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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
Did not like this finale at all.
I stumbled upon the comments of one of those streaming sites and it is interesting how contrary the top comments are to most of TL´s posts.
"That was a good finale..a little depressing too. I can't wait for the next season."
"Not the way I thought it was gonna end, but I liked it non the less. Here's to the future!!"
"Fantastic episode! So emotional, I actually felt sick with worry at one point. But I was glad it ended on a positive note, although I think this is the calm before the storm and the season 4 premier will be intense!"
"Well, that last episode didn't go down the way I thought it would! Still a great season tho."
"wow! this was so good. very emotional very interesting very well done."
"so sad :-( can't believe they did that ...very tearful episode.....gov is pure evil....."
"Woodbury finaly sees the Govoners true side just to late. WOW great finale. I like the way Rick showed his humanity with the other group in the end. But he's still out there some where and it's obvious those 2 guys know he's certified NUTJOB"
"....Wow...Just...wow. Good episode. I cant wait for more!"
There are negative comments to but they get downvoted.
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I thought it whas a great finale. I don't understand all the hate for "da guvnah". He is hilarious and after Merle died he became my favorite character. The cool thing about him is that he has a well developed charming side and we also know he is a complete psychopath. So there are allot of ways they can make him a formidable threat in the new season, because lets face it, zombies just dont cut it anymore. I do like how Andrea died, she is a tragic character and she could have ended this season many episodes ago and she knew it. So now she has to suffer. Having Carl to assasinate that kid whas also very promising, lets just hope they do something interesting with this in the future. I do wonder about the guvs afro-american and mexican henchmen, it would have made more sense if they had just put him down after he mowed down a part of his own group. I'm also shocked to know that no one here seems to like any of the women in this show. What would you have the writers do, let them all be eaten by zombies?
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On April 02 2013 08:00 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 07:48 Dosey wrote:
I haven't seen the episode yet... but did they really kill off Andrea?
Andrea, who is one of the more important characters in the comic and arguably one of the top 5 most badass good-guys in the entire comic? Seriously?
Jesus... I'm not sure if I even want to see the finale now... why would that of all things bother you? She's NEVER been the same character in the comic as she is in the show. She's been worthless, stupid, and incompetent since the show began. She's never been the same Andrea, so whocares if she dies.
Because it's extremely annoying that Darryl has now become Andrea/Tyrese/Sarge all in one character.
I thought they were going to give Andrea the role of Lily Caul until the Governor died and then she reverted back to badass Andrea. Instead they just made her a whiny bitch throughout and then killed her off...
inb4 Michonne becomes a whiny bitch next season and is killed in the finale.
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nah, just write arcs for females where they actually do things for themselves. they tried with andrea but it didn't work because everything she ever tried to do was a miserable failure that actively made the show worse. I think I might very well mean literally. everything. michonne is starting to look promising, though it only took them ten? episodes to have her communicate with words and I'm not tuning in next season to find out.
nothing about the governor was well developed, either. he's calculating and insane by turns, he gets to have his cake and eat it too according to whatever the plot happens to require until the very end where he defeats himself in the very definition of anticlimax. his only pretense of power and interesting characterization lies in the stupidity of woodbury, which is flawed from the start and was never utilized in any way beyond laughable ensemble scenes in the only street the town apparently has where lots of sound and no fury happens again and again.
edit: if the comic seriously has more characters than the show does I can easily understand why it's derided just as often as it's praised. it's pretty clear serial drama doesn't thrive in this genre when you have to focus on more than ten characters that all need to receive more than basic characterization to rise above the level of fanfic.
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On April 02 2013 08:20 cms wrote:
I thought it whas a great finale. I don't understand all the hate for "da guvnah". He is hilarious and after Merle died he became my favorite character. The cool thing about him is that he has a well developed charming side and we also know he is a complete psychopath. So there are allot of ways they can make him a formidable threat in the new season, because lets face it, zombies just dont cut it anymore. I do like how Andrea died, she is a tragic character and she could have ended this season many episodes ago and she knew it. So now she has to suffer. Having Carl to assasinate that kid whas also very promising, lets just hope they do something interesting with this in the future. I do wonder about the guvs afro-american and mexican henchmen, it would have made more sense if they had just put him down after he mowed down a part of his own group. I'm also shocked to know that no one here seems to like any of the women in this show. What would you have the writers do, let them all be eaten by zombies?
The hate isn't for the governor, it's for the plot they put him in. Governor was fine. Him killing off the whole group anti-climatically is boring. They build up to a showdown that really doesn't happen, woodbury magically becomes a non-threat, and the plot essentially moves no where other than a bunch of civilians moving in and andrea dying. All of this could have been accomplished much more elegantly in a normal episode.
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The one good thing I can commend them for in this finale is how well they deceived us with the group's decision. I'm willing to bet 95% of viewers thought they would leave the prison rather than defend it.
What a shame there was no follow up though.
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Just curious, but at what point does the tv series diverge from the comic? I was really into this until season 3. If the comic's different from any point before that I might consider reading it.
On April 02 2013 06:40 zoLo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else think that Rick's group should have taken Woodbury? There are pros and cons for both locations such as:
Prison (pros)
- Fences
- Towers (unless they're all blown up)
- Prison seemed more well built
- In a more spacious area compared to a town or city
cons
- Zombies lurking in the other part of the prison
- Running low on resources such as food and ammo
Woodbury (pros)
- More resources
- Military assets such as humvees
- Comfort because there are actual homes, restaurants, etc
- More space
- Barrier(s) protecting the town
Cons
- Since it is a town, other survivors will probably stumble upon it more often than a prison
- Defense flaws such as that one episode where a walker managed to squeezed through a hole in the defensive wall
Since the majority of the civilians have now moved into the prison, I find it hard how they will all managed in the future episodes. We do not know the whereabouts of the Governor since he may or may not go back to Woodbury .
Yeah, I was thinking that too but it makes more sense for them to get all the woodbury inhabitants to a secure place they're familiar with. They also don't know where the governor is. He's most likely going to return to woodbury, so trying to protect such a large place with so few people would be difficult.
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God just watched the finale. I have to say, I hope and strongly believe the writing in the graphic novels has to be substantially better than the crap writing they do for the show. This finale was just, ugh... At least Andrea finally went away!
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Just finished the finale. It was alright I guess, but lacking a bit. Last week, Merle's death was done amazingly from the start when Merle began to show signs of emotion, til the scene with him as a zombie. Andrea's death was just really meh. The governor turning on his own men was also kinda meh. The battle pretty much didn't happen. Also it bugged me when Hershel and Rick were opposed to Carl shooting the guy. You have one guy pointing a gun at a potential hostile, and this is going on during a battle. For all they know, the guy is only surrendering because he accidentally walked into a gun pointed at his head. Maybe if Hershel also had a gun, it would be different. Unless they can reliably take in a POW, they need to kill him right away.
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On April 02 2013 09:24 EpiK wrote:Just curious, but at what point does the tv series diverge from the comic? I was really into this until season 3. If the comic's different from any point before that I might consider reading it. Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 06:40 zoLo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else think that Rick's group should have taken Woodbury? There are pros and cons for both locations such as:
Prison (pros)
- Fences
- Towers (unless they're all blown up)
- Prison seemed more well built
- In a more spacious area compared to a town or city
cons
- Zombies lurking in the other part of the prison
- Running low on resources such as food and ammo
Woodbury (pros)
- More resources
- Military assets such as humvees
- Comfort because there are actual homes, restaurants, etc
- More space
- Barrier(s) protecting the town
Cons
- Since it is a town, other survivors will probably stumble upon it more often than a prison
- Defense flaws such as that one episode where a walker managed to squeezed through a hole in the defensive wall
Since the majority of the civilians have now moved into the prison, I find it hard how they will all managed in the future episodes. We do not know the whereabouts of the Governor since he may or may not go back to Woodbury . Yeah, I was thinking that too but it makes more sense for them to get all the woodbury inhabitants to a secure place they're familiar with. They also don't know where the governor is. He's most likely going to return to woodbury, so trying to protect such a large place with so few people would be difficult.
+ Show Spoiler +Diverges after season 1 episode 2 basically, haha. The show is nothing like the comic.
Honestly I'm still confused why people say it's so bad. Like, I can see where there are things I didn't like, but none of them were really "series ending for me".
I didn't like how early Maggie and Glenn took off their armour and was scared to heck they were going to die. I was also screaming at the screen at Andrea to hurry the hell up with the pliers. I can understand how it's pretty hard to kill a zombie with a pair of pliers too, so I don't get that argument. I wtf'd at Andrea, even though her entire arc made so much sense at the end. I thought she would have a bigger role to play, but I guess it fits her. Carl is turning out to be a mini-Governor, which is an awesome parallel with the Governor and Rick, so that scene set that up very well.
I say he's turning into a mini-Governor because as discussed, his idea is to kill first instead of taking the risk. Like the Governor emphasized in the beginning. You either kill or be killed because you didn't kill. So Carl killed, and his arc is making him like the Governor. Possibly even the Governor kidnaps him and they get along or something. But you can see how different that is from Rick, where he really, really, really wants to give people a chance. Like Michonne. Like the Governor. Like Tyreese last episode by walking out with his hands in the air. (maybe Merle? can't think atm) He believes in the goodness inside people, at least from right now.
The Governor's henchmen (that one guy) had his gun pointed at the Governor the entire time and didn't shoot. Same with the other guy. While I wanted them to shoot the Governor when he went all rampage-y, I understand why they wouldn't. He's still the leader. I also understand how angry the Governor was at his own people for ditching, and why he began to slaughter his own people. That made the scene so much more dramatic in my eyes. He's gone so far as to turn on his own people, that were only being 'human'.
The only thing I really hated was how I have no clue how the Governor is going to play in the next season, but I'll be glad to find out.
On April 02 2013 08:32 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 08:20 cms wrote:
I thought it whas a great finale. I don't understand all the hate for "da guvnah". He is hilarious and after Merle died he became my favorite character. The cool thing about him is that he has a well developed charming side and we also know he is a complete psychopath. So there are allot of ways they can make him a formidable threat in the new season, because lets face it, zombies just dont cut it anymore. I do like how Andrea died, she is a tragic character and she could have ended this season many episodes ago and she knew it. So now she has to suffer. Having Carl to assasinate that kid whas also very promising, lets just hope they do something interesting with this in the future. I do wonder about the guvs afro-american and mexican henchmen, it would have made more sense if they had just put him down after he mowed down a part of his own group. I'm also shocked to know that no one here seems to like any of the women in this show. What would you have the writers do, let them all be eaten by zombies? The hate isn't for the governor, it's for the plot they put him in. Governor was fine. Him killing off the whole group anti-climatically is boring. They build up to a showdown that really doesn't happen, woodbury magically becomes a non-threat, and the plot essentially moves no where other than a bunch of civilians moving in and andrea dying. All of this could have been accomplished much more elegantly in a normal episode.
I didn't find that the showdown they built was that anticlimatic. I was disappointed that there wasn't a grand finale Governor goes out guns blazing, but that was simply me trying to make the show like the comic. I like the familiarity. But I also enjoy how stupid the Governor is, and how the writers showed the entire Governor arc as someone who was mentally unstable that came into a lot of power because he was simply a good politician type guy, not because he was survivor smart, and then continued to run himself into a wall facing these civilians who've actually struggled and fought to stay alive over the last year. It seemed to fit pretty well to be, in terms of how consistent the Governor behaved this season.
The plot didn't move nowhere. Rick got over the loss of his wife. Rick and the group learned the value of the democracy versus the Rick-tatorship and the Governor's methods. Carl is developing into a mini-Governor. Tyreese becomes a stronger moral force in the show, despite still being pretty baller. Daryl is our bad-ass that we can relate to. Andrea "committed suicide" in a way that was consistent with losing her sister, and wanting to die, and losing Dale, and wanting to save everyone, but failing. I think that's just as strong a point as some of the things the comics stomped into us - you can't always save everyone in this world.
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I didn't like how early Maggie and Glenn took off their armour and was scared to heck they were going to die. I was also screaming at the screen at Andrea to hurry the hell up with the pliers
yeah, this is the difference between you/dedicated viewers and I at this point in the show; you feel feels for the characters during. I sat stone-faced the whole hour, could give two shits about andrea and only care about maggie and glenn in the same way a drowning man really cares about the last bit of debris he's clinging to.
why do you enjoy a character being stupid unless the show is making a greater point about it (where attributing it to some confirmation of politicians not being survivor-smart is tautological, insular crap). why would anyone...
how did andrea "commit suicide"? what? how did her arc make sense? what? what the fuck was her "arc"? she stayed ignorant and stupid the entire season and died before she could affect any change when she realized how dumb and played she was! it'd almost be a tragic flaw if she wasn't composed entirely of flaws!
you can comprehend all day long about why people aren't willing to cap their leadership and still not care. it's not compelling television on its own, it barely survives reasoning in a vacuum.
you can't always save everyone in this world.
I don't want this to sound personally insulting, but this conclusion is painfully facile. it's only more sad when I look back and see the show clearly wants this to be a meaningful one and that your reading is correct; this is the ending of the third season of the show, with how many corpses lining the roads from where these characters came from, and we're still touting this as some sort of interesting theme? just no.
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Well the point is you try to frame your own perception of people onto the characters. When they don't act in a way consistent to how you want them to act, you call them stupid instead of trying to accept and understand why they acted the way they did. You aren't willing to accept things the way they are because they don't conform to your view of it. I've found a view that makes sense to me and doesn't have any holes, and you're reasoning is only, the characters are stupid. It's getting tiring really.
If you watched The Talking Dead, Andrea committed suicide because she wanted so much to save everyone. It was her reasoning for not killing the Governor while he slept. It was her reasoning behind trying to bring Rick and the Governor together to try and get a truce between the two. She became so blind in her attempts to get everyone to get along nicely that she was manipulated and died for it. And she only realized at the end how stupid she was. That seems pretty fine to me... I can ignore the random plot holes with zombies showing up randomly because that makes sense.
It's been shown again and again that the Governor is not survivor-smart. Maybe in the sense that he has the ability to gather a community around him and enforce the law like he did, but not in any of the confrontations that he has engaged in. So he makes really bad tactical decisions, that has worked for him the entire time, until he met the opposing force in Rick, and that's why we had this conflict.
Well the themes in the comic are similarly as basic. Just a lot more twisted and fucked up to get the point across. I'm not saying it's interesting, I'm saying it's real, and it makes sense for people (Andrea) to die fighting for a theme (dream) like that.
@rd below, I like to think that the point of a finale is to slightly tie up everything that goes on in the season, not just provide a big bang, which is why I brought in points from the entire season.
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On April 02 2013 09:54 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 09:24 EpiK wrote:Just curious, but at what point does the tv series diverge from the comic? I was really into this until season 3. If the comic's different from any point before that I might consider reading it. On April 02 2013 06:40 zoLo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else think that Rick's group should have taken Woodbury? There are pros and cons for both locations such as:
Prison (pros)
- Fences
- Towers (unless they're all blown up)
- Prison seemed more well built
- In a more spacious area compared to a town or city
cons
- Zombies lurking in the other part of the prison
- Running low on resources such as food and ammo
Woodbury (pros)
- More resources
- Military assets such as humvees
- Comfort because there are actual homes, restaurants, etc
- More space
- Barrier(s) protecting the town
Cons
- Since it is a town, other survivors will probably stumble upon it more often than a prison
- Defense flaws such as that one episode where a walker managed to squeezed through a hole in the defensive wall
Since the majority of the civilians have now moved into the prison, I find it hard how they will all managed in the future episodes. We do not know the whereabouts of the Governor since he may or may not go back to Woodbury . Yeah, I was thinking that too but it makes more sense for them to get all the woodbury inhabitants to a secure place they're familiar with. They also don't know where the governor is. He's most likely going to return to woodbury, so trying to protect such a large place with so few people would be difficult. + Show Spoiler +Diverges after season 1 episode 2 basically, haha. The show is nothing like the comic. Honestly I'm still confused why people say it's so bad. Like, I can see where there are things I didn't like, but none of them were really "series ending for me". I didn't like how early Maggie and Glenn took off their armour and was scared to heck they were going to die. I was also screaming at the screen at Andrea to hurry the hell up with the pliers. I can understand how it's pretty hard to kill a zombie with a pair of pliers too, so I don't get that argument. I wtf'd at Andrea, even though her entire arc made so much sense at the end. I thought she would have a bigger role to play, but I guess it fits her. Carl is turning out to be a mini-Governor, which is an awesome parallel with the Governor and Rick, so that scene set that up very well. I say he's turning into a mini-Governor because as discussed, his idea is to kill first instead of taking the risk. Like the Governor emphasized in the beginning. You either kill or be killed because you didn't kill. So Carl killed, and his arc is making him like the Governor. Possibly even the Governor kidnaps him and they get along or something. But you can see how different that is from Rick, where he really, really, really wants to give people a chance. Like Michonne. Like the Governor. Like Tyreese last episode by walking out with his hands in the air. (maybe Merle? can't think atm) He believes in the goodness inside people, at least from right now. The Governor's henchmen (that one guy) had his gun pointed at the Governor the entire time and didn't shoot. Same with the other guy. While I wanted them to shoot the Governor when he went all rampage-y, I understand why they wouldn't. He's still the leader. I also understand how angry the Governor was at his own people for ditching, and why he began to slaughter his own people. That made the scene so much more dramatic in my eyes. He's gone so far as to turn on his own people, that were only being 'human'. The only thing I really hated was how I have no clue how the Governor is going to play in the next season, but I'll be glad to find out. Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 08:32 rd wrote:On April 02 2013 08:20 cms wrote:
I thought it whas a great finale. I don't understand all the hate for "da guvnah". He is hilarious and after Merle died he became my favorite character. The cool thing about him is that he has a well developed charming side and we also know he is a complete psychopath. So there are allot of ways they can make him a formidable threat in the new season, because lets face it, zombies just dont cut it anymore. I do like how Andrea died, she is a tragic character and she could have ended this season many episodes ago and she knew it. So now she has to suffer. Having Carl to assasinate that kid whas also very promising, lets just hope they do something interesting with this in the future. I do wonder about the guvs afro-american and mexican henchmen, it would have made more sense if they had just put him down after he mowed down a part of his own group. I'm also shocked to know that no one here seems to like any of the women in this show. What would you have the writers do, let them all be eaten by zombies? The hate isn't for the governor, it's for the plot they put him in. Governor was fine. Him killing off the whole group anti-climatically is boring. They build up to a showdown that really doesn't happen, woodbury magically becomes a non-threat, and the plot essentially moves no where other than a bunch of civilians moving in and andrea dying. All of this could have been accomplished much more elegantly in a normal episode. I didn't find that the showdown they built was that anticlimatic. I was disappointed that there wasn't a grand finale Governor goes out guns blazing, but that was simply me trying to make the show like the comic. I like the familiarity. But I also enjoy how stupid the Governor is, and how the writers showed the entire Governor arc as someone who was mentally unstable that came into a lot of power because he was simply a good politician type guy, not because he was survivor smart, and then continued to run himself into a wall facing these civilians who've actually struggled and fought to stay alive over the last year. It seemed to fit pretty well to be, in terms of how consistent the Governor behaved this season. The plot didn't move nowhere. Rick got over the loss of his wife. Rick and the group learned the value of the democracy versus the Rick-tatorship and the Governor's methods. Carl is developing into a mini-Governor. Tyreese becomes a stronger moral force in the show, despite still being pretty baller. Daryl is our bad-ass that we can relate to. Andrea "committed suicide" in a way that was consistent with losing her sister, and wanting to die, and losing Dale, and wanting to save everyone, but failing. I think that's just as strong a point as some of the things the comics stomped into us - you can't always save everyone in this world.
When compared to what I'd expect from a finale, it amounts to virtually no plot movement. Like I said, everything accomplished in this episode would have been more appropriate to present in a normal episode. Last episode would have been a more fitting finale if it included Milton and Andrea's death.
Every element of the plot that did move was clumsily crow barred in. The Governor remains an antagonist at large, and the group is still at the prison thanks to the deus ex machina as opposed to any real confrontation. Even when Rick confronts Tyreese at woodbury, we're panned immediately to the group arriving back at the prison with the inhabitants of Woodbury. Just casually tossed in. The governor happens to shoot everyone in woodbury, Tyreese happens to have stayed behind to join up with Rick, and a bunch of people flood into the Prison, and none of it is given any meaningful transition. It just happens and we're supposed to believe it.
Carl's transformation into the mini-governor is poorly portrayed. The actor he shot did not look like he was harmless at all. I'd have shot him too, and it makes Rick and Herschel come off like dicks, and Carl a badass -- or at least he could have been a badass if they didn't take every opportunity to depict Carl as a prepubescent girl, having him stomp off before having to explain himself in a fairly unnatural and awkward dialogue between him and Rick.
The only really meaningful event that was decently portrayed was Andrea and Milton's deaths. Everything else you mentioned was more relevant to the season rather than the finale specifically and received very little attention and appropriately so, as they were intended to be minor compared to the rest of the events. If this was just a normal episode it'd have been perfectly fine, and it unfortunately drags down what could have been a really good season.
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On April 02 2013 10:32 rd wrote:
Every element of the plot that did move was clumsily crow barred in. The Governor remains an antagonist at large, and the group is still at the prison thanks to the deus ex machina as opposed to any real confrontation. Even when Rick confronts Tyreese at woodbury, we're panned immediately to the group arriving back at the prison with the inhabitants of Woodbury. Just casually tossed in. The governor happens to shoot everyone in woodbury, Tyreese happens to have stayed behind to join up with Rick, and a bunch of people flood into the Prison, and none of it is given any meaningful transition. It just happens and we're supposed to believe it.
Carl's transformation into the mini-governor is poorly portrayed. The actor he shot did not look like he was harmless at all. I'd have shot him too, and it makes Rick and Herschel come off like dicks, and Carl a badass -- or at least he could have been a badass if they didn't take every opportunity to depict Carl as a prepubescent girl, having him stomp off before having to explain himself in a fairly unnatural and awkward dialogue between him and Rick.
I guess I kind of understand why it feels so "anticlimatic". I still really attribute a lot of it to me trying to not point of all the things I would do instead of them in this scene and that scene. But I see how you would feel "wtf" when they cut across scenes like that. Maybe it's just bad directing, but I remember in one episode of The Talking Dead they were talking about how they cut scenes and zoomed in and did the choreography to evoke a certain effect on you. I guess it didn't evoke the same effect on everyone, but I rather felt the "wtf" as in, "goddammit was it really that easy?" Or even, did the Governor just defeat himself in a sense. But I get why people would get angry. For a lot of the instant transition scenes I'm just more in shock, "you can't possibly do this and just walk away so easily", which is a similar feeling I get when a scene is seemingly cut short. Maybe too many jumps, but I only really notice most of them when I read all the criticisms about them in this thread, :d
And I can agree with Carl's thing, but I always just defend the director for the decisions - he looked super suspicious because he's supposed to be suspicious. It tries to give the sense that Carl might be right, or he might be wrong. Obviously if the guy was not suspicious in the least there would be no reason to shoot, and Carl would be instantly wrong in having done so, but the way it was done made it a lot more grey, which is what I enjoy, and it makes Carl (and the Governor) a bit more justifiable in his actions. And of course, the accused always feel like their actions are justified.
I just enjoy getting sucked into a show. I'm not actively trying to cut myself out of the reality of the show by trying to find the "glaring inconsistencies". I try to accept it as a show and try to find some way everything fits in. That way I can actually enjoy the show. I have things I would like to change like how walkers randomly appear, but for the most part, everything seems to consistently work together to evoke an emotion and draw me in. Or at least, I let it draw me in instead of resisting everything that doesn't make sense at first glance.
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On April 02 2013 10:45 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 10:32 rd wrote:
Every element of the plot that did move was clumsily crow barred in. The Governor remains an antagonist at large, and the group is still at the prison thanks to the deus ex machina as opposed to any real confrontation. Even when Rick confronts Tyreese at woodbury, we're panned immediately to the group arriving back at the prison with the inhabitants of Woodbury. Just casually tossed in. The governor happens to shoot everyone in woodbury, Tyreese happens to have stayed behind to join up with Rick, and a bunch of people flood into the Prison, and none of it is given any meaningful transition. It just happens and we're supposed to believe it.
Carl's transformation into the mini-governor is poorly portrayed. The actor he shot did not look like he was harmless at all. I'd have shot him too, and it makes Rick and Herschel come off like dicks, and Carl a badass -- or at least he could have been a badass if they didn't take every opportunity to depict Carl as a prepubescent girl, having him stomp off before having to explain himself in a fairly unnatural and awkward dialogue between him and Rick. I guess I kind of understand why it feels so "anticlimatic". I still really attribute a lot of it to me trying to not point of all the things I would do instead of them in this scene and that scene. But I see how you would feel "wtf" when they cut across scenes like that. Maybe it's just bad directing, but I remember in one episode of The Talking Dead they were talking about how they cut scenes and zoomed in and did the choreography to evoke a certain effect on you. I guess it didn't evoke the same effect on everyone, but I rather felt the "wtf" as in, "goddammit was it really that easy?" Or even, did the Governor just defeat himself in a sense. But I get why people would get angry. For a lot of the instant transition scenes I'm just more in shock, "you can't possibly do this and just walk away so easily." And I can agree with Carl's thing, but I always just defend the director for the decisions - he looked super suspicious because he's supposed to be suspicious. It evokes that sense of Carl might be right, or he might be wrong. Obviously if the guy was not suspicious at all there would be no reason to shoot, and Carl would be instantly wrong in having done so, but the way it was done made it a lot more grey, which is what I enjoy.
It was a LOT of transitions, both in scene and plot. It amounts to a huge wtf when combined with where you would expect the plot to go after 15 episodes of build up. It was a finale that was coming down from the climax in episode 15.
It was fine if the actor was supposed to be suspicious, but then it contradicts the intention (if intended at all) of portraying Carl like a mini-governor. It's not really a grey area anymore, it's fairly straight forward that Carl had no choice to shoot and everyone in the audience could agree with him. Which then makes Herschel come off like a nagging douche trying to rile up drama for the sake of riling up drama. It was all very forced. I never even realized the parallel between what the Governor said at the beginning and what Carl said at the end right away because a scene that could have been powerful was executed so poorly. It's like they tried to accomplish both which produced the unnatural feel that ultimately left me annoyed.
edit: I normally try to stay out of analysis of a show to get sucked in too, and I'm normally content. TWD and Batman Begins are probably the only two pieces of film that have ever pulled me so far from my easily immersed attention that I felt compelled to just be mad and cynical. I didn't even mind season 2 that much until they revealed Sophia in the barn which immediately pulled me out of the show when I had to think to myself that was just way too convenient, stupid, and anticlimactic. Then the random arguments between Lori and Rick were aggravating, the way people seemed to go out of their way to be mad at the most trivial shit for the sake of drama. I hated that about the comics too, where it was much worse. + Show Spoiler [comic] +The way Rick and Shane argue about how to move the group, how Rick and the farmer whatever his name just start shouting over irrational shit after the farmer's son died, serious conversations that just erupted into huge plot devices and came off stupid. It happened in the TWD game, too. Minor disputes are made into major conflicts that come off as being unnatural and stupid. It literally just makes you want to hate the character for being so narrow minded.
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I shouted "Fuck yeah" so loud when Rick opened the door that my neighbors probably wondered wtf was going on.
Sadly that was the only good thing about the episode  I'm not put off at all when they stray from the comics in general. But this was a travesty of epic incongruence.
Sad panda.
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the characters are stupid, the plotting is pedestrian and the themes are facile. that's pretty much the problem, it's not like this hasn't been evident since season 2. everything in this show exists in its own little world, the world of the zombie apocalypse, and people are apparently willing to leave everything they know of reasonable logic and reasonable characters just to experience this. again, not like I wasn't down with this until it stopped being fun and there was no tension or reasons to care left in the plotting from episode to episode.
it's also not about what I or most viewers would do, because most of us would be zombies. it's about people acting in ways that don't create needless or empty drama re: andrea not killing the governor for the stupidest reasons possible. if it weren't established that andrea is an idiot and that some people would indeed be like this, it would be a plot hole, but you can't just say that someone acting irrationally is technically a plot hole, which is the only thing that saves TWD from pure and utter contempt. every drama creates tension and conflict from irrationality - or else you have no conflict, no drama and no show - but I've never seen it done quite so brazenly and ridiculously as on this show.
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It was a GOOD episode. People just want it to be AMAZING for a season finale, for a season finale it was fine. Just because it didn't have that wow factor for a finale doesnt make it a bad episode.
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On April 02 2013 11:33 -Popsycle- wrote:
It was a GOOD episode. People just want it to be AMAZING for a season finale, for a season finale it was fine. Just because it didn't have that wow factor for a finale doesnt make it a bad episode.
Hmm no, as I read it, most people complaining here think its both a bad finale and a bad episode anyway. Now I won't say that you are wrong to like the episode, it's your opinion and I respect it but don't fool yourself thinking people disliked it ONLY because it wasn't epic.
O maybe I'd say it was as good as the previous episodes of this late season... which is poor imo. But like I said, I still enjoyed the first half of this season, I was saying to myself they finally went back to the real deal and stopped the bullshit. But then since february it has been a huge disapointment. Nevertheless, I'll probably watch S4 only because the first half season was good so somehow I still want to give it its chance for the few good moments.
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EPT
