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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
 GESC GESC/Thailand Minor/2018/Group StageStreamsFormat
Teams!![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/secret_white.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/eg.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/fnatic.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/Team_VGJ.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/tehh4ck3r/team_logos/keen_gaming.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/tehh4ck3r/team_logos/alpha_red.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/tehh4ck3r/team_logos/tft.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/sg.png) Fixtures & ResultsFriday, May 11 10:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) ![[image loading]](/staff/tehh4ck3r/team_logos/vgj_storm.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/064d51fc399a09f46e3024cb5f7864f0.png) CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GESC | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
Poll: Evil Geniuses vs Keen Gaming Evil Geniuses Win (10) Keen Gaming Win (4) 14 total votes Your vote: Evil Geniuses vs Keen Gaming | ||
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
I think its better for EG though as they can get match practice in the new patch before they face Secret (unless EG crashes out). VGJ.Storm vs The Final Tribe is anyone's game for me, but whoever wins should have a very hard time vs Fnatic. PS : Just voted for TFT as they had zero votes, but this is a real 50-50 for me. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Nomad115
42 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Nomad115
42 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
"Good" Keen showed up, but EG didn't play their draft right. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 17:25 Sapaio wrote: Was WW banned don't understand Keen taking WD instead of it. The cloakwork is pretty useless in this game. No. | ||
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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obviously_b4d
2 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2718 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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wims80
1892 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:23 wims80 wrote: This KG team doesn't seem to value objectives at all They're Throw Central. They're just more practiced against Chinese competition. EG has just drafted themselves into a corner & are playing into Keen's strategy. Keen is putting themselves in a position that it's hard to throw. I'm really unimpressed with EG's drafting with Bulba doing it. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
PL should not surprise EG as last pick. | ||
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obviously_b4d
2 Posts
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DropBear
Australia4353 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:41 HaXxorIzed wrote: Zero leadership, zero clue. Dark is generally Keen's best player. | ||
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calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
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Nomad115
42 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:42 Taf the Ghost wrote: EG.Kyle inc? The ultimate clash of styles Kyle : "omg, it's minute 25 and we have yet to take a lane of rax?!" rest of EG : "one of our cores is not 6 slotted yet, better farm some more" | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
Dark was great, - but that comment was about how EG really had no clue that game. It was disappointing on the level of "pretty sure there was an offensive ward from KG in EG's in their base that timed out, and EG had Beastmaster with necros". | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
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550
418 Posts
until 15 mins they still pretty awful what the hell EG | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
HOW | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
 Yeah they are a young stack with young players and they play like it. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:47 HaXxorIzed wrote: Dark was great, - but EG really had no clue that game. It was disappointing on the level of "pretty sure there was an offensive ward from KG in EG's in their base that timed out, and EG had Beastmaster with necros". Oh, EG was playing poorly. I'd avoid saying "bad", as we saw what actual bad is (and we're about to get more of it from TFT vs VGJ.Storm), but Keen aren't scrubs & EG played them like that. Heck, Keen was again trying to throw game 3, but EG drafted too many squishy heroes into a Doom. EG will still make it through NA Qualifiers, as they can't be caught off guard by the NA crew, but that was pretty sad. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:53 LemOn wrote: how the hell did razor farm so well? HOW He was feed pretty well. He rotated with Doom several times and got most of the early kills. | ||
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uthgard
2098 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
balance it with chairs dammit | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:59 LemOn wrote: WTF are those height differences on the panel haha balance it with chairs dammit They are just showing its ok to have dwarfs on the panel | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
by Donald Trump | ||
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
On May 11 2018 18:55 Taf the Ghost wrote: EG will still make it through NA Qualifiers, as they can't be caught off guard by the NA crew, but that was pretty sad. I am not sure about this 1. VGJ.Storm has already beaten them in some major qualifier last month and Optic and even Complexity might end up beating them on a given day. | ||
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550
418 Posts
NA still pretty tough tho, judging how the likes of optic stomps TFT from remaining EU so often | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:06 cecek wrote: So I guess EG doesn't wanna make TI this year, huh? At this rate EG is gonna lose in the NA qualifier against Optic and miss TI. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:02 arghyad1 wrote: I am not sure about this 1. VGJ.Storm has already beaten them in some major qualifier last month and Optic and even Complexity might end up beating them on a given day. That fluke week was just that. Though EG could have the entire team with the flu again. It's not impossible. VGJ.Storm should revert to their mean after teams actually pay attention to them. I also don't expect them to get much luck like they have during the recent qualifier period. They basically jumped a meta ship for their Super Major qualification. Doesn't mean they can't beat TFT. Both teams can throw with the best of them. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:12 maze. wrote: At this rate EG is gonna lose in the NA qualifier against Optic and miss TI. I expect we're going to get a lot more qualifier spots, in all regions, this year. 2 Qualifiers per region sounds a lot better. There's around 24 teams that can compete at TI this season. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:13 Taf the Ghost wrote: That fluke week was just that. Though EG could have the entire team with the flu again. It's not impossible. VGJ.Storm should revert to their mean after teams actually pay attention to them. I also don't expect them to get much luck like they have during the recent qualifier period. They basically jumped a meta ship for their Super Major qualification. Doesn't mean they can't beat TFT. Both teams can throw with the best of them. Ya, ofc they should make it as NA should have 2 spots minimum if none of their teams get invites, but the problem is that they were overwhelming favs today too, n literally got badly outplayed by Keen (atleast in game 3, din't see game 1), like a 2.5 tier CN team. I kind of like this casting duo of Kyle and Capitalist. The 2 seem to make listening fun, and Kyle is always there with his otherworldly explanations. I flamed Kyle in in-game spectator chat. 3:-} Can the casters see that chat? | ||
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goody153
44127 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:16 Taf the Ghost wrote: I expect we're going to get a lot more qualifier spots, in all regions, this year. 2 Qualifiers per region sounds a lot better. There's around 24 teams that can compete at TI this season. Dont think that's a good idea aside from logistical reasons that pretty much invalidates the invite system if everybody is gonna make it in the first place On the other hand 24 team sounds so exciting | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 20:05 arghyad1 wrote: Ya, ofc they should make it as NA should have 2 spots minimum if none of their teams get invites, but the problem is that they were overwhelming favs today too, n literally got badly outplayed by Keen (atleast in game 3, din't see game 1), like a 2.5 tier CN team. I kind of like this casting duo of Kyle and Capitalist. The 2 seem to make listening fun, and Kyle is always there with his otherworldly explanations. They played badly around some bad drafts. Fnatic did the same thing previously and they're back doing okay. 2 Qualifier spots per region is mostly because there's a hard T1 teams and then everyone else is a bunch of T2 teams with some getting lucky runs. That's pretty much been the season and the current Top 4 only get points from Majors means the structure has delivered more points than the team's quality. | ||
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goody153
44127 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:06 cecek wrote: So I guess EG doesn't wanna make TI this year, huh? They'll make it but its not impossible they'll get kicked out by some qualifier team | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On May 11 2018 19:16 Taf the Ghost wrote: I expect we're going to get a lot more qualifier spots, in all regions, this year. 2 Qualifiers per region sounds a lot better. There's around 24 teams that can compete at TI this season. Assuming 18 teams again and 8 invites: 2 NA 1 SA 1 EU 2 SEA 2 CIS 2 CHINA. Maybe swap EU and CIS, but EU is weak this season apart from the top teams. I just want a PPD vs EG grudge match for a TI spot. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On May 11 2018 20:11 maze. wrote: Assuming 18 teams again and 8 invites: 2 NA 1 SA 1 EU 2 SEA 2 CIS 2 CHINA. Maybe swap EU and CIS, but EU is weak this season apart from the top teams. I just want a PPD vs EG grudge match for a TI spot. Why does NA deserve 2 invites, when not 1 team has made direct invite. But EU that has 2 of the best in World. As region that rewarded not punished although watching Final tribe is kind of sad | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On May 11 2018 20:17 Sapaio wrote: Why does NA deserve 2 invites, when not 1 team has made direct invite. But EU that has 2 of the best in World. As region that rewarded not punished although watching Final tribe is kind of sad Let's be honest, EU is pretty shit nowadays. The top end is good but the average level is far from what it used to be. The split from the CIS scene was not a good thing imo, it would have been better to keep a big region with more qualifying spots. | ||
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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goody153
44127 Posts
On May 11 2018 20:17 Sapaio wrote: Why does NA deserve 2 invites, when not 1 team has made direct invite. But EU that has 2 of the best in World. As region that rewarded not punished although watching Final tribe is kind of sad If you wanted TI with the highest skill cap teams then you give EU only one slot and more to other regions who compete more(SEA). It has nothing to do with EU being the region with strongest teams but rather those who aren't invite status from them are fruitless and pretty weak compared to other regions uninvited teams which would only be a waste of slot just give it to regions who have more competitive teams | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 11 2018 20:23 nojok wrote: Let's be honest, EU is pretty shit nowadays. The top end is good but the average level is far from what it used to be. The split from the CIS scene was not a good thing imo, it would have been better to keep a big region with more qualifying spots. Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:26 spudde123 wrote: TFT will lose this game somehow VGJ.Storm made an attempt for it to happen. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:20 Kipsate wrote: Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? Alliance, Kinguin, and uh.. I guess PENTA is still around. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:20 Kipsate wrote: Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? Come on, please give Secret more respect. They won some major this year and are stil in tournament. Top Tier Secret, Liquid Mid Tier OG Lower tier Final tribe, Kinguin and mad lads. But think NA Top Tier - Mid tier. - Lower tier. VG storm. Complexity, Optic & EG Can't really see why you feel they deserve so much respect. Final tribe is about same level as them. Would have put EG higher as i like them, but they just lost to Keen. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:20 Kipsate wrote: Top (absolute fucking top tier) VP/Liquid Mid tier OG(?)/Secret(?) Lower tier/ rest of the trash cans Navi? Questionable tier: FlyTotheMoon fuck where did all of the random ass tier 2/3 EU teams like Mousesports go, am I missing some teams? People saying that EU is bad outside of the top 3-4 teams are separating EU from CIS. In the past a lot of the mid tier teams in the quals were CIS teams, and even now I think CIS has quite a few teams like Vega or FlyToMoon that fill that sort of role. EU has some teams like Kinguin and TFT that can occasionally play on a competitive level, but they don't seem to be particularly close to making it consistent. I think EU t2 scene became weaker largely because of some roster moves. For example s4 joining OG largely took Alliance out of the picture, because they didn't have him to lead anymore. Ace also joined Secret, which significantly weakened the typical Danish stack that has been there a lot of the time (and cr1t was playing in an established team already before that). Not really sure what caused the Greek squad to fall so badly. Of course the 2nd place from Boston was an anomaly, but they stopped even being competitive in EU quals at one point. Also some players like Saksa, 33, Pajkatt, Misery and so on are playing in NA. There easily could be some more decent EU teams if s4/Misery were leading their own teams there, but atm that isn't the case. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:37 Sapaio wrote: Come on, please give Secret more respect. They won some major this year and are stil in tournament. Top Tier Secret, Liquid Mid Tier OG Lower tier Final tribe, Kinguin and mad lads. But think NA Top Tier - Mid tier. - Lower tier. VG storm. Complexity, Optic & EG Can't really see why you feel they deserve so much respect. Final tribe is about same level as them. Would have put EG higher as i like them, but they just lost to Keen. I think you are putting Optic and EG down a bit too much. EG was disappointing here, but they are still 9th in points. Optic also recently won SL. People aren't comparing NA to EU as a whole, but rather the NA qual to EU qual if EG also falls out of top8. At that point NA qual has 2 teams that have DPC points, whereas EU qual only has OG. Secret and Liquid are always invited so they aren't relevant to the comparison. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:51 Kipsate wrote: I don't think that Optic and EG are actually that terrible, they are worse then Secret/OG likely but they will probably beat most other EU teams that I can think off. Optic has been roughly somewhere between the 4th to 7th best team at multiple Majors. They've probably gotten the worst bracket "luck" of the major system so far. (Heck, one major they qualified to stopped being a DPC tournament.) We also have to remember that there's always the issue of "On LAN" when it comes to the best captains in the game. Kuro, Puppey, Fly & ppd can win series almost on their own at times. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On May 11 2018 21:50 spudde123 wrote: I think you are putting Optic and EG down a bit too much. EG was disappointing here, but they are still 9th in points. Optic also recently won SL. People aren't comparing NA to EU as a whole, but rather the NA qual to EU qual if EG also falls out of top8. At that point NA qual has 2 teams that have DPC points, whereas EU qual only has OG. Secret and Liquid are always invited so they aren't relevant to the comparison. Yes you are properly right. But if you take away EG from qual i think EU deserve it as much as NA and more. So my problem is that you are rewarding a region and team for failing to qual directly to TI. It just doesn't seem like a fair way to do it. In sports I normally follow like football. Teams qualify to the CL and EL after how many points the teams have made in prior years. So for me it just seem like you give NA a reward for not being good enough to secure a direct invite. This reminds me for kids tournament where every kid that participate get a medal. Maybe i am strange feeling that way. | ||
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BlazingGlory
Bulgaria854 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Here top 8 have invite. Then every region has to have one qual. Think if the are two spots left. They should go to two regions that have made most total points during the season. For me that is the most logical approach. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 11 2018 22:20 Sapaio wrote: I want invites to be based on DCP so the regions that have made most point in current season should have most teams at TI. Think that is most fair and logical. Here top 8 have invite. Then every region has to have one qual. Think if the are two spots left. They should go to two regions that have made most total points during the season. For me that is the most logical approach. TL being good doesn't mean that TFT or Kinguin is. TL has been invited all season (and Secret has also been in the latter part of the season), which has allowed other EU teams to get to LANs, but they haven't managed to get any points. SEA and NA both have 2 teams that have DPC points outside the top8. That imo is a better metric for how "deserving" the qualifier teams are. We'll see how the teams finish, but it's quite possible that the winner of the EU qual wouldn't even get top2 in SEA or NA quals (depending on whether Fnatic, TNC or EG manage to get top8 and how you rank OG). | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Remember that teams from EU have had hard time getting to tournaments because Secret and Liquid was already there, also part of reason why some tier 2 teams from EU has disappeared. So not fair to say NA teams get more points than other EU teams. Because the spots being taken by Secret and Liquid have prevent them taking them. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 11 2018 22:33 Sapaio wrote: If you want fair system then. Let all second placed team in qual battle it out against each other in round robin tournament. Remember that teams from EU have had hard time getting to tournaments because Secret and Liquid was already there, also part of reason why some tier 2 teams from EU has disappeared. So not fair to say NA teams get more points than other EU teams. Because the spots being taken by Secret and Liquid have prevent them taking them. Secret and Liquid being invited has meant that there are more EU teams at events. They haven't really taken spots away. In the beginning of the season Secret was in the qualifiers, but after a while they started to get invites as well. We've seen teams like Penta, Planet Dog, Kinguin, and TFT get to LANs | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 11 2018 22:17 Taf the Ghost wrote: Mass control & vision has been the Meta for a bit, it's kind of annoying teams don't get that. How would you describe these lineups if not mass control & vision? One team has NS, the other has Beastmaster, TA and Luna. Both teams have heroes to stun lock people. Didn't see much of the game but feels like TFT's lineup just is somewhat worse in pretty much all aspects outside of the lategame PL factor, but I don't think the concepts are that far from that. Also in general I feel like vision is pretty much always popular. Some teams prioritize it more, but I don't think much has changed in that regard. If you don't have a strict vision hero, you may have heroes that push waves in so fast that you get information through that. Hard to play dota otherwise. | ||
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Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
Hope Secret don't burn themselves out playing | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On May 11 2018 22:39 spudde123 wrote: Secret and Liquid being invited has meant that there are more EU teams at events. They haven't really taken spots away. In the beginning of the season Secret was in the qualifiers, but after a while they started to get invites as well. We've seen teams like Penta, Planet Dog, Kinguin, and TFT get to LANs Yep, it's just they're so weak compared to international competition they often bomb out in the first or second round and people forget they were even there | ||
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