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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 06 2013 23:16 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east. It really is not a mayor spoiler. Lets not be like the people in the show only thread :D Bigger spoiler is that Edric Storm is not important to future story, unless whatever Edric was supposed to do will be done all by Gendry
Another pseudo-spoiler is that Gendry will find out that he is Robert's son (or at least that he has King's blood), something he does not know in the books, as far as I'm aware. That could or could not be important.
Awesome episode overall, as every week. I love pretty much all the new additions and changes in this season so far. Of course the book is not necessarily worse, but the changes are certainly worthy of the books for the most part. We get so many awesome scenes with Lady Olenna that just fit her perfectly, the Melisandre/Thoros scene, Reek.. they're doing such a great job overall.
Sure, there's always nitpicking, like who will continue the Tyrell line and so on, but, well, that's nitpicking. And if you just think about it for a moment, the same kind of nitpicking can be applied to the books, too, if you really want to. That doesn't stop the books from being awesome, either.
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On May 06 2013 23:31 ZasZ. wrote:
Many people were hypothesizing, and I agreed, that she would fill the role of Ser Dontos in Sansa's escape from King's Landing, since the writers have forgotten about Ser Dontos since the episode he was introduced. But now that she is dead, what exactly did she bring to the story that couldn't have been done without her? Viewers were already painfully aware of Joffrey's tastes, if only because they had already shown him beating Ros when she was given to him as a gift. I suppose she allowed a bit more insight into the Littlefinger/Varys wrestling match without actually making them PoV characters, but it didn't seem very well done. So what I'm left with is tits. I've been arguing for two seasons that she was in the show for more than just tits, but apparently I was wrong.
Honestly, she is such a minor character, I dare say that most show viewers will not even remember her, let alone know her name. She's one of the background faces that you kinda vaguely recall when watching the show, and that's it.
The only reason we know about her is because she did not exist in the books. She's simply an unimportant, minor character, and she was never intended for more than that.
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I asked my friends who they think is a character made for the show and not apart of the books, and 4/5 of them all point out "The redheaded whore".
So not only is it obvious to some she isn't of the books, but they also don't even know her by her name lol.
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On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east.
True. I almost missed that 
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I really liked that Thoros/Melisandre met in the series. It kind of tied up an open end from the books for me, or rather filled a hole. The 2 always seemed so different and isolated from each other that you did not even feel like they followed the same religion.
Now their different approach to it was highlighted and was also nice to see that Melisandre seemed jealous of Thoros' powers or at least very surprised by them.
Btw that they do so much with Theon shows that they firmly expect to also bring the 5th book into the series.
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On May 06 2013 23:31 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east. For some reason you think the show will suddenly start sticking to the books 100%...remember that in the books, Arya and Melisandre never meet at all. Can we really consider it a spoiler if, after contriving their meeting in the show, she foretells another meeting? For all we know it will be another invention by the show writers for some unknown purpose, not a spoiler of Martin's story.
Didn't they meet a mysterious witch/priestess/something in the 3rd book when the group was going through the woods? Probably replaced her with a known character to save budget.
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On May 07 2013 00:35 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:31 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east. For some reason you think the show will suddenly start sticking to the books 100%...remember that in the books, Arya and Melisandre never meet at all. Can we really consider it a spoiler if, after contriving their meeting in the show, she foretells another meeting? For all we know it will be another invention by the show writers for some unknown purpose, not a spoiler of Martin's story. Didn't they meet a mysterious witch/priestess/something in the 3rd book when the group was going through the woods? Probably replaced her with a known character to save budget.
the band and the kids went together to a "woods witch" so they just put that event together with melissandres visit. I dont mind really
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Just went through the description of episodes from season 2... What a boring and disappointing season. I like this one by far more even though this episode was more of a filler.
So many bad scenes... Littlefinger lose credibility every episode he is in.
And the Sansa crying is made in an unclear way.
Tyion goes to tell her she is not marrying Loras and the Littlefinger boat is there...
I get it, she declined, and the boat goes away but what those who haven't read the book think of this... I think it's just messy realization.
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I don't really see what's unclear about the Sansa situation. She's getting neither of her two escape options (which is what the ship symbolizes, no matter who it belongs to or who is in it) and has to marry Tyrion instead. What's unclear about that?
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On May 07 2013 01:55 0x64 wrote:
Just went through the description of episodes from season 2... What a boring and disappointing season. I like this one by far more even though this episode was more of a filler.
So many bad scenes... Littlefinger lose credibility every episode he is in.
And the Sansa crying is made in an unclear way.
Tyion goes to tell her she is not marrying Loras and the Littlefinger boat is there...
I get it, she declined, and the boat goes away but what those who haven't read the book think of this... I think it's just messy realization.
It's very well done, Sansa getting screwed over that is. The only people who dont understand what has happened are those who cant even tell Theon and Robb apart.
Varys plots with Q. of Thorns to marry Sansa off. Sansa is told of it by both Tyrells.
LF asks Sansa, do you want to come with me or u d rather stay. She wants to stay.
Tywinn tells Tyrion he's marrying Sansa.
Cersei and Tyrion talk about him having to marry Sansa.
LF tells Varrys, literally, taht i fucked up your plan.
...
Boat sailing away with a huge ass mockingbird sail, Sansa's crying.
OMG, what happened, it's too messy.
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On May 06 2013 23:35 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:31 ZasZ. wrote:
Many people were hypothesizing, and I agreed, that she would fill the role of Ser Dontos in Sansa's escape from King's Landing, since the writers have forgotten about Ser Dontos since the episode he was introduced. But now that she is dead, what exactly did she bring to the story that couldn't have been done without her? Viewers were already painfully aware of Joffrey's tastes, if only because they had already shown him beating Ros when she was given to him as a gift. I suppose she allowed a bit more insight into the Littlefinger/Varys wrestling match without actually making them PoV characters, but it didn't seem very well done. So what I'm left with is tits. I've been arguing for two seasons that she was in the show for more than just tits, but apparently I was wrong.
Honestly, she is such a minor character, I dare say that most show viewers will not even remember her, let alone know her name. She's one of the background faces that you kinda vaguely recall when watching the show, and that's it. The only reason we know about her is because she did not exist in the books. She's simply an unimportant, minor character, and she was never intended for more than that.
I found Ros to be pretty interesting despite being a minor non-book character.
1. She is a low-born but has managed to work herself up to being the personal confidant of Littlefinger, she mentions this to Shae as well, they both have come from nothing to the Red Keep in a relatively short period of time. We get to watch how far a fairly intelligent low-born woman make an attempt to play the game,and then see her killed when she makes a wrong move and gets found out by Littlefinger. She was a minor player of the game, she did her best to adapt to King's Landing, to improve her position as much as possible, but in the end she was a pawn, and no one will notice or care for her death. She was used by both Littlefinger and Varys, despite how far she has come in her own mind, to them she is completely insignificant.We get to see the dangers of playing the game, especially for those with no power. The big players are allowed to screw up sometimes, they dance with each other gaining and losing advantages, but for the most part fairly safe due to their position and connections. The small players can afford no screwups, she made one misstep and is met with a gruesome death.
2. Further character development for Littlefinger, here is a woman that Littlefinger saw something in, he took her in and elevated her above his other prostitutes because of her intelligence. But once he finds out she has betrayed him, he makes her suffer, he doesn't just kill her, he makes sure she dies slowly and dies in pain. No attachments, she was just a "bad investment." He uses her as a message to Varys " I found your spy, and I gave her to Joffrey, this is your fault, you are responsible for this...you have no idea what I am capable of, don't fuck with me"
3. Varys blanches a little at her death, but he justifies it by saying "what I did I did for the realm." He may feel a little disgust and a little regret at her death, but ultimately, it doesn't matter to him. He loses a pawn but the game will go on.
I liked her character because we get to see the game from the POV of one of the "little birds" of Kings landing, see her actions, the risks she takes, the connection she forms with Shae, going as far as to warn her about Littlefinger's aspirations on Sansa, and then we see what happens when a low-born overplays her hand and meets her brutal end.
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I really really think Osha and Rickon should part ways from Bran, Hodor and the Reeds.. please.
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On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east.
it's probably more a sign of how the show and the books are diverging than anything else
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On May 07 2013 04:59 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east. it's probably more a sign of how the show and the books are diverging than anything else
Probably a meaningless comment. Maybe a reference to the general fact of Arya's bodycount.
Or, this is now the time to call "Arya kills Mel" and reserve the "called it" for in a couple/few years.
Rewatching that episode didn't help it at all. Everything about every one of the scenes north of the wall was in the vicinity of downright horrible. On rewatch I think it actually got worse because the scene with the fall on the wall trumped the end scene for worst when I realized how transparently not-in-danger Jon and Ygritte were. That is entirely contrary to this series in a deeper and more damning way than disney light-through-the-clouds-shallow-happy BS.
I don't know what to think of Ygritte knowing that Jon is still loyal to the night's watch. I kind of don't want to try to think it through because it is obviously bad, probably very bad, and this episode is already convicted as guilty enough to be left to Ramsay to do with as he wishes. I do not expect to meet a hound named climb later.
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On May 07 2013 04:43 fabiano wrote:
I really really think Osha and Rickon should part ways from Bran, Hodor and the Reeds.. please.
they'll part when they get to the wall. before Bran meets coldhands
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On May 06 2013 23:08 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 22:54 Doppelganger wrote:On May 06 2013 21:54 c0ldfusion wrote:On May 06 2013 18:39 PredY wrote:
what do you think is the meaning of the Arya - Mellisandre scene? She clearly sees Arya doing some assassinations, but also says they will meet again, is that something that is gonna happen in the last 2 books? Yeah I think that's a potential spoiler for us book readers. She constantly offs someone so I don't know if that is a spoiler. Especially if you consider that her plan has been to off even more people for a long time. Yes but "we'll meet again" implies that at some point Arya comes back to Westeros or Melisandre heads out east.
I thought that probably Arya and Mel will meet again before the end of this/next season, maybe Arya trying to rescue Gendry or something similar related to this off-book plot. I don't see them meeting after she gets to the ship to Braavos, it would be bad tv storytelling to forsee something this minor if it's going to happen in 4-5 seasons xD.
It was an ok episode, setting up the plots to come. I enjoyed especially the bits with both Boltons (which are big favourites of mine after having read ADwD), the Tywin and Olenna scene, the Sansa-Loras scene (I was thinking that she might just ask him "are you gay?" when he was describing the dresses of the wedding with such detail while not mentioning the bride xD) and, of course, Tyrion ("well.. this is awkward" xD).
And next week, the bear and the maiden fair!
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On May 07 2013 03:46 Fenrisulf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:35 Conti wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 ZasZ. wrote:
Many people were hypothesizing, and I agreed, that she would fill the role of Ser Dontos in Sansa's escape from King's Landing, since the writers have forgotten about Ser Dontos since the episode he was introduced. But now that she is dead, what exactly did she bring to the story that couldn't have been done without her? Viewers were already painfully aware of Joffrey's tastes, if only because they had already shown him beating Ros when she was given to him as a gift. I suppose she allowed a bit more insight into the Littlefinger/Varys wrestling match without actually making them PoV characters, but it didn't seem very well done. So what I'm left with is tits. I've been arguing for two seasons that she was in the show for more than just tits, but apparently I was wrong.
Honestly, she is such a minor character, I dare say that most show viewers will not even remember her, let alone know her name. She's one of the background faces that you kinda vaguely recall when watching the show, and that's it. The only reason we know about her is because she did not exist in the books. She's simply an unimportant, minor character, and she was never intended for more than that. I found Ros to be pretty interesting despite being a minor non-book character. 1. She is a low-born but has managed to work herself up to being the personal confidant of Littlefinger, she mentions this to Shae as well, they both have come from nothing to the Red Keep in a relatively short period of time. We get to watch how far a fairly intelligent low-born woman make an attempt to play the game,and then see her killed when she makes a wrong move and gets found out by Littlefinger. She was a minor player of the game, she did her best to adapt to King's Landing, to improve her position as much as possible, but in the end she was a pawn, and no one will notice or care for her death. She was used by both Littlefinger and Varys, despite how far she has come in her own mind, to them she is completely insignificant.We get to see the dangers of playing the game, especially for those with no power. The big players are allowed to screw up sometimes, they dance with each other gaining and losing advantages, but for the most part fairly safe due to their position and connections. The small players can afford no screwups, she made one misstep and is met with a gruesome death. 2. Further character development for Littlefinger, here is a woman that Littlefinger saw something in, he took her in and elevated her above his other prostitutes because of her intelligence. But once he finds out she has betrayed him, he makes her suffer, he doesn't just kill her, he makes sure she dies slowly and dies in pain. No attachments, she was just a "bad investment." He uses her as a message to Varys " I found your spy, and I gave her to Joffrey, this is your fault, you are responsible for this...you have no idea what I am capable of, don't fuck with me" 3. Varys blanches a little at her death, but he justifies it by saying "what I did I did for the realm." He may feel a little disgust and a little regret at her death, but ultimately, it doesn't matter to him. He loses a pawn but the game will go on. I liked her character because we get to see the game from the POV of one of the "little birds" of Kings landing, see her actions, the risks she takes, the connection she forms with Shae, going as far as to warn her about Littlefinger's aspirations on Sansa, and then we see what happens when a low-born overplays her hand and meets her brutal end.
Good points, I also liked her as an addition for the show. It allows viewers to experience the machinations at the King's court. In the book, we learn partially about it through other characters and can piece the picture together. A TV show does not have this option. Now that Littlefinger leaves KL and takes Sansa with him, we have her eyes to experience him firsthand, while in KL Cersei will become a POV char pretty soon, so that is covered now as well.
Of course, the way she allows the viewers to experience Baelish' plans is a little too obvious and James Bond-like (plus acting as eye candy), so I can see where the grudge of so many readers comes from, but leaving this out would only complicate it more, and I can tell you that most non book reader friends of mine are already confused by the amount of characters.
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On May 07 2013 05:58 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Anyone else find the Theon scenes to be like...nothing more than GRRM letting loose his rape fantasies? It serves no discernible purpose in the short to medium term. Hes just getting sadistically tortured. We certainly dont need to see it as often as we do, its long been established the guy torturing theon is just some random sadist. We can go back to it later on and discover who he is, but instead, we see it every episode for 3-4 minutes. And I imagine the books had similar distressingly pointless examples of him getting tortured.
Its creepy.
My name is Reek, it rhymes with leek! The lack of faith in non book readers is... disturbing! Think they should know by now that everything happens for a reason, even if it takes Dany an entire book of sitting on her arse to get everything to fall back together, it eventually does!
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On May 07 2013 06:45 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:58 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Anyone else find the Theon scenes to be like...nothing more than GRRM letting loose his rape fantasies? It serves no discernible purpose in the short to medium term. Hes just getting sadistically tortured. We certainly dont need to see it as often as we do, its long been established the guy torturing theon is just some random sadist. We can go back to it later on and discover who he is, but instead, we see it every episode for 3-4 minutes. And I imagine the books had similar distressingly pointless examples of him getting tortured.
Its creepy. My name is Reek, it rhymes with leek! The lack of faith in non book readers is... disturbing! Think they should know by now that everything happens for a reason, even if it takes Dany an entire book of sitting on her arse to get everything to fall back together, it eventually does!
Theon/Reek/Ramsay dynamic makes for very, very strong characters. So much is lost on non book readers 
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EPT
