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On August 14 2016 13:36 TomatoBisque wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 13:31 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:17 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:12 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:09 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:05 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, about half the money is removed on org/taxes. Well, almost a millionaire each nonetheless. nonetheless indeed. It's massive pay day. The only thing I worry about it is that it's going to kids who have only played dota their whole lives and don't know a damn thing about money or finance. I hope Valve offers some kind of guidance to these kids. thing is if you win you're more than likely smart enough to manage or get help in managing that kind of stuff it's not like traditional sports or the lottery where anyone can get the money ? How do you figure that? They won the money by being really good at a video game. It's no different than being really good at basketball. These kids spend probably 10 hours a day playing dota... every day. Their world skills are likely non-existent for the most part. The difference is you can't play high level dota without being reasonably intelligent. Financial management isn't a difficult thing. I wanted to say something like this but couldn't find a way to word it without sounding rude I guess something like "The skills needed to succeed as a Dota player are much more conducive to good money management than those needed to succeed as a basketball/football player"
Not only is that probably a false equivalency if what you're postulating is true, but I don't really think it is either. I'm sure there are 'dumb' DotA pros(I mean, we could probably name a ton we think are not all that intelligent right now), because 'DotA intelligence' isn't general intelligence, just like you have 'basketball IQ' or 'football IQ' and whatnot.
The bigger reason pro athletes in the mainstream sports tend to fuck up money is because they grew up without it, are uneducated, and then got tons of it. Sounds a lot like what has been and will be the case with tons of pro gamers that come out of somewhere like China and SEA(in the US/EU they tend to come from decent families actually which is how they own nice computers and don't have to hold jobs and whatnot themselves).
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On August 14 2016 13:51 Elurie wrote:loooooooool that was awesome.
Lol. According to esports earnings, MMY + Burning's total earnings < any one Wings players.
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On August 14 2016 13:58 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 13:36 TomatoBisque wrote:On August 14 2016 13:31 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:17 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:12 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:09 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:05 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, about half the money is removed on org/taxes. Well, almost a millionaire each nonetheless. nonetheless indeed. It's massive pay day. The only thing I worry about it is that it's going to kids who have only played dota their whole lives and don't know a damn thing about money or finance. I hope Valve offers some kind of guidance to these kids. thing is if you win you're more than likely smart enough to manage or get help in managing that kind of stuff it's not like traditional sports or the lottery where anyone can get the money ? How do you figure that? They won the money by being really good at a video game. It's no different than being really good at basketball. These kids spend probably 10 hours a day playing dota... every day. Their world skills are likely non-existent for the most part. The difference is you can't play high level dota without being reasonably intelligent. Financial management isn't a difficult thing. I wanted to say something like this but couldn't find a way to word it without sounding rude I guess something like "The skills needed to succeed as a Dota player are much more conducive to good money management than those needed to succeed as a basketball/football player" Not only is that probably a false equivalency if what you're postulating is true, but I don't really think it is either. I'm sure there are 'dumb' DotA pros(I mean, we could probably name a ton we think are not all that intelligent right now), because 'DotA intelligence' isn't general intelligence, just like you have 'basketball IQ' or 'football IQ' and whatnot. The bigger reason pro athletes in the mainstream sports tend to fuck up money is because they grew up without it, are uneducated, and then got tons of it. Sounds a lot like what has been and will be the case with tons of pro gamers that come out of somewhere like China and SEA(in the US/EU they tend to come from decent families actually which is how they own nice computers and don't have to hold jobs and whatnot themselves).
I agree somewhat with you on mainstream sports pros. For esports though, I disagree. Doubt they will squander all the money away living the 'high life'. These pros only wanna play Dota.
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On August 14 2016 13:58 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 13:36 TomatoBisque wrote:On August 14 2016 13:31 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:17 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:12 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:09 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:05 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, about half the money is removed on org/taxes. Well, almost a millionaire each nonetheless. nonetheless indeed. It's massive pay day. The only thing I worry about it is that it's going to kids who have only played dota their whole lives and don't know a damn thing about money or finance. I hope Valve offers some kind of guidance to these kids. thing is if you win you're more than likely smart enough to manage or get help in managing that kind of stuff it's not like traditional sports or the lottery where anyone can get the money ? How do you figure that? They won the money by being really good at a video game. It's no different than being really good at basketball. These kids spend probably 10 hours a day playing dota... every day. Their world skills are likely non-existent for the most part. The difference is you can't play high level dota without being reasonably intelligent. Financial management isn't a difficult thing. I wanted to say something like this but couldn't find a way to word it without sounding rude I guess something like "The skills needed to succeed as a Dota player are much more conducive to good money management than those needed to succeed as a basketball/football player" Not only is that probably a false equivalency if what you're postulating is true, but I don't really think it is either. I'm sure there are 'dumb' DotA pros(I mean, we could probably name a ton we think are not all that intelligent right now), because 'DotA intelligence' isn't general intelligence, just like you have 'basketball IQ' or 'football IQ' and whatnot. The bigger reason pro athletes in the mainstream sports tend to fuck up money is because they grew up without it, are uneducated, and then got tons of it. Sounds a lot like what has been and will be the case with tons of pro gamers that come out of somewhere like China and SEA(in the US/EU they tend to come from decent families actually which is how they own nice computers and don't have to hold jobs and whatnot themselves).
This 100%. I the reason I hope Valve provides some guidance is because of the way professional dota is structured, where teams are incentivized to continually reshuffle rosters in perpetuity until they have a team that's worth of winning TI. It's entirely possible we never hear of wings again and this its heir last big pay day, so they need to use that money wisely.
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On August 14 2016 14:07 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 13:58 red_ wrote:On August 14 2016 13:36 TomatoBisque wrote:On August 14 2016 13:31 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:17 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:12 Kishin2 wrote:On August 14 2016 13:09 dutchfriese wrote:On August 14 2016 13:05 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, about half the money is removed on org/taxes. Well, almost a millionaire each nonetheless. nonetheless indeed. It's massive pay day. The only thing I worry about it is that it's going to kids who have only played dota their whole lives and don't know a damn thing about money or finance. I hope Valve offers some kind of guidance to these kids. thing is if you win you're more than likely smart enough to manage or get help in managing that kind of stuff it's not like traditional sports or the lottery where anyone can get the money ? How do you figure that? They won the money by being really good at a video game. It's no different than being really good at basketball. These kids spend probably 10 hours a day playing dota... every day. Their world skills are likely non-existent for the most part. The difference is you can't play high level dota without being reasonably intelligent. Financial management isn't a difficult thing. I wanted to say something like this but couldn't find a way to word it without sounding rude I guess something like "The skills needed to succeed as a Dota player are much more conducive to good money management than those needed to succeed as a basketball/football player" Not only is that probably a false equivalency if what you're postulating is true, but I don't really think it is either. I'm sure there are 'dumb' DotA pros(I mean, we could probably name a ton we think are not all that intelligent right now), because 'DotA intelligence' isn't general intelligence, just like you have 'basketball IQ' or 'football IQ' and whatnot. The bigger reason pro athletes in the mainstream sports tend to fuck up money is because they grew up without it, are uneducated, and then got tons of it. Sounds a lot like what has been and will be the case with tons of pro gamers that come out of somewhere like China and SEA(in the US/EU they tend to come from decent families actually which is how they own nice computers and don't have to hold jobs and whatnot themselves). I agree somewhat with you on mainstream sports pros. For esports though, I disagree. Doubt they will squander all the money away living the 'high life'. These pros only wanna play Dota.
i sincerely hope so. I want Wings, OG, Liquid, DC, Fnatic, MVP etc to all come back and try their hardest to win the next major.
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It's not a false equivalence because I wasn't trying to make an equivalence. An equivalence is much too strong a judgment for what I was meaning to say.
I specifically said conducive, because I think that being a professional dota player (emphasis here on professional, not random idiots like us) requires a lot of ability to assess risk/reward and plan ahead, which are useful skills if you are trying to budget money. Physical sports don't, because the strategies there aren't developed by the players, they are developed by the coaches (afaik). That doesn't mean dota players are all better at balancing a budget than, say, NFL players. But if I had to bet, I'd bet on the dota player.
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On August 14 2016 14:57 TomatoBisque wrote:
It's not a false equivalence because I wasn't trying to make an equivalence. An equivalence is much too strong a judgment for what I was meaning to say.
I specifically said conducive, because I think that being a professional dota player (emphasis here on professional, not random idiots like us) requires a lot of ability to assess risk/reward and plan ahead, which are useful skills if you are trying to budget money. Physical sports don't, because the strategies there aren't developed by the players, they are developed by the coaches (afaik). That doesn't mean dota players are all better at balancing a budget than, say, NFL players. But if I had to bet, I'd bet on the dota player.
Yeah you're actually not making any sense. The same game evaluation skills in DotA you can learn in any competitive sport.
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The game itself has nothing to do with financial planning at all.
That said, I'd think a DotA player would have better financial sense than a pro athlete with a 7-8 figure contract because 1) none of them have won constantly enough to think the cash flow will continue forever, and 2) most of them have lived their careers with below minimum-wage earnings. Some of them have actually lived in poverty conditions before winning anything meaningful.
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Lol official dota 2 instagram stopped posting pic after wings won. Salty as fuck.
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On August 14 2016 17:05 Vertical wrote:
Lol official dota 2 instagram stopped posting pic after wings won. Salty as fuck.
Or hes off pay role.
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28091 Posts
On August 14 2016 17:06 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 17:05 Vertical wrote:
Lol official dota 2 instagram stopped posting pic after wings won. Salty as fuck. Or hes off pay role.
Yea I'm sure he's getting drunk at the after party, lol.
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WP Wings
About that money... Yea it's not without its problems. To give such amounts of €, to such young players, in such a young industry (and so without many organizations to keep things in check) is gonna have some downsides.
E.g. people from the team taking too large a cut, irresponsible behavior on the part of the players, their schooling or career outside of gaming completely sidelined... it's like those lottery winners whose lives go off the rails--except here we're dealing w/ kids not grownups.
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How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess?
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28091 Posts
On August 14 2016 17:53 Emnjay808 wrote:
How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess?
Seen a lot of people say around 40-50%. I have no idea, but that's just what I've seen so take it with a grain of salt 
What I do know is that they are gonna get mega fucked, even if it's only 25-30%. That's a lot of lost money, rofl.
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On August 14 2016 18:01 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 17:53 Emnjay808 wrote:
How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess? Seen a lot of people say around 40-50%. I have no idea, but that's just what I've seen so take it with a grain of salt What I do know is that they are gonna get mega fucked, even if it's only 25-30%. That's a lot of lost money, rofl.
AFAIK, it's tax-free in China, for any 'international sport event'. However, in 2014, NewBee payed 30% to IRS (US, of course. LoL). I guess it will be the same this year.
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28091 Posts
On August 14 2016 18:11 bearhug wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 18:01 TheEmulator wrote:On August 14 2016 17:53 Emnjay808 wrote:
How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess? Seen a lot of people say around 40-50%. I have no idea, but that's just what I've seen so take it with a grain of salt What I do know is that they are gonna get mega fucked, even if it's only 25-30%. That's a lot of lost money, rofl. AFAIK, it's tax-free in China, for any 'international sport event'. However, in 2014, NewBee payed 30% to IRS (US, of course. LoL). I guess it will be the same this year.
Yea I meant to say it would be the US taxing them. Forgot to though
30% is still really bad. Fucking government!
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On August 14 2016 17:53 Emnjay808 wrote:
How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess?
zero, according to the law.
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EG was clearly just passing on the torch to the next TI champions.
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On August 14 2016 18:12 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 18:11 bearhug wrote:On August 14 2016 18:01 TheEmulator wrote:On August 14 2016 17:53 Emnjay808 wrote:
How much is China gonna tax them for that 9 million dollar pay out? Anyone with an educated guess? Seen a lot of people say around 40-50%. I have no idea, but that's just what I've seen so take it with a grain of salt What I do know is that they are gonna get mega fucked, even if it's only 25-30%. That's a lot of lost money, rofl. AFAIK, it's tax-free in China, for any 'international sport event'. However, in 2014, NewBee payed 30% to IRS (US, of course. LoL). I guess it will be the same this year. Yea I meant to say it would be the US taxing them. Forgot to though 30% is still really bad. Fucking government!
You don't see any players shouting to move TI. We're talking actual millionaires nowadays, it's Valve income that they write off as a business expense and the players pay it instead. It would be much higher if it was in Germany or something, and many players live in countries where $100,000US will go a very long way. I think out of all the previous winners Alliance walked out the least affluent, due to the cost of living in Sweden and the smaller prize pool. Somebody (possibly Nahaz) noticed that the cheap costs of living in Ukraine meant Navi walked out with more "buying power" in 2nd than Alliance in 1st.
Every country levies taxes on income earned within the borders of that country. Americans are a bit uniquely screwed in that our country taxes us even for work within other countries, so when EG wins a tournament in China they pay taxes to the US and to China.
Americans tax their wealthiest people less than many other first world nations (we have the lower quality of life indicators to show for it!), so European players would rather pay US taxes than European taxes, and US players would prefer to pay US taxes than European taxes and US taxes. TI in the US suits everyone as well as can be.
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EPT
