb and Rickon are more similar to the Tullies iirc, while Jon and Arya are similar to Ned. I remember this was discussed in a Catelyn chapter in book one i think.
But let's say its Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son. Here are the events as far as i remember. 1. Rhaegar takes Lyanna. 2. The Mad King has Ned's father and brother killed. 3. Robert takes King's landing
Do really 9 months + pass? I pictured this rebellion as a rather quick one, at least from what i ve read, Robert swept trough the south fairly quickly and King's Landing didnt even take a day to siege, as its gates were opened. I think the promise me thing was at the second, though that does not make sense since Ned wasnt there, so it should have been before it? Or after? But why did she die then, i really dont remember, but isnt it written that Rhaegar or Aerys has her killed? Someone who has better memory and chronological sense please tell me.
On June 30 2011 01:30 minus_human wrote: As a side note, I would not be surprised if Martin pulls something completely unexpected out of his ass. It could be either something utterly awesome or as lame as never mentioning Jon's mother again, save for Jon's private wondering during his development (even though that is highly unlikely).
Martin has said that it will be revealed who Jon's parents are. Howland Reed will know if Lyanna was the mother.
On June 29 2011 21:50 exog wrote: Dudes, i dont get why people think Rhaegar is the father of John snow... Ned even tells his wife its his son... Wtf?!
Honestly i thought he incested Lyanna when first reading the book...
idunno, if so, why does he let him go to the wall? It s not a very bright future, especially he had no way to know he ll rise up in ranks that fast. Btw if Rhaegar would be his father wouldnt he need to have some sort of Targaryen sign? White hair, fire resistance/ "addiction'. He's black haired and already got himself burnt pretty badly. The Lyanna "promise me" clearly hides something, but this would be quite stupid. Why not Robert then? They used to be in love...
I'm generally neutral about the Jon Snow theories, but I'll play devil's advocate here.
My assumption would be that Ned promised Lyanna that he'd protect his life/secret (amounts to the same thing) not that he'd set him up for life or make him Lord of Winterfell, etc. He's letting him live his own life and make his own decisions.
As for Targaryen traits, well first off, they DON'T HAVE IMMUNITY TO FIRE. What did this misconception arise from? IIRC Martin has even said that the instance with Dany was a one-time magical event kind of thing. Short of Jon hatching some of his own dragons in a magical funeral byre, there's no reason he can't be burnt. Second, since it's been mentioned before with Baratheon traits being "dominant" (all of Robert's bastards having black hair, etc.), I'd assume that Stark traits might do the same thing. Remember the Targaryens always married relative to relative, explaining their prior uniformity.
If it were Robert's child with Lyanna, there'd be no need for Ned to raise him specifically OR for his background to be kept secret.
ok, not fire resistance but the targaryeans were mostly addicted to fire in some way. + white hair, i remeber some very distant, like third cousin, of some targaryeans still had the silverish hair. So i dont think it's recessive gene as someone said, or that the Stark genes are dominant. Sansa, Robb and Rickon are more similar to the Tullies iirc, while Jon and Arya are similar to Ned. I remember this was discussed in a Catelyn chapter in book one i think.
But let's say its Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son. Here are the events as far as i remember. 1. Rhaegar takes Lyanna. 2. The Mad King has Ned's father and brother killed. 3. Robert takes King's landing
Do really 9 months + pass? I pictured this rebellion as a rather quick one, at least from what i ve read, Robert swept trough the south fairly quickly and King's Landing didnt even take a day to siege, as its gates were opened. I think the promise me thing was at the second, though that does not make sense since Ned wasnt there, so it should have been before it? Or after? But why did she die then, i really dont remember, but isnt it written that Rhaegar or Aerys has her killed? Someone who has better memory and chronological sense please tell me.
That's the point, we don't know why Lyanna died, but it was mentioned she was laying in a "bed of blood" (or do I misremember? was it a bed of roses, but in smelled like blood? I'm fairly certain it had smth to do with blood). If she indeed died in a bed of blood that could mean childbirth.
And you have to take note, the rebellion wasn't that quick, because, in the least, Robert killed Rhaegar at the Trident, which is in the middle of the continent (not too far away from King's Landing, but you have to consider that travelling with hosts would have been kinda slow). In my view it's possible that from the moment of Lyanna being taken 9 months had passed until Ned found her at the tower of joy.
Maybe Lyanna was already pregnant, and that's why Rhaegar kidnapped her? Look at how we're dissecting shit lol. These books are so good.
According to the song of fire and ice wiki, the sack of king's landing took place a year after the beginning of the rebellion, so robert couldn't be the father of Jon. I don't think ANYONE thinks that this is a possibility. There wouldn't be any reason for Ned to have to hide this from Robert or anyone else.
awseome, btw their system to give your "scope" of how far did you read the books in order to reveal parts or the full length of the text is just fcking amazing
btw it totally convinced me on Rhaegar+Lyanna being the parents
Question for those who have read the books and watched the show:
Does season 1 cover the entire first book? I really want to read the rest of them but I don't know if I should start from the first book if season 1 already covered. I'm not the fastest reader and I don't want it to take forever before I get to new parts of the story . So is it worth it to read book 1 or should I go to Clash of Kings?
On July 01 2011 02:23 Murkinlol wrote: Question for those who have read the books and watched the show:
Does season 1 cover the entire first book? I really want to read the rest of them but I don't know if I should start from the first book if season 1 already covered. I'm not the fastest reader and I don't want it to take forever before I get to new parts of the story . So is it worth it to read book 1 or should I go to Clash of Kings?
Season 1 does cover the entire first book but you should still read it. There is a lot more information in the books than made it into the show.
On July 01 2011 02:23 Murkinlol wrote: Question for those who have read the books and watched the show:
Does season 1 cover the entire first book? I really want to read the rest of them but I don't know if I should start from the first book if season 1 already covered. I'm not the fastest reader and I don't want it to take forever before I get to new parts of the story . So is it worth it to read book 1 or should I go to Clash of Kings?
adding to what was said, reading Book 1 makes sense because there is a *ton* of characterization that the shows didn't have time to cover, or slightly changed. If you watch the TV show and then try to read A Clash of Kings you might be wondering why some things don't make sense.
I urge you to read the books, especially since the behavior of the Wolves, Tyrion in battle and some other "major" relations are pretty important to the overarching plot.
EPT
. So is it worth it to read book 1 or should I go to Clash of Kings?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7gnlS.jpg)
