On May 10 2016 05:01 Spicy_Curry wrote: Who is going to assert pressure? The piss poor supporting cast or Qojqva? We know Qojqva wont do it. Most of the time the other members of his team are equal networth to the cores on the opposing team nullifying the advantage.
Your post seems to go in all directions, and nowhere.
1) No one is asseting pressure. 2) His other team mates has equal networth of opposing teams cores. 3) Nullifying advantage.
Considering that Qojqva has played a lot of Invoker, Tinker, batrider, it seems to suggest that he plays heroes that does assert pressure. Considering the new team has a winrate of 64% across 52 games, it seems to suggest they are quite successful in general.
On May 10 2016 04:18 TanGeng wrote: I'm with sn0_man here. I believe dota is moving away from Qojqva's farm heavy style that exerts no map influence. A lot of time it's like playing 4v5(+1) for half of the dota game (minutes 10-30). Just think if you had this really farm heavy carry that denied farm to the rest of your team.
If any team just amps up the map control pressure and doesn't throw then game is hard.
The game has been moving into aggessive heavy team play for quite a while. It is all about either participating or splitting the map up. Qojqva either participates or splits up the map.
Qojqva has a lot of participation and often ends with a lot of kills from early to mid, so not sure about the farm heavy thing.
I don't know what you are watching but what I've seen is Qojqva teams do not exert the extent of map control that their relative strength to opposing team would suggest.
That's leaving power projection on the table. There are certain heros where he is decent on pressuring the enemy team, but there are too many where he's in a overly safe position.
Well, considering DiG has used a lot of offensive warding to gain map awareness and control, while being aggressive in the qualifier, it seems to suggest that they are indeed trying to have map control.
Not sure if you are watching at all.
I don't see it. Warding and knowledge can be used to farm efficiently or deny farm.
Using it to walk up to the enemy and killing them constantly is different finding a safer place to farm.
Map control can be applied in various ways. That is the nature of map control is you are controlling the map, to do what you want, either being aggressive, or getting essential items, without being slaughtered for it, thus nullifying the opposition in different ways, either by letting them run around needlessly without gaining anything, or suffocating them. They didn't succeed too well against Newbee and later CoL.
Needless to say, if you are warding offensively, you are in enemy territory, thus trying to be aggressive.
Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
?
Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead.
When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
?
Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead, so they can dominate off that lead, making the sacrifice(if it is that) worth it.
When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries.
Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players.
Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm.
On May 10 2016 03:16 ForTehDarkseid wrote: cubmack
j/k, prolonged death animation.
You seem to dislike ND and qojqva in particular. Any reason?
Can't cheer for synderen after all.
Why not? He seems like an alright guy.
Yeah, he is great as a person, honestly. Always enjoyed his casting
but his pro player career ended with mtw. He tilts easily as a captain and doesn't show much skills nowadays.
After coming back from a long break, he helped lead his team to two qualifications, Dreamleague and Epicenter, and they nearly qualified for the Manilla Major, beating several major teams such as Vega in the process.
Does he have room for improvement? Of course he does, so does the whole team. But to say he's bad is ludicrous.
On May 10 2016 06:43 nojok wrote: Is he good? Maybe. Very good? No. I can't think of any team invited to the major who would have him rather than their current mid.
Most invited team are probably happy with their players, until they reshuffle, where they show they are no longer happy with some of their players.
Reality is not confined by your imagination, though.
I never understood people saying qojqva soaks up to much farm. He is a carry/ Mid player, its his fucking Job in the team. Other caries do the same, its not like he is always way ahead in networth. I mean he farms creeps and when there are teamfights he is there. Depends on the hero and time in the game of course. But he does his Job. When he played slardar, he participated in almost every fight, when he plays shadow fiend he farms more. Thats the Nature of the hero, so i really dont get the complaints. And from what i saw in most diggity games, his late game decision making is good enough. Well i guess there are always haters. In my opinion sumail is overrated as fuck too.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
?
Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead, so they can dominate off that lead, making the sacrifice(if it is that) worth it.
When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries.
Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players.
Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm.
That is pretty impactful and participating for a Tinker.
So given Diggity is scoring kills, Qojqva is highly involved. But this doesn't actually tell me whether or not he's pulling his weight in "carrying the tempo" and asserting map control. Dota statistics aren't even at the level of basketball in terms of context based statistical evaluation. And tinker game are generally outliers because of how distinct that strategy is.
I'm watching his Invoker games. Are you seeing his farming patterns and tower pushing positioning? I just don't see the positioning so aggressive as to be asserting his team's strength rather than simply using it to farm.
On May 10 2016 06:51 hunter_x wrote: I never understood people saying qojqva soaks up to much farm. He is a carry/ Mid player, its his fucking Job in the team. Other caries do the same, its not like he is always way ahead in networth. I mean he farms creeps and when there are teamfights he is there. Depends on the hero and time in the game of course. But he does his Job. When he played slardar, he participated in almost every fight, when he plays shadow fiend he farms more. Thats the Nature of the hero, so i really dont get the complaints. And from what i saw in most diggity games, his late game decision making is good enough. Well i guess there are always haters. In my opinion sumail is overrated as fuck too.
I don't think they actually know what they are talking about.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
?
Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead, so they can dominate off that lead, making the sacrifice(if it is that) worth it.
When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries.
Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players.
Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm.
That is pretty impactful and participating for a Tinker.
So given Diggity is scoring kills, Qojqva is highly involved. But this doesn't actually tell me whether or not he's pulling his weight in "carrying the tempo" and asserting map control. Dota statistics aren't even at the level of basketball in terms of context based statistical evaluation. And tinker game are generally outliers because of how distinct that strategy is.
I'm watching his Invoker games. Are you seeing his farming patterns and tower pushing positioning? I just don't see the positioning so aggressive as to be asserting his team's strength rather than simply using it to farm.
Actually it does show he is pulling his weight in carrying the tempo, when he has scored kills. What would it otherwise be? Usually Tinker is used for split pushing, farming, and he sits with 9/2/7, while having a Bloodstone(meaning he intend to participate), Eth blade, and a lvl 5 Dagon to finish off players with burst. If you watched the game, you would know that he did pull his weight.
On May 10 2016 06:51 hunter_x wrote: I never understood people saying qojqva soaks up to much farm. He is a carry/ Mid player, its his fucking Job in the team. Other caries do the same, its not like he is always way ahead in networth. I mean he farms creeps and when there are teamfights he is there. Depends on the hero and time in the game of course. But he does his Job. When he played slardar, he participated in almost every fight, when he plays shadow fiend he farms more. Thats the Nature of the hero, so i really dont get the complaints. And from what i saw in most diggity games, his late game decision making is good enough. Well i guess there are always haters. In my opinion sumail is overrated as fuck too.
Again, his favourite BKB/Linkens/Euls (and I think Butterfly) Shadow Fiend build where he's shit scared of dying, and ends up getting caught out of position and dying anyway.
Those Slark games on TT where he'd play passively for 30 minutes.
All those games where he'd double feed a minute after getting Aegis.
Half the problem on Team Tinker was that Qojqva would have the #1 farm priority, and wouldn't do anything with his gold lead until the enemy team was in a comfortable position to just kill him.
On May 10 2016 07:23 Dracolich70 wrote: TTs stats seems to indicate a somewhat successful team, despite what you try to indicate.
You could apply the same things to EE, where it seems to be more suitable.
And I quote:
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
And despite all the issues that Cloud9 EE had, he also had a DotA mind that innovated quite a few things.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
And despite all the issues that Cloud9 EE had, he also had a DotA mind that innovated quite a few things.
Not sure why you try to look past that TT were relatively successful, which doesn't seem to go hand in hand with what you are saying about him, and team.. So why are you trying to reiterate a quote that does nothing?
Again, what you are saying concerning Qojqva seems to be more suitable on EE. Not that it helped he got a better captain in PPY.
You are actually just nuts. You are in the same post saying that TT was "relatively sucessful" and comparing to a player on a team that won the last major. WTF. If you are going off results there is not much argument at all that qojqva has ever been on a team that could possible be described as better than mediocre. I mean people like sno (not to put words in his mouth) say qojqva is "bad" and basically mean "not good enough to be the mid player on a team to compete for a major/TI". Obviously he is incredibly good compared to the total pool of people who play dota, but that is not the standard of comparison by which you judge a pro player.
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up.
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily.
If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that.
But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically.
Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.
?
Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead, so they can dominate off that lead, making the sacrifice(if it is that) worth it.
When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries.
Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players.
Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm.
That is pretty impactful and participating for a Tinker.
So given Diggity is scoring kills, Qojqva is highly involved. But this doesn't actually tell me whether or not he's pulling his weight in "carrying the tempo" and asserting map control. Dota statistics aren't even at the level of basketball in terms of context based statistical evaluation. And tinker game are generally outliers because of how distinct that strategy is.
I'm watching his Invoker games. Are you seeing his farming patterns and tower pushing positioning? I just don't see the positioning so aggressive as to be asserting his team's strength rather than simply using it to farm.
Actually it does show he is pulling his weight in carrying the tempo, when he has scored kills. What would it otherwise be? Usually Tinker is used for split pushing, farming, and he sits with 9/2/7, while having a Bloodstone(meaning he intend to participate), Eth blade, and a lvl 5 Dagon to finish off players with burst. If you watched the game, you would know that he did pull his weight.
Qojqva literally shuffled between jungle and ancient camps between 10-20 when NewBee took the game away from his team and he arrive late and died in the only excursion out of his jungle during that time.
I don't really want to waste any more time arguing with you if you don't want to understand where I'm coming from.
Qojqva is like QO or rtz at mid. They are the true carry of the team. The difference is that when qo or rtz gets farmed, they know how to win games with it. Qojqva however seems to soak up so much farm but not utilising it effectively.
EPT
