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Really must-see movie. I found the main idea very interesting, and loved the way it presented certain ideas and concepts. I will have no regrets about watching it again if I someone asks me to. Maybe next time, I won't have an annoying guy seated behind me spouting gems such as "They're fighting PROJECTIONS!" and "COOL!!!" the whole movie. Well hello there Captain Obvious! It's a good thing he usually started jawing during the action scenes and we were watching in a Dolby theatre so the sound effects and soundtrack partially drowned him out. He shares the blame for my missing some of the finer details in the movie- I particularly want to see the scene with Fischer, Mal, Ariadne, and Cobbs near the ending again.
Am I the only one who found the soundtrack disturbing or very sticky? I was eating out with my friends after the movie and partially zoning out because I couldn't get it out of my head.
+ Show Spoiler +The optimist in me says that the ending was reality. If I remember correctly, reaching limbo in multiple levels of dreaming by dying in a dream (out of your control) was a cold lonely place where you are alone and waiting to die, as Cobbs and old Saito said in their scene. Cobbs and Mal were able to create a world for themselves since they chose to do it together. Of course if it turned out that Cobbs was somehow able to create his own limbo while dying in any different level of Fischer's dream (Saito killing him for example), that would be a different thing altogether.
I also don't think that Mal was right. Let's say by killing herself by jumping off the building, she woke up to true reality. If Cobbs' reality was still a level of dreaming, wouldn't she be able to waltz in any time she likes in his reality and kill him or at the very least appear to him and continue to appeal to him to kill himself? (Or is it not possible to go back to the same deeper level of dreaming once you have exited it?) Instead, she only shows up when he's fully aware that he's dreaming and keeps on begging him to stay with her.
However, by typing this all out I realize that I definitely have to watch it again as things may get clearer and I still have many questions. Why would Ariadne leave him? She seemed to know that it is possible that he and Saito would be able to get out after everyone else so how would that be?
All reality questions aside, one of the things I enjoyed was the presentation of his not being able to let go of Mal in his subconscious. One the highest level, you had their best memories, and other memories in other levels. But in the end, consciously choosing to go back and re-live (maybe living in) memories of them in dreams turns the other person into a prisoner who you always hold on to, know that you should let go, but can't bring yourself to. Instead you always visit, gaze, and leave again, allowing this person to run wild in your subconscious and consequently all your dreams.
I also liked having being dropped in a dream or dying as a means to wake you up since it's something most people really experience and remember- that dream where you somehow ended up falling, then suddenly woke up in your bed, out of breath but alert and fully conscious with the distinct feeling of having just landed there. Or the dreams where you died and suddenly woke up, taking a few seconds to think if you're dead or not. The few times both scenarios have happened to me were super freaky, I imagine choosing doing that on a regular basis would drive anyone a little nuts. Those few seconds extend into minutes, into a feeling of losing grip on reality, and then finally into a panic attack whenever you wake up from a dream, hence the need for a totem.
Totems open a whole can of worms, so I won't go into them again. I think that Cobbs told Ariadne what would happen with his totem, but didn't let her actually hold it, so maybe he could still tell that it was real by the weight? And in the end, having being convinced that it was real by holding it, he just absentmindedly spun it? Which of course does not explain the times that he was clearly waiting for the top to stop after having held it, so never mind. I shouldn't have gone into them again.
While writing this post, my friend has just texted me saying that she's having a hard time falling asleep and blamed it on the movie.
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On July 18 2010 23:42 ellerina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If Cobbs' reality was still a level of dreaming, wouldn't she be able to waltz in any time she likes in his reality and kill him or at the very least appear to him and continue to appeal to him to kill himself? + Show Spoiler +Something to watch for on a next viewing is cobb's wedding band. Apparently he is not wearing it on the top level and is in all the dreams (and its off for the final scene). But rather than that being an indicator of whether its a dream or not, it could just represent his feelings for Mal. And so even if the top level and the final scene are dreams, if he's not wearing the wedding band he has rejected the possibility Mal will be there and so she won't be.
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This is a well thought out theorycraft haha
I wouldn't be surprised if the debates keeps going for a while. If it wouldn't spoil the movie, i'd want to open up a poll to see what people thought really happened at the end.
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On July 19 2010 00:55 sLiniss wrote: If it wouldn't spoil the movie, i'd want to open up a poll to see what people thought really happened at the end.
If you're talking about the totem specifically, nal_Rawr already has a poll up on page 12.
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+ Show Spoiler +A number of people were confused by how during the train track suicides, Cobb and Mal were both their young selves when in fact they "grew old" together in limbo. One of the imdb posts mentioned that we were seeing Ariadne's incorrect interpretation of what actually happened. Later, Cobb reveals that he lived 50 years with her there, and the old age is revealed as an 'ah ha' moment.
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omg so hard not to look. thanks for spoilers. i wont look, and ill be able to watch the movie spoiler free
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That is pretty much a more detailed and written out version of my thoughts I posted earlier. Now that I have read this I am pretty much convinced that, while things can be interpreted in different ways, this is the most accurate theory that reflects the original ideas of script writer/director.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 19 2010 03:12 Smorrie wrote:That is pretty much a more detailed and written out version of my thoughts I posted earlier. Now that I have read this I am pretty much convinced that, while things can be interpreted in different ways, this is the most accurate theory that reflects the original ideas of script writer/director. Eh, that doesn't convince me at all :o far from my understanding and interpretation of the movie. There are too many "oh this doesn't sound like it's really possible...must be dream!" parts to be persuasive. It's a movie.
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On July 19 2010 03:12 Smorrie wrote:That is pretty much a more detailed and written out version of my thoughts I posted earlier. Now that I have read this I am pretty much convinced that, while things can be interpreted in different ways, this is the most accurate theory that reflects the original ideas of script writer/director.
That can't be correct. Like one person said earlier in this thread. Notice his wedding band, it's not on at all when he's in reality, but when he's in a dream he has it on.
Other than that, the movie was amazing. Best movie of the year hands down, pretty close to Shutter Island as well.
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Man... Not sure what it is but this movie never caught my attention, just doesn't appeal to me. I might give it a looking at when it comes out on DVD but doubt I would go see it in theaters.
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On July 19 2010 03:56 GreEny K wrote: Man... Not sure what it is but this movie never caught my attention, just doesn't appeal to me. I might give it a looking at when it comes out on DVD but doubt I would go see it in theaters.
Then you just missed a great film.
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United States10774 Posts
On July 19 2010 03:56 GreEny K wrote: Man... Not sure what it is but this movie never caught my attention, just doesn't appeal to me. I might give it a looking at when it comes out on DVD but doubt I would go see it in theaters. Lol that's a horrible reason to not go see a great, creative film with good reviews. But whatever floats your boat.
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I think it has to be one of the greatest open-ended films ever. The lack of explanation and sheer wealth of content allows the viewer to make up his own mind about what actually happened. I think it's great that there are so many theories about the plot. Personally I hate those annoying epilogues where they fill out the remainder of the characters lives; this is much better. + Show Spoiler +As I said before I think the only logical outcome is that the totem stops spinning and Cobb is in the real world.
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On July 19 2010 03:42 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 03:12 Smorrie wrote:That is pretty much a more detailed and written out version of my thoughts I posted earlier. Now that I have read this I am pretty much convinced that, while things can be interpreted in different ways, this is the most accurate theory that reflects the original ideas of script writer/director. Eh, that doesn't convince me at all :o far from my understanding and interpretation of the movie. There are too many "oh this doesn't sound like it's really possible...must be dream!" parts to be persuasive. It's a movie.
+ Show Spoiler +Of course it's a movie and I don't stand behind every single point he makes but the main idea is very clear. Like I said earlier, it seems very likely that Mal is back in the real world and we are just wandering through Cobb's limbo. The fact that Saito would not be able to make a phone call and get rid of Cobb's charges is irrelevant. Of course it's not possible irl, but like you said it is a movie - the fact that he wouldn't be able to make such a phone call is a very weak argument.
I don't even know if the totem really starts losing speed - Nolan wanted to make a clear statement that his totem keeps spinning, by making it the final shot. When Cobb fixes his eyes on his children though, his children are once again at the exact same place in the exact same pose - one of his own memories.
The "take a leap of faith" quote comes back multiple times in the movie. It's not randomly put in. It refers back to Cobb's most intense memory - Mal taking the leap of faith.
Anyway, things would probably get a lot clearer when I can see the movie again. Just like the wedding band rumor that went totally unnoticed to me. In reply to Shockeyy: While not wearing the wedding band in the upper level doesn't really tell us anything and I don't see how it would disprove this theory. Does he acknowledge Mal to be no more and thus he removed the ring? Does it mean they never were married?
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+ Show Spoiler +Saito saying leap of faith could of been interpreted as a sign by Cobb's thats he should do this, I mean its not an entirely uncommon thing to say.
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On July 19 2010 00:55 sLiniss wrote:This is a well thought out theorycraft haha I wouldn't be surprised if the debates keeps going for a while. If it wouldn't spoil the movie, i'd want to open up a poll to see what people thought really happened at the end.
I saw a poll like that on another site and it was straight down the middle 50/50.
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Mind blown. Great movie, must watch.
Good acting as well, especially from leonardo. Will be a classic that people 50 years from now will want to watch.
I hope that this movie is an example of the future of sci-fi. Focusing on story and character development, with less focus on the cgi or technology, but still a part of the movie. I think they used it properly though. To make the mind understand a concept that wasn't really possible to understand.
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Absolutely fantastic movie. I seriously wasn't expecting it to be so incredible.
My take on the ending.
+ Show Spoiler [ending] +It has to be real. First off, I like to point out that the kids didn't necessarily grow older - we have no idea how long ago his wife's death was. Second, the clothing issue really just seems to be a slip-up by the costume people - you never see them in any other outfit in the entire movie, so it seems like a minor thing that they screwed up on. His escape from Limbo was also completely feasible - he killed himself to get out last time, and he survive and was completely mentally stable from last time, so it's possible for him and Saito to do it again.
The important things supporting it being reality are three main points.
1) Even if it was a dream, he'd literally just turn around and see that it is a dream. Isn't that kind of a useless ending?
2) When he and Saito woke up, there was no period of "what's going on?" Saito almost instantly picks up the phone and calls the favor in, and Cobb goes straight to looking at him and the others to make sure he's out.
3) The world simply couldn't be his creation. Like Cobb said, it took years for him and his wife to create that world of theirs, and he wouldn't just be able to re-create all of that scenery (the airport, the places, his house, and most importantly, so many people!) in that short of a time (it's reasonable to assume getting to his kids is one of the first things his subconscious would create). Not only that, from what we've seen, no one (Cobb, Mal, or Saito) has been completely oblivious to the fact that they're in Limbo - they at least know that they can create things, and Cobb having his totem and realizing that it was a dream (if it was) would immediately tip him off to everything.
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On July 18 2010 23:42 ellerina wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I also don't think that Mal was right. Let's say by killing herself by jumping off the building, she woke up to true reality. If Cobbs' reality was still a level of dreaming, wouldn't she be able to waltz in any time she likes in his reality and kill him or at the very least appear to him and continue to appeal to him to kill himself? (Or is it not possible to go back to the same deeper level of dreaming once you have exited it?) Instead, she only shows up when he's fully aware that he's dreaming and keeps on begging him to stay with her.
+ Show Spoiler + Perhaps she did wake up to true reality by jumping off the building. However, she committed suicide in true reality afterwards because she still believed she was dreaming. That would explain why she couldn't go back to Cobb's dream except as a projection of Cobb's mind.
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