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On May 11 2018 21:37 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 21:20 Kipsate wrote:On May 11 2018 20:23 nojok wrote:On May 11 2018 20:17 Sapaio wrote:On May 11 2018 20:11 maze. wrote:On May 11 2018 19:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:On May 11 2018 19:12 maze. wrote:On May 11 2018 19:06 cecek wrote:
So I guess EG doesn't wanna make TI this year, huh? At this rate EG is gonna lose in the NA qualifier against Optic and miss TI. I expect we're going to get a lot more qualifier spots, in all regions, this year. 2 Qualifiers per region sounds a lot better. There's around 24 teams that can compete at TI this season. Assuming 18 teams again and 8 invites: 2 NA 1 SA 1 EU 2 SEA 2 CIS 2 CHINA. Maybe swap EU and CIS, but EU is weak this season apart from the top teams. I just want a PPD vs EG grudge match for a TI spot. Why does NA deserve 2 invites, when not 1 team has made direct invite. But EU that has 2 of the best in World. As region that rewarded not punished although watching Final tribe is kind of sad Let's be honest, EU is pretty shit nowadays. The top end is good but the average level is far from what it used to be. The split from the CIS scene was not a good thing imo, it would have been better to keep a big region with more qualifying spots. Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? Come on, please give Secret more respect. They won some major this year and are stil in tournament. Top Tier Secret, Liquid Mid Tier OG Lower tier Final tribe, Kinguin and mad lads. But think NA Top Tier - Mid tier. - Lower tier. VG storm. Complexity, Optic & EG Can't really see why you feel they deserve so much respect. Final tribe is about same level as them. Would have put EG higher as i like them, but they just lost to Keen.
I think you are putting Optic and EG down a bit too much. EG was disappointing here, but they are still 9th in points. Optic also recently won SL.
People aren't comparing NA to EU as a whole, but rather the NA qual to EU qual if EG also falls out of top8. At that point NA qual has 2 teams that have DPC points, whereas EU qual only has OG. Secret and Liquid are always invited so they aren't relevant to the comparison.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't think that Optic and EG are actually that terrible, they are worse then Secret/OG likely but they will probably beat most other EU teams that I can think off.
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On May 11 2018 21:51 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think that Optic and EG are actually that terrible, they are worse then Secret/OG likely but they will probably beat most other EU teams that I can think off.
Optic has been roughly somewhere between the 4th to 7th best team at multiple Majors. They've probably gotten the worst bracket "luck" of the major system so far. (Heck, one major they qualified to stopped being a DPC tournament.)
We also have to remember that there's always the issue of "On LAN" when it comes to the best captains in the game. Kuro, Puppey, Fly & ppd can win series almost on their own at times.
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On May 11 2018 21:50 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 21:37 Sapaio wrote:On May 11 2018 21:20 Kipsate wrote:On May 11 2018 20:23 nojok wrote:On May 11 2018 20:17 Sapaio wrote:On May 11 2018 20:11 maze. wrote:On May 11 2018 19:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:On May 11 2018 19:12 maze. wrote:On May 11 2018 19:06 cecek wrote:
So I guess EG doesn't wanna make TI this year, huh? At this rate EG is gonna lose in the NA qualifier against Optic and miss TI. I expect we're going to get a lot more qualifier spots, in all regions, this year. 2 Qualifiers per region sounds a lot better. There's around 24 teams that can compete at TI this season. Assuming 18 teams again and 8 invites: 2 NA 1 SA 1 EU 2 SEA 2 CIS 2 CHINA. Maybe swap EU and CIS, but EU is weak this season apart from the top teams. I just want a PPD vs EG grudge match for a TI spot. Why does NA deserve 2 invites, when not 1 team has made direct invite. But EU that has 2 of the best in World. As region that rewarded not punished although watching Final tribe is kind of sad Let's be honest, EU is pretty shit nowadays. The top end is good but the average level is far from what it used to be. The split from the CIS scene was not a good thing imo, it would have been better to keep a big region with more qualifying spots. Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? Come on, please give Secret more respect. They won some major this year and are stil in tournament. Top Tier Secret, Liquid Mid Tier OG Lower tier Final tribe, Kinguin and mad lads. But think NA Top Tier - Mid tier. - Lower tier. VG storm. Complexity, Optic & EG Can't really see why you feel they deserve so much respect. Final tribe is about same level as them. Would have put EG higher as i like them, but they just lost to Keen. I think you are putting Optic and EG down a bit too much. EG was disappointing here, but they are still 9th in points. Optic also recently won SL. People aren't comparing NA to EU as a whole, but rather the NA qual to EU qual if EG also falls out of top8. At that point NA qual has 2 teams that have DPC points, whereas EU qual only has OG. Secret and Liquid are always invited so they aren't relevant to the comparison.
Yes you are properly right. But if you take away EG from qual i think EU deserve it as much as NA and more. So my problem is that you are rewarding a region and team for failing to qual directly to TI. It just doesn't seem like a fair way to do it.
In sports I normally follow like football. Teams qualify to the CL and EL after how many points the teams have made in prior years. So for me it just seem like you give NA a reward for not being good enough to secure a direct invite. This reminds me for kids tournament where every kid that participate get a medal. Maybe i am strange feeling that way.
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If you want competitive invite current top5 ( only 5 ). Give China 4 qualis , Eu 1 , Cis 1, NA + SA 3(one on SA server) and Sea 2 and we fine. But it wont happen.
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Mass control & vision has been the Meta for a bit, it's kind of annoying teams don't get that.
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Also, TFT did the classic stupid thing T2 teams do: they picked a comfort hero in a Game 3 when it isn't a Meta pick. They almost always lose because of it.
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I want invites to be based on DCP so the regions that have made most point in current season should have most teams at TI. Think that is most fair and logical.
Here top 8 have invite. Then every region has to have one qual. Think if the are two spots left. They should go to two regions that have made most total points during the season. For me that is the most logical approach.
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Turns out TFT threw harder.
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On May 11 2018 22:20 Sapaio wrote:
I want invites to be based on DCP so the regions that have made most point in current season should have most teams at TI. Think that is most fair and logical.
Here top 8 have invite. Then every region has to have one qual. Think if the are two spots left. They should go to two regions that have made most total points during the season. For me that is the most logical approach.
TL being good doesn't mean that TFT or Kinguin is. TL has been invited all season (and Secret has also been in the latter part of the season), which has allowed other EU teams to get to LANs, but they haven't managed to get any points.
SEA and NA both have 2 teams that have DPC points outside the top8. That imo is a better metric for how "deserving" the qualifier teams are. We'll see how the teams finish, but it's quite possible that the winner of the EU qual wouldn't even get top2 in SEA or NA quals (depending on whether Fnatic, TNC or EG manage to get top8 and how you rank OG).
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Sad EG lost but I'm pretty glad MSS won
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If you want fair system then. Let all second placed team in qual battle it out against each other in round robin tournament.
Remember that teams from EU have had hard time getting to tournaments because Secret and Liquid was already there, also part of reason why some tier 2 teams from EU has disappeared. So not fair to say NA teams get more points than other EU teams. Because the spots being taken by Secret and Liquid have prevent them taking them.
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On May 11 2018 22:33 Sapaio wrote:
If you want fair system then. Let all second placed team in qual battle it out against each other in round robin tournament.
Remember that teams from EU have had hard time getting to tournaments because Secret and Liquid was already there, also part of reason why some tier 2 teams from EU has disappeared. So not fair to say NA teams get more points than other EU teams. Because the spots being taken by Secret and Liquid have prevent them taking them.
Secret and Liquid being invited has meant that there are more EU teams at events. They haven't really taken spots away. In the beginning of the season Secret was in the qualifiers, but after a while they started to get invites as well.
We've seen teams like Penta, Planet Dog, Kinguin, and TFT get to LANs
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On May 11 2018 22:17 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Mass control & vision has been the Meta for a bit, it's kind of annoying teams don't get that.
How would you describe these lineups if not mass control & vision? One team has NS, the other has Beastmaster, TA and Luna. Both teams have heroes to stun lock people. Didn't see much of the game but feels like TFT's lineup just is somewhat worse in pretty much all aspects outside of the lategame PL factor, but I don't think the concepts are that far from that.
Also in general I feel like vision is pretty much always popular. Some teams prioritize it more, but I don't think much has changed in that regard. If you don't have a strict vision hero, you may have heroes that push waves in so fast that you get information through that. Hard to play dota otherwise.
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Jesus MDL starts RIGHT after GESC huh
Hope Secret don't burn themselves out playing
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On May 11 2018 22:39 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 22:33 Sapaio wrote:
If you want fair system then. Let all second placed team in qual battle it out against each other in round robin tournament.
Remember that teams from EU have had hard time getting to tournaments because Secret and Liquid was already there, also part of reason why some tier 2 teams from EU has disappeared. So not fair to say NA teams get more points than other EU teams. Because the spots being taken by Secret and Liquid have prevent them taking them. Secret and Liquid being invited has meant that there are more EU teams at events. They haven't really taken spots away. In the beginning of the season Secret was in the qualifiers, but after a while they started to get invites as well. We've seen teams like Penta, Planet Dog, Kinguin, and TFT get to LANs
Yep, it's just they're so weak compared to international competition they often bomb out in the first or second round and people forget they were even there
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EPT
