EPTyou might reconsider different rules for this thread or can we spoil ADWD here now? :D
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 38
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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chroniX
517 Posts
you might reconsider different rules for this thread or can we spoil ADWD here now? :D | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On June 29 2011 20:07 chroniX wrote: yay got it aswell! you might reconsider different rules for this thread or can we spoil ADWD here now? :D Common sense would dictate that people don't spoil ADWD. A mod edit of the OP/header might be a good idea though. | ||
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exog
Norway279 Posts
Honestly i thought he incested Lyanna when first reading the book... | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:50 exog wrote: Dudes, i dont get why people think Rhaegar is the father of John snow... Ned even tells his wife its his son... Wtf?! Honestly i thought he incested Lyanna when first reading the book... Basically, he lied to protect Jon. Can't go around telling people he has Targaryen blood when everyone wants to murder them all. People surmise that Ned promised Lyanna that he'd protect/raise Jon based on the "promise me" flashbacks he has. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:50 exog wrote: Dudes, i dont get why people think Rhaegar is the father of John snow... Ned even tells his wife its his son... Wtf?! Honestly i thought he incested Lyanna when first reading the book... idunno, if so, why does he let him go to the wall? It s not a very bright future, especially he had no way to know he ll rise up in ranks that fast. Btw if Rhaegar would be his father wouldnt he need to have some sort of Targaryen sign? White hair, fire resistance/ "addiction'. He's black haired and already got himself burnt pretty badly. The Lyanna "promise me" clearly hides something, but this would be quite stupid. Why not Robert then? They used to be in love... | ||
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
found a link to ebay. Sadly not mine. I was too dumb to preorder :/ | ||
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AndyJay
Australia833 Posts
Why not Robert then? They used to be in love... Robert was in love with Lyanna. Lyanna... not so much. The Rhaegar/Lyanna case is very strong if you read the first book with it in mind. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:19 Geo.Rion wrote: idunno, if so, why does he let him go to the wall? It s not a very bright future, especially he had no way to know he ll rise up in ranks that fast. Btw if Rhaegar would be his father wouldnt he need to have some sort of Targaryen sign? White hair, fire resistance/ "addiction'. He's black haired and already got himself burnt pretty badly. The Lyanna "promise me" clearly hides something, but this would be quite stupid. Why not Robert then? They used to be in love... I'm generally neutral about the Jon Snow theories, but I'll play devil's advocate here. My assumption would be that Ned promised Lyanna that he'd protect his life/secret (amounts to the same thing) not that he'd set him up for life or make him Lord of Winterfell, etc. He's letting him live his own life and make his own decisions. As for Targaryen traits, well first off, they DON'T HAVE IMMUNITY TO FIRE. What did this misconception arise from? IIRC Martin has even said that the instance with Dany was a one-time magical event kind of thing. Short of Jon hatching some of his own dragons in a magical funeral byre, there's no reason he can't be burnt. Second, since it's been mentioned before with Baratheon traits being "dominant" (all of Robert's bastards having black hair, etc.), I'd assume that Stark traits might do the same thing. Remember the Targaryens always married relative to relative, explaining their prior uniformity. If it were Robert's child with Lyanna, there'd be no need for Ned to raise him specifically OR for his background to be kept secret. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:38 Conquest101 wrote: If it were Robert's child with Lyanna, there'd be no need for Ned to raise him specifically OR for his background to be kept secret. Except for the fact that if Cersei knew Jon was Robert and Lyanna's son she would have had him skinned alive. | ||
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Abysus
United States67 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:19 Geo.Rion wrote: idunno, if so, why does he let him go to the wall? It s not a very bright future, especially he had no way to know he ll rise up in ranks that fast. Btw if Rhaegar would be his father wouldnt he need to have some sort of Targaryen sign? White hair, fire resistance/ "addiction'. He's black haired and already got himself burnt pretty badly. The Lyanna "promise me" clearly hides something, but this would be quite stupid. Why not Robert then? They used to be in love... Genetics seems to be quite similiar to how they work in real life, as such most targaryen traits are recessive. Which would show why so many have them through their constant incest. The fire resistance is bullshit and GRRM has said in a fan question at a convention or on his blog somewhere that was one time thing for dany. You cant trust the TV show in that they've basically made dany fire immune. In fact a few notable targaryens have died due to thinking they were immune to fire. The "addiction" im assuming you are talking about being crazy? If so thats a result of them being inbred, and breeding with an outsider in this case Lyanna, removes that from the possiblity. It's definitely not Robert's kid. The timeline doesnt match well at all from clues given in the story. Another piece of evidence, with a war going on why was the top 2 if not 3 best swordsmen in the entire westeros protecting lyanna? Her whereabouts were not only pretty secret, but she was being held deep within Targaryen loyalist land. From what I've read the best fitting theory is they were protecting a heir to the throne. It's the theory that best fits to me with current evidence. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:40 minus_human wrote: Except for the fact that if Cersei knew Jon was Robert and Lyanna's son she would have had him skinned alive. And Robert would have allowed this because?? Up until the events of GoT and Robert's death, there really is no need for secrecy at all, and yet Ned has been completely secretive about Jon's past (supposed mother) even with his own wife and Jon himself. What would have been the point when he could have just said, "You're one of Robert's many bastard children"? Edit: Also prior to Robert taking the throne, it was pretty much common knowledge that Robert was in love with Lyanna right? Since Ned brought back Jon at the end of the war, that means Robert would have had to have conceived Jon with Lyanna long before being married to Cersei. So, in theory, the bastards (not a secret at all) he's fathered SINCE being married to Cersei should be much more insulting  Edit: Sorry for the double post. Not thinking 100% clearly after staying up all night watching GSL | ||
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cyberspace
Canada955 Posts
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DISHU
United Kingdom348 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:52 Conquest101 wrote: And Robert would have allowed this because?? Up until the events of GoT and Robert's death, there really is no need for secrecy at all, and yet Ned has been completely secretive about Jon's past (supposed mother) even with his own wife and Jon himself. What would have been the point when he could have just said, "You're one of Robert's many bastard children"? Edit: Sorry for the double post. Not thinking 100% clearly after staying up all night watching GSL I actually believe it to be quite unlikely that Jon is Robert's, but I was just arguing. Personally I think it to be illogical for Jon to be the Robert's son, because then he would have been the legal heir, and Ned would have surely told Robert (presuming this is the thing Lyanna was talking about at the ToJ) because he would have been honor-bound. There are absolutely no clues to indicate that Lyanna and Robert ever had a child (especially since they were not actually married if I recall correctly), besides the fact that Robert indeed loved her. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On June 29 2011 23:30 minus_human wrote: I actually believe it to be quite unlikely that Jon is Robert's, but I was just arguing. Personally I think it to be illogical for Jon to be the Robert's son, because then he would have been the legal heir, and Ned would have surely told Robert (presuming this is the thing Lyanna was talking about at the ToJ) because he would have been honor-bound. There are absolutely no clues to indicate that Lyanna and Robert ever had a child (especially since they were not actually married if I recall correctly), besides the fact that Robert indeed loved her. Like I said at first, I'm not really for any one particular theory atm. The Raegar+Lyanna thing does seem to be one of the more likely ones though, but I think there are a few scenarios that are pretty plausible. Well, we'll just have to wait 15 more years for Martin to finish the series and then we'll know. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
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Lomak
United States311 Posts
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