EPT
EPICENTER - Wild Card!
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/EPICENTER
Casters, Hosts & Stream
RedEye | Tobiwan | Sheever | Durka | Maelk |
Capitalist | | ODPixel | Blitz | Godz | Purge | Weppas
Teams
![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/col.png)
![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/newbee.png)
![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/no_diggity.png)
![[image loading]](/staff/Julmust/lr_threads/team_logos/234x90/fnatic.png)
Results!
[EPICENTER] Wild Card
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/EPICENTER RedEye | Tobiwan | Sheever | Durka | Maelk | Capitalist | | ODPixel | Blitz | Godz | Purge | Weppas | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
Poll: Wild Card Winners? Fnatic & NewBee (22) NewBee & NoDiggity (19) NewBee & Complexity (12) Complexity & Fnatic (2) Complexity & NoDiggity (1) NoDiggity & Fnatic (1) 57 total votes Your vote: Wild Card Winners? (Vote): NewBee & NoDiggity | ||
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
On topic, praying for No Diggity and Complexity to make it  | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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uthgard
2098 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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simmeh
Canada2511 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:03 simmeh wrote: damn, what is this? starting exactly on time? I thought the same thing! Really great! So GO synderen!!!! // edit: an Elder Titan ban!? o.O | ||
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:07 nayumi wrote: err... so is there another stream for coL game? http://www.liquiddota.com/stream/epicenter_en2 Purge & ODPixel casting right now. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
oops, switched up the teams It's EARLY alright? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Daray
6006 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:11 shouldbeworking wrote: Fucken hilarious wildcard. The best of China and Sea vs some ok teams from the other region. That's what happens when you invite VP to main event. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Nedereden
777 Posts
Pumped for this series. | ||
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Daray
6006 Posts
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uthgard
2098 Posts
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TheEmulator
28084 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:18 Nedereden wrote: So if Complexity can put up a good showing here its a huge statement fir them. This game is a really good barometer to how strong Newbee REALLY is. Pumped for this series. i honestly prefer if newbee faced mvp/eg/secret to see how good they are .. or maybe some of the teams on hot form too like Empire edit: nevermind i'm dumb | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
this is why hes not on a good team | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:18 Nedereden wrote: So if Complexity can put up a good showing here its a huge statement fir them. This game is a really good barometer to how strong Newbee REALLY is. Pumped for this series. welp, doesnt look so good. | ||
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TheEmulator
28084 Posts
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:43 goody153 wrote: is china great again yet ? so far they are better than america. is america great again? | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:52 DucK- wrote: Who drafted for fnatic? Mushi or 343? 343. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:49 hfglgg wrote: so far they are better than america. is america great again? well i think america is still better atm with eg and secret still not dumpstered by newbee but one step at a time towards greatness for china | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:53 goody153 wrote: well i think america is still better atm with eg and secret still not dumpstered by newbee but one step at a time towards greatness for china why would East need to prove anything ? EG and Secret have been LEL-level-dumped in the last 2-3month it is EG and Secret that need to prove themself this time around | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:55 Vertical wrote: why would East need to prove anything ? EG and Secret have been LEL-level-dumped in the last 2-3month it is EG and Secret that need to prove themself this time around I was mostly humoring about america and china being great. I know eg and secret has to prove their shit especially secret | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
I remember the day Blink do not have the CD after receive damage getting a kill is such a pain in the ass those days | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:43 goody153 wrote: is china great again yet ? Newbee is good, again. VG.R should be decent. I don't have much trust in Wings, even when they were winning ESL One Manila. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:58 Vertical wrote: just realized that all 5 fnatic player bought blink dagger incoming nerf ? I remember the day Blink do not have the CD after receive damage the day blinks do not have cd after damage., pubs will start to built that item as a first item | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:58 Taf the Ghost wrote: Newbee is good, again. VG.R should be decent. I don't have much trust in Wings, even when they were winning ESL One Manila. same feeling on wings I think they're just a one season sensation just like OG | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 16:58 Taf the Ghost wrote: Newbee is good, again. VG.R should be decent. I don't have much trust in Wings, even when they were winning ESL One Manila. As how much i enjoyed watching Wings at ESL (especially the last game lul what was that) .. Their win felt like a fluke you would even their players make alot of individual incompetence that you wouldn't see from other teams (that they dumpstered lol) my friend even told multiple times watching ESL that he swore it looks like whoever wings faced that time became dumb at playing (of course wings just outplayed them or the teams failed to play around wings) On May 09 2016 16:59 Kamisamanachi wrote: the day blinks do not have cd after damage., pubs will start to built that item as a first item aka old blink will be back 10/10 would buy every hero blink even if it's AA who almost has no use of blink | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
this punctuality is almost sureal | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:04 shouldbeworking wrote: Can't wait for a true Dota2 Dynasty or grand slam. Can such a thing even exist? 3 TIs in a row or all majors plus TI. Won't happen outside of a Korean team that gets players from outside of Korea. | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:06 spudde123 wrote: Incredible, I show up 1 hour after starting time and the first games have actually been played. First event in dota history to start on time? Seriously! How is noone talking about this more... | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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V1ctor
Moldova1645 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:09 hfglgg wrote: recent esl events used to be on time as well. apparently gremlins dont exist. They all had about 30 minutes delay, which is still good. Epicenter had literally no delay. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:02 goody153 wrote: As how much i enjoyed watching Wings at ESL (especially the last game lul what was that) .. Their win felt like a fluke you would even their players make alot of individual incompetence that you wouldn't see from other teams (that they dumpstered lol) my friend even told multiple times watching ESL that he swore it looks like whoever wings faced that time became dumb at playing (of course wings just outplayed them or the teams failed to play around wings) Wings pretty much had every break go their way at ESL Manila. They didn't play too badly in Games 2 & 3 each series (but they got seriously dumpstered in every game 1 they played), but they adjusted just enough and had just enough RNG go their way. Wings really should have lost to Complexity (twice) and Fnatic. We can very much say that "Wings did enough to win". But I also feel their Major experience is going to be rather short. | ||
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Gear 3rd
1244 Posts
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:11 V1ctor wrote: They all had about 30 minutes delay, which is still good. Epicenter had literally no delay. ok i havent seen manila, but frankfurt and ny had none if i remember correctly. also col getting kunka'ed. no one plays against x mark the spot anymore and it shows. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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an00bis
156 Posts
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Gear 3rd
1244 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:29 Azarkon wrote: Newbee might lose to hard work. you mean arrogance hardwork lol | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
well i haven't seen that before | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:33 Salazarz wrote: Col has some cute moves and punish NB for overextensions fairly well, but even in fights they lose NB are just on a completely different level in terms of mechanics and coordination. Don't see Col winning even one game nvm the series unless Newbee find a way into some spectacular throws. The difference in skill is evident in fights where col are losing. They just engage with the worst manner possible. It's not even newbee having a great initiation, but how col are going in 1 by 1. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:34 DucK- wrote: Col can lose. It's all on how they choose to fight, because so far it has been them taking the initiatives and not newbee. Just about the only chance for them is NB stumbling into a huge vacuum and getting cleaved down in 3 swings from Sven. | ||
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Daray
6006 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
Any clean fight when DS/Invoker/Sven are not controlled, Col will take the fight easily. So it's all about how they engage. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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eonrulz
United Kingdom225 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:47 hfglgg wrote: and suddenly newbee gets raxed. that's ok they have really good waveclear and they got 3 heroes + aegis out of that | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
Right now it's so easy for Diggity. WK doesn't hit hard enough yet, Alch doesn't hit hard at all. Both can just be ignored. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:48 Azarkon wrote: I think the last time Newbee was this close against a Chinese team was against Tongfu. i wouldn't call this close | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
It is when you consider Newbee's games against other Chinese teams. And this is not the best Western team, obviously. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:30 Danzo wrote: Why lion never banned? IT has to be the most versatile support in the game right now. I don't know why either. Though the Win rate isn't huge on it. Though among the top teams, I think it's probably got a 75% win rate. It just puts so much utility on a lvl 6 support. | ||
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LennX
4530 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:52 Azarkon wrote: It is when you consider Newbee's games against other Chinese teams. And this is not the best Western team, obviously. Ah "best" western teams like the tournaments where VG.R and wings won | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:55 shouldbeworking wrote: What a shitty draft and bad play by Fnatic. They had no teamfight and two cores that could largely be ignored for the first half of the game. The 2 cores could be ignored for the entire game. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:52 Azarkon wrote: It is when you consider Newbee's games against other Chinese teams. And this is not the best Western team, obviously. Just saying: coL took exact same amount of maps from Wings as le best Western Team. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:55 goody153 wrote: Ah "best" western teams like the tournaments where VG.R and wings won On May 09 2016 17:56 lolfail9001 wrote: Just saying: coL took exact same amount of maps from Wings as le best Western Team. Western teams always improve their skill around a huge tournament. Just saying. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:57 Azarkon wrote: Western teams always improve their skill around a huge tournament. Just saying. Yeah, like they did at TI2 and TI4, amirite? | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:57 Azarkon wrote: Western teams always improve their skill around a huge tournament. Just saying. like ti4 or ti5 they are the definition of the biggest tournamentseg doesn't count as the entire west you know | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:55 DucK- wrote: The 2 cores could be ignored for the entire game. NotLikeThis lasso into plink plink plink | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
#balance | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:58 lolfail9001 wrote: Yeah, like they did at TI2 and TI4, amirite? They did, in fact. But the Chinese worked harder in 2012, and 2014 was very close when you look at the games lost on each side, and the West was behind before the international in 2014, as shown by the results of every team except for PPD's. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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eonrulz
United Kingdom225 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:58 Taf the Ghost wrote: Complexity has better late-game if they can keep the team-fighting even. Swindlezz being stacked is the key for Complexity going late. I don't think so. DK is such a beast when fully loaded, and Sven kind of falls off as his bkb gets shorter. NB's main problem is Doom's irrelevance right now. | ||
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Tuco
China200 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:01 hfglgg wrote: man i cant tell if newbee just teamfights so good or col teamfights terribly, but they are losing every engagement that newbee isnt immediately pulling out from. Both. Newbee are splitting up well, Col jumping in poorly. But when Col engages well, they will win the fight regardless of how newbee engages. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:01 Azarkon wrote: They did, in fact. But the Chinese worked harder in 2012, and 2014 was very close when you look at the games lost on each side, and the West was behind before the international in 2014, as shown by the results of every team except for PPD's. Well, if you look at recent results West is behind, the only recent exception being Shanghai. | ||
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Lancehead
Canada123 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:03 DucK- wrote: Both. Newbee are splitting up well, Col jumping in poorly. But when Col engages well, they will win the fight regardless of how newbee engages. Their 'good' engages are fully dependant on Newbee letting them land a vac+storm hammer on more than 1-2 people, though. As long as NB keep splitting well and keeping Sven / DS separated, Col just has no chance. Invoker had like no influence on the game, too. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:01 hfglgg wrote: man i cant tell if newbee just teamfights so good or col teamfights terribly, but they are losing every engagement that newbee isnt immediately pulling out from. NB's teamfight lineup is twice as strong on even networth. Col can only rely on vacuum combo initiation | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:04 Salazarz wrote: Their 'good' engages are fully dependant on Newbee letting them land a vac+storm hammer on more than 1-2 people, though. As long as NB keep splitting well and keeping Sven / DS separated, Col just has no chance. Invoker had like no influence on the game, too. Invoker's missing every spell XD | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:03 TRAP[yoo] wrote: going hg was difficult for nb but most of the fights outside of cols base were rather onesided Icewall is pretty good against 4 melees. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:58 goody153 wrote: But improving their skill for a tournament, doesn't mean you will win it, now does it?like ti4 or ti5 they are the definition of the biggest tournamentseg doesn't count as the entire west you know Of course it is a notion taken with a grain of salt, as the CIS teams mostly failed outside Na'vi, and peaked more in the multiple tournaments that EU had at those times. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
ya. invoker and ds are nasty on hg | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:04 lolfail9001 wrote: That is only if you only pick first place and ignore secondary ones, which goody just used with EG, as illegitimate..Well, if you look at recent results West is behind, the only recent exception being Shanghai. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:04 lolfail9001 wrote: Well, if you look at recent results West is behind, the only recent exception being Shanghai. Which is why this tournament will decide whether the West is back enough to take Manila. Also, while the West lost all three of the recent tournaments, the top Chinese teams did, also. | ||
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Tuco
China200 Posts
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 17:24 Azarkon wrote: Hard work giving a hard time to Newbee. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
really nice resilience by NB to win late game with a dk/jug lineup which was designed for early push and was down ~5k in the midgame, which im sure they didnt expect | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:06 Azarkon wrote: Yes, which is why this tournament will decide whether the West is back enough to take Manila. Pretty sure it will be (drumroll) Manila that will decide whether the West is back enough to take it. Hak hak hak. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
They did. It was a difficult game than any Newbee play in the last month, except against Tongfu. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:07 Kraznaya wrote: classic azarkon LR where the entire discussion is on west vs china instead of the game really nice resilience by NB to win late game with a dk/jug lineup which was designed for early push and was down ~5k in the midgame, which im sure they didnt expect Leave azarkon alone | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:06 Dracolich70 wrote: That is only if you only pick first place and ignore secondary ones, which goody just used with EG, as illegitimate.. I am using Azarkon's own measures against him, shhh. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:07 Kraznaya wrote: classic azarkon LR where the entire discussion is on west vs china instead of the game really nice resilience by NB to win late game with a dk/jug lineup which was designed for early push and was down ~5k in the midgame, which im sure they didnt expect It wasn't an early push lineup, honestly. Their lineup would remain solid throughout the entire game which is why they didn't go very heavy on pushing early. You could see DK was basically unkillable past 30 minutes even with Sven wailing on him uninterrupted, and they had enough point disable while only really having one person to worry about (as long as invoker gets doomed as he should). | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:07 lolfail9001 wrote: So arguments on both sides are a melting pot, where none of you have a standard to argue against the other, but rather against your own arguments. Brilliant.I am using Azarkon's own measures against him, shhh. | ||
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an00bis
156 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:09 Salazarz wrote: It wasn't an early push lineup, honestly. Their lineup would remain solid throughout the entire game which is why they didn't go very heavy on pushing early. You could see DK was basically unkillable past 30 minutes even with Sven wailing on him uninterrupted, and they had enough point disable while only really having one person to worry about (as long as invoker gets doomed as he should). Yea their ease of execution was so much higher. If either Invoker or DS gets controlled, Col had no chance at all. Col needed more Force/Lotus/Linkens XD | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
I wasn't around for the "When did EG throw last?" days, but it must have been like that, I assume? | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
Yeah guys azarkon is just doing his thing. Speaking of the game i actually felt like newbee had the better lineup overall. If coL got initiationed they were screwed as fuck but when it is newbee they had a chance to retaliate. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:07 Salazarz wrote: Pretty sure it will be (drumroll) Manila that will decide whether the West is back enough to take it. Hak hak hak. There's no value to using the tournament's results to decide the tournament's results. Were Newbee to come in here and win the entire tournament, then China is the favorite for Manila, obviously. But in case they lose to anyone other than Secret, the West will win. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:11 juff wrote: why does diggity value venomancer so highly? is synderen trying to get the maelk award? Press V (or R...) and win fights. If not prepared adequately against, a switch to core Veno can win the game alone. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:12 Vertical wrote: at least CoL put Newbee to the edge of their seat Game 2 looked back and forth at least. Not some of newbee memepush with huge advantage | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:12 Vertical wrote: at least CoL put Newbee to the edge of their seat They looked a hell of a lot better than Ehome did. That finals was such a beatdown. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:17 babysimba wrote: Newbee wasn't on the edge. It's impossible to fail the early game and mid game with Col's sort of lineup, giving the illusion they did well. It's not though it's bad late game. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
Or they lose. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:19 lolfail9001 wrote: Either Fnatic wins in 10 minutes. Or they lose. I'm still not used to Fnatic being past the "Thanks for the Flight" days. Instinct says, "this will go badly." | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:16 Taf the Ghost wrote: They looked a hell of a lot better than Ehome did. That finals was such a beatdown. but techies man | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
Okay, the Techies game was awesome. But Ehome was so unpracticed with it, you can argue they threw the game, lol. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:21 Azarkon wrote: As much as we talk about China and the West, it's Southeast Asia that is having it difficult. Fnatic looks as though they won't make it past these teams, and they were an invite and was to show that Southeast Asia is on the rise. it's ok MVP did well | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:21 Azarkon wrote: As much as we talk about China and the West, it's Southeast Asia that is having it difficult. Fnatic looks as though they won't make it past these teams, and they were an invite and was to show that Southeast Asia is on the rise. you mean as much as YOU talk about China and the West | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:21 Azarkon wrote: As much as we talk about China and the West, it's Southeast Asia that is having it difficult. Fnatic looks as though they won't make it past these teams, and they were an invite and was to show that Southeast Asia is on the rise. I think Fnatic has like only barely just started playing with Mushi again though? Not sure. I figure that would probably impact team stability at least a bit right now. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
#ChinaRISING | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
#they can't even be arsed to free kill Synderen anymore | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:40 Azarkon wrote: Fnatic didn't win yet, so they lost. Fnatic are more eastern than DiG. They don't stand a chance. | ||
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uthgard
2098 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:36 GumBa wrote: If newbee win this event without dropping a map is the west doomed? #ChinaRISING it's east turn to win TI remember | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:42 GumBa wrote: That was a pretty sick chrono he held it for so long too before using it, awesome play there | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:11 Taf the Ghost wrote: You know, with Swindlezz's teams, it's always that "if". They finally look like they're getting it together, then they do something stupid. I wasn't around for the "When did EG throw last?" days, but it must have been like that, I assume? coL isn't that bad. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:44 GumBa wrote: So seeing as the "win major quali get picked up by mouz lose in major get dropped by mouz" dream is dead, do you think getting into epi main event could get mouz's interest lr would that be a different situation and team. Not even TI. Mouz can't be bothered. Kek Kek Kek | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Inb4 ti gets placed on a random asian holiday. #ChinaInFlames#westisbest#AzarkonRising | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
I did see that version of EG (I only started at TI3), so it's good to know it isn't that bad. But Complexity really makes it hard to cheer for them. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:46 GumBa wrote: Inb4 ti gets placed on a random asian holiday. #ChinaInFlames#westisbest#AzarkonRising #ggchina #EndOfAnEra | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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eonrulz
United Kingdom225 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
do you think the east/west alternating victories is intended by patches? sort of like legend of the fall being reinforced by making maps more favourable to protoss during that season | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
I am angry. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:50 juff wrote: do you think the east/west alternating victories is intended by patches? sort of like legend of the fall being reinforced by making maps more favourable to protoss during that season It's more who A-God predicts. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:50 juff wrote: do you think the east/west alternating victories is intended by patches? sort of like legend of the fall being reinforced by making maps more favourable to protoss during that season It's decided by which region stops trying that year. | ||
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
2.kick net get mushi back 3.???? 4.Lose | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
A-Dog | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
A-God always pedicts #westisrising Like asking if sun rises. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:50 juff wrote: do you think the east/west alternating victories is intended by patches? sort of like legend of the fall being reinforced by making maps more favourable to protoss during that season it's the one with the strongest power of friendship that will prevail | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:56 TanGeng wrote: A-God always pedicts #westisrising Like asking if sun rises. But what if he predicts the west #savingstrats for that ti. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:56 goody153 wrote: it's the one with the strongest power of friendship that will prevail Jacky will never win ti then. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:53 GumBa wrote: 1.Get major invite 2.kick net get mushi back 3.???? 4.Lose typical fnatic | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
Well, there is no way he will win this ti. Remember the TI rule? Nobody wins twice. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:59 lolfail9001 wrote: Well, there is no way he will win this ti. Remember the TI rule? Nobody wins twice. He'd have to win it once for that rule to apply though. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
ok | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:59 lolfail9001 wrote: Well, there is no way he will win this ti. Remember the TI rule? Nobody wins twice. I have a feeling someone wins it twice this year. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:00 DucK- wrote: FEELS GOOD THAT MUSHI IS LOSING Fnatic are caught in a net called loss and can't get out this game. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:00 GumBa wrote: He'd have to win it once for that rule to apply though. Point being that there are TI winners playing in Secret | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:01 TanGeng wrote: I have a feeling someone wins it twice this year. newbee i'm sure | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:01 TanGeng wrote: I have a feeling someone wins it twice this year. Are we talking teams or players? back to game: Khezu still without a death! | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:01 goody153 wrote: i think mushi should be building for abyssal .. i feel like they really need more options to catch tinker ok This isn't flame to EE btw before you get triggered. He is just the loner type anime guy who wants to do it on his own strength and won't rely on nakama. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:01 TanGeng wrote: I have a feeling someone wins it twice this year. Newbee will win it and everyone will forget about them again like nothing happened | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:02 spudde123 wrote: Point being that there are TI winners playing in Secret Oh he meant the entire team in that. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:53 GumBa wrote: 1.Get major invite 2.kick net get mushi back 3.???? 4.Lose the curse of kicking a winning team | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:01 TanGeng wrote: I have a feeling someone wins it twice this year. We might have TI winners on about 1/3rd of the teams this year, so there's a better chance. Each year, obviously, there's more of a chance. Though Alex Garfield does have two. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
Xtinct, never forget | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:03 DucK- wrote: Synderen is actually such a mediocre player thats why you put him on a hero that presses one button to win fights XD 7.7k+ MMR =! mediocre. Revise your antibias maybe? | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:09 GumBa wrote: Maybe it will feature British eSports people for once.MVP win TI and the roof getd blown off and choppers come down and banners get dropped. Kespa has come and we should all welcome our overlords and the entire arena has to shout Hail Kespa. Kespa teams go into dota and crush all and kill the 2nd game. Valve steps in and creates a welfare league for white people. I believe Blizzard/Activision killed SC. DotA is not big in Korea, and probably never will be. So MVP still depend on other regions to proceed with progressing. | ||
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
wait nevermind jsut checked they get seeded into group stages lol On May 09 2016 19:02 GumBa wrote: This isn't flame to EE btw before you get triggered. He is just the loner type anime guy who wants to do it on his own strength and won't rely on nakama. even if this was intended to be a flame that's ok i'm not easily triggered anymore i believe lol | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:14 goody153 wrote: so if i'm correct the two who will get seeded here shall be qualified for the playoffs ? wait nevermind jsut checked they get seeded into group stages lol even if this was intended to be a flame that's ok i'm not easily triggered anymore i believe lol I wasn't sure if your one of the EE followers that are chill with some friendly ribbing or try to out a jutsu on me in anger is all. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:09 GumBa wrote: MVP win TI and the roof getd blown off and choppers come down and banners get dropped. Kespa has come and we should all welcome our overlords and the entire arena has to shout Hail Kespa. Kespa teams go into dota and crush all and kill the 2nd game. Valve steps in and creates a welfare league for white people. and everybody will bow for the korean overlords the one true deserving overlords ! On May 09 2016 19:16 GumBa wrote: I wasn't sure if your one of the EE followers that are chill with some friendly ribbing or try to out a jutsu on me in anger is all. depends on my mood admittedly i get really riled up sometimes rofl | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:13 Dracolich70 wrote: Maybe it will feature British eSports people for once. I believe Blizzard/Activision killed SC. DotA is not big in Korea, and probably never will be. So MVP still depend on other regions to proceed with progressing. Koreans killed sc2. Foreigners worked incredibly hard and got treated unfairly constantly. They are finally getting the money they deserve but I almost feel like the sanctions against korea aren't harsh enough. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:03 DucK- wrote: SyndereN is the common denominator of 2 qualification wins to TI in the toughest region.Synderen is actually such a mediocre player thats why you put him on a hero that presses one button to win fights XD | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:17 goody153 wrote: and everybody will bow for the korean overlords the one true deserving overlords ! depends on my mood admittedly i get really riled up sometimes rofl KESPAAAAAAAA | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
well in the bright side there's only gonna be 2 dota regions there's no Europe, USA, china or SEA anymore .. it's gonna be korean and foreigner like intended lol | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:18 Dracolich70 wrote: SyndereN is the common denominator of 2 qualification wins to TI in the toughest region. Not that this relates to synderen as a player really but the qualifiers from TI2 and TI3 were pretty different compared to the current ones. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:17 GumBa wrote: Not enough care about SC2, it has been dying for years, even in Korea. Little to do with Kespa and everything to do with Blizzard failing.Koreans killed sc2. Foreigners worked incredibly hard and got treated unfairly constantly. They are finally getting the money they deserve but I almost feel like the sanctions against korea aren't harsh enough. The skill cap between the professional teams working behind the Korean players and the western teams were too high. It was like amateurs competiting against organized professionals. | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:21 goody153 wrote: well in the bright side there's only gonna be 2 dota regions there's no Europe, USA, china or SEA anymore .. it's gonna be korean and foreigner like intended lol Lol calm down there grack! | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:21 goody153 wrote: well in the bright side there's only gonna be 2 dota regions there's no Europe, USA, china or SEA anymore .. it's gonna be korean and foreigner like intended lol I wonder who A-God would root for. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:22 spudde123 wrote: Somehow it doesn't relate to SyndereN that his teams(two different ones) qualified under his leadership.Not that this relates to synderen as a player really but the qualifiers from TI2 and TI3 were pretty different compared to the current ones. | ||
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Appendix
Sweden979 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:21 goody153 wrote: well in the bright side there's only gonna be 2 dota regions there's no Europe, USA, china or SEA anymore .. it's gonna be korean and foreigner like intended lol best day ever ! | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:23 Dracolich70 wrote: Not enough care about SC2, it has been dying for years, even in Korea. Little to do with Kespa and everything to do with Blizzard failing. The skill cap between the professional teams working behind the Korean players and the western teams were too high. It was like amateurs competiting against organized professionals. KeSPA infrastructure, for eSports, is on-par with most 2nd tier Professional Futball teams in Europe. The needs a lot less & cost are a lot less, but no one ever liked to discuss just the amount of support staff KeSPA teams have. That's the entire difference. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
nothing more needs to be said... back in those days the respect of foreigners was how many maps they can take from koreans in wcg, never mind winning it and even then korea rarely sent their best. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
A-Dog plz btw draft started omg this has been the most time conscious tournament I've watched suck it TI | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
It must tear him up inside i mean china and west can't be together .. but everybody must band to together to even have a chance against the Korean Overlords or joining them is better | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:26 Dracolich70 wrote: Somehow it doesn't relate to SyndereN that his teams(two different ones) qualified under his leadership. My point was that TI2 and TI3 qualifiers were different compared to current ones (they were NA+EU combined and the level of competition wasn't the same), but by pointing this out I wasn't really trying to hint anything about Synderen. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:32 Taf the Ghost wrote: I wonder if we'll ever find out which teams were Scrimming against each other that caused the Enigma Meta and why it still worked among them. (EG, Secret & Diggity were all using it heavily until really recently.) more like they have a player that farms very good using those hero notice I said farm, does not mean plays it well | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:30 Taf the Ghost wrote: The gap was still big, before Kespa entered SC2. It is just more prevalent now, because of what you say.KeSPA infrastructure, for eSports, is on-par with most 2nd tier Professional Futball teams in Europe. The needs a lot less & cost are a lot less, but no one ever liked to discuss just the amount of support staff KeSPA teams have. That's the entire difference. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:36 Vertical wrote: a wild chinese wisp appear rip huge winstreak i'm sure they lost | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:30 Vertical wrote: btw draft started omg this has been the most time conscious tournament I've watched suck it TI yea but thats kinda ridiculous isnt it? i mean diggity just finished a bo3 they should get at least some break to reset before the next matchup o.o | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:11 Nedereden wrote: 7.7k+ MMR =! mediocre. Revise your antibias maybe? Have you actually seen him stream or play in faceit? Compared to his peers, he is terrible. Did you watch the times when he played mid for Mouz (with the Danes...)? He is just not good mechanically. I have actually watched a lot of his games in the past to have come to this conclusion. Maybe he is a good in game leader or drafter and I give him credit and actually respect him for that. But his mechanical skills are lacking for pro players standards. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:33 spudde123 wrote: You beat what is in front of you. Skill caps have increased, but that goes for SyndereN too, and those he play with. If this wasn't trying to hint anything about SyndereN, in a discussion about SyndereN, what was it? Filler?My point was that TI2 and TI3 qualifiers were different compared to current ones (they were NA+EU combined and the level of competition wasn't the same), but by pointing this out I wasn't really trying to hint anything about Synderen. EU was the deepest back then, and still is, even after the split. NA wasn't really relevant back then either. Quantic left early and so did EG the year after. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
with Newbee 3 times in a row 1st picking it | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:39 Vertical wrote: Doom 100% pick/ban now with Newbee 3 times in a row 1st picking it actually i think in the qualifiers newbee also picked doom all the time iirc | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:37 a-game wrote: yea but thats kinda ridiculous isnt it? i mean diggity just finished a bo3 they should get at least some break to reset before the next matchup o.o it depends how many mins they can consider as a break I think we have 1 hour of break already ? | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
ants in my ears I REPEAT, ANTS IN MY EARS !!! | ||
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HammerKick
France6190 Posts
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7710 Posts
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malcram
2752 Posts
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DizzySheep
Australia1144 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:38 Dracolich70 wrote: You beat what is in front of you. Skill caps have increased, but that goes for SyndereN too, and those he play with. If this wasn't trying to hint anything about SyndereN, in a discussion about SyndereN, what was it? Filler? Quite obviously the comment was in response to you talking about "2 qualification wins to TI in the toughest region", when the qualifiers didn't even have the same regions they have now. And also the connection of those wins to Duck's assessment about Synderen as a player now is remote at best. Not that it is negative either of course, just that they happened quite a while back. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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malcram
2752 Posts
and he's hungry.... edit: i knew i missed a pun somewhere | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
The west is in flames. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
dawg please | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
half of the death are from Hao | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:10 juff wrote: why did slark get manta, and why is void building it? school of ee build manta on every hero | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
afaik the only manta-able ability on newbee is poison attack. edit: and infernal blade | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
manta on slark feels really mediocre without any silences since he can just q to purge | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
(but easier said then done...) | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:14 juff wrote: afaik the only manta-able ability on newbee is poison attack. there's doom purge i guess | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:15 Kraznaya wrote: manta on slark feels really mediocre without any silences since he can just q to purge what if slark gets radiance and octarine | ||
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turpentine
1624 Posts
needs midas for full alch role-play | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
pls nobody goes midas on alch nowadays maybe armlet regardless radinace-octarine is always #1 | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:22 goody153 wrote: does Hao seem poor for their lead ? not really. he was feeding quite a few kills until he got his radiance | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
does that stack with the 2nd skill ? | ||
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turpentine
1624 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:22 goody153 wrote: does Hao seem poor for their lead ? pls nobody goes midas on alch nowadays maybe armlet regardless radinace-octarine is always #1 midas is to pretend you have greevil's greed | ||
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eonrulz
United Kingdom225 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:24 goody153 wrote: wait is that a skadi on viper does that stack with the 2nd skill ? Yeah the orb is no longer a UAM anymore | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:24 turpentine wrote: midas is to pretend you have greevil's greed oh yeah that makes sense it's also like greevils greed for bounty runes since it's almost 2 minutes per midas cooldown lol | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
wow that's some frog dota | ||
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
only 5 heroes have orbs now: AM, drow, OD, sand king and jakiro | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On May 09 2016 18:01 Azarkon wrote: They did, in fact. But the Chinese worked harder in 2012, and 2014 was very close when you look at the games lost on each side, and the West was behind before the international in 2014, as shown by the results of every team except for PPD's. Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool There was one team that was able to stand toe to toe with the Eastern teams and that was Na'vi, period. Na'vi was historically the only team that could stand up against the East at the time especially considering they were just DTS part 2. Everyone else got absolutely smashed every single time in heads up play vs Eastern teams at TI2. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:34 opterown wrote: how many games in a row is that now for newbee i think we are at 23 now | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
15-0 at manila china qualifier 6-0 at h-cup 6 their last game dropped was against iG (game 1 of BO3 in h-cup 6 WB semis on april 22) 24 games equal longest streak of all time in pro dota? i'm not sure | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:36 opterown wrote: 3-0 so far at epicenter 15-0 at manila china qualifier 6-0 at h-cup 6 their last game dropped was against iG (game 1 of BO3 in h-cup 6 WB semis on april 22) 24 games equal longest streak of all time in pro dota? i'm not sure yea, need 1 more to beat navi's (or alliance?, not sure) | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:34 superstartran wrote: Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool There was one team that was able to stand toe to toe with the Eastern teams and that was Na'vi, period. Na'vi was historically the only team that could stand up against the East at the time especially considering they were just DTS part 2. Everyone else got absolutely smashed every single time in heads up play vs Eastern teams at TI2. getting baited by a-god in 2016 | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:34 superstartran wrote: Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool There was one team that was able to stand toe to toe with the Eastern teams and that was Na'vi, period. Na'vi was historically the only team that could stand up against the East at the time especially considering they were just DTS part 2. Everyone else got absolutely smashed every single time in heads up play vs Eastern teams at TI2. The international in 2012 is a poor example for any argument. Back then the West only had old talent from Dota due to the game being new, and China was way ahead of the West in Dota, so they just used that and three months of practice to win. The West as a region began its rise in 2013 and completed it in 2015. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:36 opterown wrote: 3-0 so far at epicenter 15-0 at manila china qualifier 6-0 at h-cup 6 their last game dropped was against iG (game 1 of BO3 in h-cup 6 WB semis on april 22) 24 games equal longest streak of all time in pro dota? i'm not sure I guess most of the streak will be looked down upon by the fans of "better" teams. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:31 turpentine wrote: The way this game played out, feels like blink lion & sb doom shut down all of Dig. Their pickoff potential, their teamfight, everything I call it the Global Presence Draft. Secret rolled out the Invoker + Lion + Nature's Prophet version at Shanghai against EG. Any team with a good NP will normally play it against EG, as a result. It's REALLY good at shutting down the "split out and farm" style that EG is the master's of pulling off. It works by out-numbering the cores you're trying to gank. Either the team stays around as 5 (and gets outfarmed) or they get ganked and fall behind. It's a bit like what Wisp used to cause back in the TI3 era. Come to think on it. And it's far more advanced than just playing Wisp or NP and showing up to fights. In this game, Newbee invised Doom + Lion and they could initiate on any hero. Doom or Lion's Stun ensures that Finger gets off. When you add in Wisp + Spectre, the entire team can show up to gank any hero with the initiation advantage. (It also works for Defense, as well.) MVP.P are probably the best at dealing with that approach, since they operate off a re-engagement strategy. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:34 superstartran wrote: EG had a pretty good match vs iG at TI2 losing 2-1. And TL beat LGD in TI3. MYM was 4th at TI1. EHome was the only Chinese team in Top 4.Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool There was one team that was able to stand toe to toe with the Eastern teams and that was Na'vi, period. Na'vi was historically the only team that could stand up against the East at the time especially considering they were just DTS part 2. Everyone else got absolutely smashed every single time in heads up play vs Eastern teams at TI2. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:38 Racket wrote: I guess most of the streak will be looked down upon by the fans of "better" teams. i don't know how many "better" teams there are than ti champs haha | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:38 Racket wrote: I guess most of the streak will be looked down upon by the fans of "better" teams. As a fan of better teams, I'd look down on Navi's streak, too. As a fan of better teams, I also look down on Fnatic streak? | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:42 opterown wrote: Possibly those that aren't in the Chinese qualifier and teams that either didn't qualify for the major, or is an NAdota team like CoL.i don't know how many "better" teams there are than ti champs haha | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:42 opterown wrote: i don't know how many "better" teams there are than ti champs haha Yea well, you know how posters are better than me, you are a moderator. On May 09 2016 20:44 TanGeng wrote: As a fan of better teams, I'd look down on Navi's streak, too. As a fan of better teams, I also look down on Fnatic streak? I don't know, I am not looking down on anyone so I can't answer that. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
On May 09 2016 19:40 Vertical wrote: it depends how many mins they can consider as a break I think we have 1 hour of break already ? No it was 30 mins and that had to include any bathroom breaks/smoke breaks/joining lobbies etc. Basically they didn't get any chance to reset and had to go straight to the next match. I'd personally rather wait a few extra minutes for the show to resume if that means it's going to be better dota | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:50 a-game wrote: No it was 30 mins and that had to include any bathroom breaks/smoke breaks/joining lobbies etc. Basically they didn't get any chance to reset and had to go straight to the next match. I'd personally rather wait a few extra minutes for the show to resume if that means it's going to be better dota just put em in diapers & hook em up to redbull/monster IVs #TheShowMustGoOn | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
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1nobody
Czech Republic2040 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:04 1nobody wrote: Does this mean that qojqva can kind of play only tinker whos garbage now? Tinker was gaining some popularity in the major quals and nodiggity specifically seems to be 4-0 with it in the last week | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:01 Kraznaya wrote: why did everyone think nodig had the draft advantage? wisp+healingward+bristle is a pretty disgusting combo, and is quite good vs march Because of BM vision and Tinker high ground defense, also Naix counters BB. There is a slight draft advantage if DiG can play the game they drafted for. But like I said, they are too low skilled compared to NB for that to even have any significance. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 20:38 Racket wrote: I guess most of the streak will be looked down upon by the fans of "better" teams. what i'm a newbee fan but owning china is different from owning everybody outside china .. so far they've only won literally 1 series against a nonchinese as much as i wanted to proclaim them as the best and whatever they still have to prove themselves , if they win this lan or at least top 3 then easy they are as good as they are against everybody like in china | ||
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1nobody
Czech Republic2040 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:06 spudde123 wrote: Tinker was gaining some popularity in the major quals and nodiggity specifically seems to be 4-0 with it in the last week oh, i remember it wrong, oops | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:06 goody153 wrote: what i'm a newbee fan but owning china is different from owning everybody outside china .. so far they've only won literally 1 series against a nonchinese yeah but some of the chinese teams they beat have won western tourneys etc too so transitive property etc right haha i kid i know it's not so legit but they're a good team | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:06 goody153 wrote: what i'm a newbee fan but owning china is different from owning everybody outside china .. so far they've only won literally 1 series against a nonchinese Don't take it to heart, I just pointed out that opteron could be happy about it where other may claim that streak means nothing. I was just adding perspective. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:01 Kraznaya wrote: why did everyone think nodig had the draft advantage? wisp+healingward+bristle is a pretty disgusting combo, and is quite good vs march The way this strategy works is that you want to win in the middle game and one of the best hero against that is on the other team. Newbee's strategy has a problem with late game when any of their support can die in one second. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:06 FreakyDroid wrote: Because of BM vision and Tinker high ground defense, also Naix counters BB. There is a slight draft advantage if DiG can play the game they drafted for. But like I said, they are too low skilled compared to NB for that to even have any significance. i don't agree at all that naix counters bristle naix is susceptible to physical damage and bristle is all physical (and likewise jug is a soft counter for naix, since he has no way to protect himself from omni other htan infest) dotabuff lists bristle as having a 1% matchup advantage vs naix, relative to their overall winrates edit: bat is also a naix and tinker counter | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:08 opterown wrote: yeah but some of the chinese teams they beat have won western tourneys etc too so transitive property etc right haha i kid i know it's not so legit but they're a good team Yeah they're pretty good even if not proven as championship caliber yet(if they actually are). Well this newbee , the last few iterations not so much haha | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:09 Azarkon wrote: The way this strategy works is that you want to win in the middle game and one of the best hero against that is on the other team. Newbee's strategy has a problem with late game when any of their support can die in one second. healing ward push counters tinker not vice versa | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:09 Racket wrote: Don't take it to heart, I just pointed out that opteron could be happy about it where other may claim that streak means nothing. I was just adding perspective. damn it put a note at the end or something i'm so horrible at reading jokes or w/e .. i immediately get heated up | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:11 Kraznaya wrote: healing ward push counters tinker not vice versa You can kill it. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Can't wait seeing Newbee mopping the floor with Secret and EG. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
you would have to position yourself horribly to kill it | ||
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turpentine
1624 Posts
By that token, you can just kill the tinker and there won't be any march. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:09 Kraznaya wrote: i don't agree at all that naix counters bristle naix is susceptible to physical damage and bristle is all physical (and likewise jug is a soft counter for naix, since he has no way to protect himself from omni other htan infest) dotabuff lists bristle as having a 1% matchup advantage vs naix, relative to their overall winrates Naix is vulnerable to quick physical damage like jugg omnislash, but not slow dmg from bristle. So its quite the opposite of what you said. On May 09 2016 21:09 Kraznaya wrote: edit: bat is also a naix and tinker counter Yes, but DiG can also setup Naix traps with Tinker and the others behind them, bait Bat and potential wisp relocates. But as I've been saying DiG are too low skilled. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:11 goody153 wrote: damn it put a note at the end or something i'm so horrible at reading jokes or w/e .. i immediately get heated up XD well, you are right, reading stuff is different from hearing it. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
outdrafted and outplayed | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:15 babysimba wrote: DG's lineup is supposed to be able to compete with Newbee's at any point of the game, but they let Newbee took over the entire map. I doubt they can stop the brute force of Newbee now i think people really underestimate how strong the jug-bristle-wisp trio is. i've never seen mvp lose with it | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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goody153
44064 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:16 Kraznaya wrote: i think people really underestimate how strong the jug-bristle-wisp trio is. i've never seen mvp lose with it It is a very effective strategy but when the Koreans play it, they always play it into a strategy that doesn't have enough hold. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:16 Kraznaya wrote: i think people really underestimate how strong the jug-bristle-wisp trio is. i've never seen mvp lose with it "Recently". It has to be played really well. Which Newbee has played okay. If NoDiggity had ever rotated and done any ganking... | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:18 Azarkon wrote: It is a very effective strategy but when the Koreans play it, they always play it into a strategy that doesn't have enough hold. azarkon is not smart. | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:21 Kraznaya wrote: look at nb pushing into march not giving a fuck to be fair at this point they have the 20k gold lead that allows you to break a tinker's base regardless, but yeah ward (and rubick stealing dazzle's heal!)>tinker | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
You'll see top Western teams win it later. I'm sure they have learned with regards to this strategy after losing the most recent tournament against it. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
hype boys | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:21 Kraznaya wrote: look at nb pushing into march not giving a fuck They weren't earlier. They started doing this after getting way ahead. You can push in with any strategy when you're that ahead at 20 minutes. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:24 Azarkon wrote: They weren't earlier. They started doing this after getting way ahead. You can push in with any strategy when you're that ahead at 20 minutes. even mvp needs to be ahead with that strategy lol | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
At least Jugg Wisp Bristle can DGAF push high ground. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7710 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:28 PhoenixVoid wrote: Anyone else having audio crackling? yeah, it's pretty awful | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
never not audio cracking | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:29 Taf the Ghost wrote: Okay, so Newbee vs Secret tomorrow. That should be fun. how do they determine which group the qualifiers go in? does upper winner just get to pick? | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:28 TanGeng wrote: You can insert any strategy with either you snowball or you don't, if the strategy is snowballing. Tinker is not really about snowballing but adding split pushing options, but that is not all that viable against a Wisp strategy and tanky heroes.Honestly tinker games are either snowballing snoozefest or high ground snoozefests. Like that took about 5 more minutes than necessary. NewBee took the lanes and then map control and then snoozefested a win. At least Jugg Wisp Bristle can DGAF push high ground. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:23 Azarkon wrote: You'll see top Western teams win it later. I'm sure they have learned with regards to this strategy after losing the most recent tournament against it. Newsflash, West no longer has top teams left, huehue. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:33 Dracolich70 wrote: You can insert any strategy with either you snowball or you don't, if the strategy is snowballing. Tinker is not really about snowballing but adding split pushing options, but that is not all that viable against a Wisp strategy. ... i think the emphasis is about the snoozefest ... | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:23 Azarkon wrote: You'll see top Western teams win it later. I'm sure they have learned with regards to this strategy after losing the most recent tournament against it. Like we saw top Western teams win it later at ESL Manilla, amirite | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:35 TanGeng wrote: Your emphasis is pretty much meaningless, other than stating you find watching strategies that are either snowballing or not boring, while not identifying this isn't about snowballing, since Tinker is not about snowballing.... i think the emphasis is about the snoozefest ... Just say you find Tinker games boring, and you are good. | ||
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Akill0816
Germany90 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:39 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Healing ward is the best non-ultimate ability in a game, right? Clearly. Why didn't DiG ban Jugg instead of spectre? | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:37 lolfail9001 wrote: Like we saw top Western teams win it later at ESL Manilla, amirite No no no it was day 2 is western day This a-dog just gonna type "west gonna win" every tournament Then when west lost he goes "sometimes i wrong, but i was right most of time" And when west do win "oh yeah I'm so smart, china noob, gg azardog is right yeah yeah yeah, now azardog back to serve at McDonald | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:43 Vertical wrote: No no no it was day 2 is western day This a-dog just gonna type "west gonna win" every tournament Then when west lost he goes "sometimes i wrong, but i was right most of time" And when west do win "oh yeah I'm so smart, china noob, gg azardog is right yeah yeah yeah, now azardog back to serve at McDonald Lol, why so much hate? He keeps these threads alive and at least he tries to actually analyse stuff instead of chanting the name of the best player of the world of the week like most do. Trolling is ok but hating is kind of over the line. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:47 Racket wrote: Lol, why so much hate? He keeps these threads alive and at least he tries to actually analyse stuff instead of chanting the name of the best player of the world of the week like most do. Trolling is ok but hating is kind of over the line. everytime someone flames a-god he just grows in power | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:39 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Healing ward is the best non-ultimate ability in a game, right? Newbee wins if Jug W is a dance that hits for 0 dmg for 2 seconds. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:29 Taf the Ghost wrote: Okay, so Newbee vs Secret tomorrow. That should be fun. It's confirmed they are in group B? Omg Group b is so stacked minus VP who are just meh | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:49 Pandemona wrote: It's confirmed they are in group B? Omg Group b is so stacked minus VP who are just meh Maybe tomorrow is the day where FNG is back to support while Aloha goes Carry and yoku back to offlane , that lineup will crush games | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:48 ch33psh33p wrote: everytime someone flames a-god he just grows in power That was fun, you have +1 | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:49 bluzi wrote: Maybe tomorrow is the day where FNG is back to support while Aloha goes Carry and yoku back to offlane , that lineup will crush games If it didn't happen in Kyiv, if it didn't happen in manila qualifiers, why will it happen now I have them disbanding fully after they fail in ti6 qualifiers. All thanks to FNG kicking lil and phobos ^_^ | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
343 might be in the captains seat but now we know the real reason fnatic's drafts improved when mushi was away | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:50 Pandemona wrote: If it didn't happen in Kyiv, if it didn't happen in manila qualifiers, why will it happen now I have them disbanding fully after they fail in ti6 qualifiers. All thanks to FNG kicking lil and phobos ^_^ I believe they will give it a try before the disband , unless yoku really isn't going back to offlane EVER | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:50 Pandemona wrote: If it didn't happen in Kyiv, if it didn't happen in manila qualifiers, why will it happen now I have them disbanding fully after they fail in ti6 qualifiers. All thanks to FNG kicking lil and phobos ^_^ Do we have any info on why did they actually part ways? | ||
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:53 ch33psh33p wrote: oh my god make it stop oh my god dont stop it | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:51 Kraznaya wrote: tinker and AM. 343 might be in the captains seat but now we know the real reason fnatic's drafts improved when mushi was away I have TI4 VG vs DK flashbacks. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
feelsbad | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:53 Racket wrote: Do we have any info on why did they actually part ways? According to Lil and Phobos FNG straight up kicked them. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:43 TanGeng wrote: Clearly. Why didn't DiG ban Jugg instead of spectre? The Batrider + Wisp opening leaves open a good chunk of cores that work with the MVP-style draft. It's a well-laid out draft, in that regard. (Let's ignore that Rubick wasn't that useful of a pick.) Which is part of the entire approach with Drafting: your opening Picks should allow you multiple ways of completing your strategy. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:57 Pandemona wrote: According to Lil and Phobos FNG straight up kicked them. So nice, we just have to wait until they disband to spam #kicklilandphobos #neverforget | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:00 juff wrote: 1/1/2 build on am. i think stats gives more survivability than the 2nd point in spell shield. ion shell | ||
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:04 DonDomingo wrote: didnt old DK with mushi iceiceice burning run bm am tinker one game a long time ago? :D that game broke my heart Yes. Against The Deathball Vici Gaming no less. Now we know who's idea was that :D | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
Complexity took a Tier 3 before Fnatic got a Tier 1. That's not gone well for Fnatic. | ||
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MetalMercury
United States1161 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Elurie
4716 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:19 Salazarz wrote: Why is Ohaiyo afk... "I'm typing" lol | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Lancehead
Canada123 Posts
My internet seems to be fine. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:21 Salazarz wrote: It's weird really, it's not like Mushi is playing bad -- if anything, he's playing better than anyone else on fnatic, yet somehow they look completely lost. Maybe he's just raging too much in comms or something that makes everyone else suck when he's there, who knows. feel more like his influence on the draft has been a clear negative | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:23 PhoenixVoid wrote: I'll give Fnatic the benefit of the doubt if they lose this series, but I'm not so sure they can continue being the SEA kings at this rate. Well, it speaks more badly of SEA. MVP are constantly improving. Fnatic constantly imploding. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:23 Kraznaya wrote: feel more like his influence on the draft has been a clear negative The draft wasn't even THIS bad for this particular game imo, but fnatic are making so many really stupid mistakes in terms of positioning, overextensions etc; really looks like a team that has some kind of an internal dispute or something. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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MetalMercury
United States1161 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:27 MetalMercury wrote: I think Fnatic will win this game if they stall one more push. This will be a bad moment for pubs. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
FUCKING BLADE | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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MetalMercury
United States1161 Posts
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MetalMercury
United States1161 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:30 MetalMercury wrote: Game is over Fnatic gonna win lol Or not. By Mushi be praised! Ohaiyo is playing worse than I've ever seen. | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
That position 5 beastmaster though.... | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:33 TanGeng wrote: Peeking in it's another tinker snoozefest. Fnatic win this slow strangling push fest. rip | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:33 TanGeng wrote: Peeking in it's another tinker snoozefest. Fnatic win this slow strangling push fest.  | ||
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BlazingGlory
Bulgaria854 Posts
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Vallelol
Germany1046 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:27 Salazarz wrote: They are hurting, because they have to buy space for Mushi's ego.The draft wasn't even THIS bad for this particular game imo, but fnatic are making so many really stupid mistakes in terms of positioning, overextensions etc; really looks like a team that has some kind of an internal dispute or something. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Tinker in pubs =/= tinker in pro games. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:37 GumBa wrote: They function more as a team, rather than trying to play into Mushi believing he is the player he was 2-3 years ago.Would net have won that? | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:39 ForTehDarkseid wrote: 2ez. Tinker in pubs =/= tinker in pro games. I dunno, No Diggity have actually done really well with Tinker when they've picked him. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
But it's Fnatic, the only team that can jump from tier 1 to tier 2.5 in a less than a week, soo | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:44 shouldbeworking wrote: Anti-push and push, plus burst damage.Well it is kinda true. You have to draft and play around the AM. Not just run around as 4 and feed. They planned on making it work, but they had so many bad rotations they became ineffective. Big issue was the tinker pick. Wtf was that suppose to do, but help them turtle. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Nedereden
777 Posts
Otherwise this panel is absolutely on point - totally calling out Mushi despite ReDeYe's attempts to prop him up, probably thinking that thats the popular opinion! Not enough preparation this time Mr. Chaloner. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:44 shouldbeworking wrote: Well it is kinda true. You have to draft and play around the AM. Not just run around as 4 and feed. They planned on making it work, but they had so many bad rotations they became ineffective. Big issue was the tinker pick. Wtf was that suppose to do, but help them turtle. Honestly tinker did his job, making highground hard. AM did too. The issue was the other three nonfactors. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:47 GumBa wrote: I like epicenters production so far tbh and they haven't had massive delays so far right? I believe we're actually almost an hour ahead of schedule. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:47 GumBa wrote: I like epicenters production so far tbh and they haven't had massive delays so far right? Other than the occasional audio issue looks like it's been as close to flawless as it gets, almost TI tier. | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
edit: found the vod: MiTH vs First Departure (SEA League - Group Stages) | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:48 Taf the Ghost wrote: I believe we're actually almost an hour ahead of schedule. My word. Best event 2016 sorry TI | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:47 Nedereden wrote: ReDeYe is starting to grind my nerves... He obviously isnt in touch with the scene and doesnt come across humble like Kotlguy or selfdeprecatory like 2GD... Otherwise this panel is absolutely on point - totally calling out Mushi despite ReDeYe's attempts to prop him up, probably thinking that thats the popular opinion! Not enough preparation this time Mr. Chaloner. He doesn't have to have accurate analysis, come on. He's just there to facilitate conversation... | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
And we have yet saw the life size roshan statue | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:56 StarVe wrote: NA strats inc Yeah, oh, ET. NADota, representing! | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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jakesrevenge
United States329 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:16 lolfail9001 wrote: Of course they picked heroes that can better deal with early game aggression, than in g1.Ok, this Fnatic looks better for now | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:20 Dracolich70 wrote: Of course they picked heroes that can better deal with early game aggression, than in g1. I talk about lack of random feeds. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:26 ForTehDarkseid wrote: pos 4 ET = ggno re. SVG's ET is mean. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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LennX
4530 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:00 ForTehDarkseid wrote: wombo combo youtube highlight here we go | ||
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Nashi
Sweden61 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Savatage
Italy182 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:35 StarVe wrote: yeah, Chessie really having no impact in any fights and this BoT first build from Limpp didn't have any benefit in the early game as far as I'm aware. Are you talking about Limmp? It's limp with bots first potm over here | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
tp back to buy refresher realize you don't have buyback | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:36 lolfail9001 wrote: Are you talking about Limmp? It's limp with bots first potm over here yeah i didn't type what i was thinking at first Fnatic really trying hard to throw here. Honestly, every remaining team in the Wild Card seems far worse than Newbee. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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pellejohnson
United States1931 Posts
2 lanes down.... | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
LOOOOOOOOOL | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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maximrobi
Hungary347 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:49 maximrobi wrote: This is kinda bullshit to be able to dodge Sven stun with Vendetta... That's kinda game mechanics, duh. | ||
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maximrobi
Hungary347 Posts
Not talking about Spectre Manta illusion tanking arrow and not disappearing... Was that normal? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:53 maximrobi wrote: Not talking about Spectre Manta illusion tanking arrow and not disappearing... Was that normal? Why would arrow instakill illusions? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:53 maximrobi wrote: Not talking about Spectre Manta illusion tanking arrow and not disappearing... Was that normal? Obviously, arrow only insta kills creeps, manta illusions can easily tank it. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
I guess he thinks they work like Lion's hex, which they don't. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:57 Sn0_Man wrote: Man i wish hex instakilled creeps lion wud be so good XD yeah, better save that Finger for tankier stuff. | ||
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maximrobi
Hungary347 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:57 Racket wrote: I guess he thinks they work like Lion's hex, which they don't. ..or Mana Drain IIRC | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Or pick Wisp onto IonShelled axe. Decisions, decisions.. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On May 09 2016 23:49 maximrobi wrote: This is kinda bullshit to be able to dodge Sven stun with Vendetta... it's not like vendetta is a efficient way of dodging storm hammer, which has a much lower cooldown | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:11 ForTehDarkseid wrote: How to lose a deciding game: pick Mirana mid. Or pick Wisp onto IonShelled axe. Decisions, decisions.. I think aghs Mirana fits with what col are trying to do with axe and DS pick | ||
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:13 Kamisamanachi wrote: I think aghs Mirana fits with what col are trying to do with axe and DS pick As long as they build the aghs instead of BoT like last game. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Go CoL Go, NA strats reign supreme. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
im not sure, but Axe/DS are great against Wisp | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
offlane mirana, bm mid | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:20 DucK- wrote: Very certain you don't need iron talon to jungle as axe, and that it actually slows your jungling. patently wrong | ||
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:15 Kamisamanachi wrote: OK MVP way...wisp bristleboss MVP drafts Io BB on Dire to abuse side-pull for offlane. This is a radiant BB Io draft xD two completely different things | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
Axe is fucking stacked | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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uthgard
2098 Posts
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Exoteric
Australia2330 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On another rubberband feed. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
noice! | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
Am I? Though I just realised that this was a dual jungle and not solo jungle. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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LennX
4530 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
wtf is this game | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:26 Logo wrote: I really wish the dieing hero's net worth didn't factor into the comeback gold .At this point in the game people overstate the impact of "comeback gold" just because axe was super farmed for 8 minutes doesn't mean that he has enough networth for it to matter. The loss of momentum (farming time and threat time) is far more significant. Also long before 6.82 comeback patch a death there is the same problem. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Vadrigar
Bulgaria2379 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Axe Fat. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
Why'd Axe go after the Witch Doctor and split up. | ||
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Exoteric
Australia2330 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
PANICKING CHOKING | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
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pellejohnson
United States1931 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:34 PhoenixVoid wrote: The throws... Why'd Axe go after the Witch Doctor and split up. Yeah, I think that was the mistake that cost them the fight. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Kasto
473 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:37 TanGeng wrote: is this game as clowny as it sounds More than that. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:31 Sn0_Man wrote: At this point in the game people overstate the impact of "comeback gold" just because axe was super farmed for 8 minutes doesn't mean that he has enough networth for it to matter. The loss of momentum (farming time and threat time) is far more significant. Also long before 6.82 comeback patch a death there is the same problem. I know, but those reasons exactly why I dislike it. It's just an unnecessary topper to the already problem of losing your core players. In this case you could see the effect, it shows up pretty distinctly on the gold graphs when the positional advantage and momentum was more than enough to even the game back out. It's not that I dislike all comeback gold like some people, I just dislike some of the specifics. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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turpentine
1624 Posts
I don't see how fnatic can beat greaves + WW at this point | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Exoteric
Australia2330 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
pretty sure it wont | ||
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Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
No chance anyone lets them do this again. Or at the very least, they'll run roamers than will disrupt it (Did coL ban bounty for this game?) | ||
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:46 Snakesneaks wrote: heart is so much better than shiva in this condition No difference whatsoever tbh. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
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Nedereden
777 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
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malcram
2752 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:48 Spicy_Curry wrote: LOL the net needs to close around fnatic i see what you did there | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
no damage on fnatic | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:50 ref4 wrote: what to do vs. such tanky cores? get lifestealer? was he banned? Yeah, banned second phase (thanks, trackdota). | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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LennX
4530 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
they lost to no diggity and col | ||
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pellejohnson
United States1931 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:52 hunter_x wrote: Always cool to see teams who kicked their players like fnatic and secret faul. For once I actually agree with you | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:55 LennX wrote: At least Net wasn't part of this clownfest LOL maybe it wouldn't have been a clownfest without mushit | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Procake
3803 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
Fnatic got cheesed. They didn't play that bad actually in game 3. Great strategy by col though. Props to that. | ||
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Procake
3803 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:58 Procake wrote: What was the strategy I only saw last few minutes really tanky Axe + DK, with Axe + winter wyvern jungling | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:52 hunter_x wrote: Always cool to see teams who kicked their players like fnatic and secret faul. Lol still cribbing bout Secret? Left to you you'd prefer they stick together despite them feeling things weren't working out? Also I'd like you to do a silly college project without trying to find the best combination of people... Leave alone a ~15 million dollar torney. Remember this was their last transfer window before TI. Please get a perspective srsly... Zz.. | ||
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Procake
3803 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:00 ref4 wrote: really tanky Axe + DK, with Axe + winter wyvern jungling thanks | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:00 ref4 wrote: really tanky Axe + DK, with Axe + winter wyvern jungling Also Mirana stacking ancients right? How did they do the WW + Axe jungling? Stack then clear with winter's blast and cold embrace? | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:03 Logo wrote: Also Mirana stacking ancients right? How did they do the WW + Axe jungling? Stack then clear with winter's blast and cold embrace? Stack and Axe can spin while cold embrace | ||
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:03 Logo wrote: Also Mirana stacking ancients right? How did they do the WW + Axe jungling? Stack then clear with winter's blast and cold embrace? Chopped down a bunch of trees before the horn, axe moved between and cleared three camps while ww stacked another a few times, then axe cleared the stack by spinning through cold embrace. Meanwhile, mirana had been leeching xp in lane and stacking ancients, and then axe cleared that with cold embrace, too. Had vanguard and 1.5k between 6 and 7 minutes iirc. Woulda been a super fast vanguard+blink, but then axe and dk fed at the radiant ancients. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:03 Logo wrote: Also Mirana stacking ancients right? How did they do the WW + Axe jungling? Stack then clear with winter's blast and cold embrace? yeah, while mirana offlane built a 6 minute 6 ancient stacks that axe+ww cleared in no time, cold embracing axe. Ended up 6k networth while the next top was at 4k | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:06 MrCon wrote: yeah, while mirana offlane built a 6 minute 6 ancient stacks that axe+ww cleared in no time, cold embracing axe. Ended up 6k networth while the next top was at 4k Thanks, I missed early game and came back to a 6 stack Jungle at 6:00 and an Axe running towards it wonder wtf had happened. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:01 Nedereden wrote: Lol still cribbing bout Secret? Left to you you'd prefer they stick together despite them feeling things weren't working out? Also I'd like you to do a silly college project without trying to find the best combination of people... Leave alone a ~15 million dollar torney. Remember this was their last transfer window before TI. Please get a perspective srsly... Zz.. Or you just pick the right teammates from the Start. Just look at liquid. I mean how often has secret switched players? An awful lot for such a young team. Thats because they always have too many Egos on the team. I dont like that aproach of making a team. | ||
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Souldivnr
Cuba127 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:13 hunter_x wrote: Or you just pick the right teammates from the Start. Just look at liquid. I mean how often has secret switched players? An awful lot for such a young team. Thats because they always have too many Egos on the team. I dont like that aproach of making a team. Secret has been around since August 2014.......they're not a young team. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Fnatic picked 3 melee-cores and Wisp into Axe-DS first pick. Jungle tricks or not, that wasn't supposed to go well by any stretch of imagination. And coL doesn't lose showing this either, DiG are Axe pickers themselves. | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:13 hunter_x wrote: Or you just pick the right teammates from the Start. Just look at liquid. I mean how often has secret switched players? An awful lot for such a young team. Thats because they always have too many Egos on the team. I dont like that aproach of making a team. So if you screw up your first iteration you stick with em no matter what?? Especially when RTZ was bought by EG as per PPDs plan and wasn't available when this secret was formed. Perspective wud tell you how much EE and Puppey strived for the right combination of player characteristics when setting up secret this year. They literally ran thru every possible mid before settling on w33 so don't tell me they shud have picked right!! I'm not even a secret fangay but the level of immaturity and lack of big picture viewpoint in some people is insane. -_- | ||
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:22 ref4 wrote: Secret has been around since August 2014.......they're not a young team. wat? there there were quite a lot of Team Secrets kky, s4, fly, n0tail, ppy rtz, s4, zai, kky, ppy EE, w33, misery, ppy, pld EE, rtz, universe, ppy, pld and a point where ppy formed a completely new team. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:28 Nyan wrote: wat? there there were quite a lot of Team Secrets kky, s4, fly, n0tail, ppy rtz, s4, zai, kky, ppy EE, w33, misery, ppy, pld EE, rtz, universe, ppy, pld and a point where ppy formed a completely new team. unless PPY leaves secret team secret is always PPY's team all the other 4 are interchangeable pawns, just like how Mushi treats his teammates | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:01 Nedereden wrote: I think it is more the thing about "We kick this because there is something we think that looks better on paper available, despite our success", that makes people turn against them, rather than the opportunity to turn something that didn't work into something that would. Your second perspective is not very admirable in most peoples eyes.Lol still cribbing bout Secret? Left to you you'd prefer they stick together despite them feeling things weren't working out? Also I'd like you to do a silly college project without trying to find the best combination of people... Leave alone a ~15 million dollar torney. Remember this was their last transfer window before TI. Please get a perspective srsly... Zz.. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
>interchangeable pawns Confirmed to have less knowledge in prodota than Ayesee. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Wish they got Voker/LD for Chessie, instead. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Procake
3803 Posts
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BlazingGlory
Bulgaria854 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:42 ForTehDarkseid wrote: >s4+Zai >interchangeable pawns Confirmed to have less knowledge in prodota than Ayesee. well this was back during the period of time when name S4 was often used for the "S - banned_Twitch_meme", during the TI5 period he wasn't always the god people make him out to be | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
Vlads on enigma Freaking switcharoo | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:52 lolfail9001 wrote: It always makes sense in giving the most tanky one the mek.Mek on doom Vlads on enigma Freaking switcharoo | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:42 ForTehDarkseid wrote: >s4+Zai >interchangeable pawns Confirmed to have less knowledge in prodota than Ayesee. Far as I know they both chose to leave though. s4 wanted to play with Alliance again, and Zai had studies to take care of. Sounds to me like maybe you're the Ayesee here. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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wims80
1892 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:56 Dysisa wrote: Far as I know they both chose to leave though. s4 wanted to play with Alliance again, and Zai had studies to take care of. Sounds to me like maybe you're the Ayesee here. You are really dense, forget about it. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
The only way to settle this debate is 1v1 SF mid. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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LennX
4530 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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malcram
2752 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On May 10 2016 02:04 Loanshark wrote: What the hell was SF doing, just walking around while Drow is low HP Yeah that was so confusing. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 10 2016 02:04 LennX wrote: what is qojvya doing.... drow was just beside him they were waiting for aegis to end LMAO | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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GiveMeYourtTots
990 Posts
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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LennX
4530 Posts
if drow died, at least that will be 5 seconds without drow aura and drow DPS for what its worth..... | ||
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
On May 10 2016 02:05 GiveMeYourtTots wrote: Uhm, what was qojqva doing in that fight? Had he just put one raze on drtow they wouldve won that fight, jesus he is so terrible at this game. He was waiting for drow aegis to run out. Which it did 1.5 seconds later. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Yurie
11757 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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lowdice
Sweden306 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:02 Sn0_Man wrote: I certainly wouldn't have described LC as a qojqva hero Kidding rite? He used to play it a lot on liquid and even on Tinker I think.... | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:05 Nedereden wrote: Kidding rite? He used to play it a lot on liquid and even on Tinker I think.... He was also terrible on it. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:11 Orome wrote: dear god this game is boring Only 10 deaths nearly 30 minutes in is quite passive. qojqva is a very sad mid right now standing fourth lowest NW. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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brbc
10 Posts
Clinkz +14 dmg Looks good | ||
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Faruko
Chile34169 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32739 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:13 ForTehDarkseid wrote: In most peoples books he is.I certainly wouldn't have decribed qojqva as a decent dota player. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
j/k, prolonged death animation. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
Lul | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:16 ForTehDarkseid wrote: cubmack j/k, prolonged death animation. You seem to dislike ND and qojqva in particular. Any reason? | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:13 ForTehDarkseid wrote: I certainly wouldn't have decribed qojqva as a decent dota player. Lul | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
One can't be terrible and be in Liquid | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
Fluff god | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
Alliance Lul User was warned for this post | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:18 Azarkon wrote: Newbee against the six best Western teams and one Russian team, going to be fun. Who will win this epic clash. A-god or China. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
EDIT: Or 1-3. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Blog god | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:19 lolfail9001 wrote: My bet is Liquid 0-3 in finals. EDIT: Or 1-3. You may trigger some people with that statement :D | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
I won't consider it a victory for the West to win this tournament, since the West has six teams. I will consider it a victory for the West, however, for Newbee to finish less than third. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:18 Azarkon wrote: Newbee against the six best Western teams and one Russian team, going to be fun. >six best Too much is too much. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:16 GumBa wrote: You seem to dislike ND and qojqva in particular. Any reason? Can't cheer for synderen after all. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Why not? He seems like an alright guy. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:16 GumBa wrote: You seem to dislike ND and qojqva in particular. Any reason? I think he was the guy who said fnatic would Steam roll esl Manila, and Midone is so much better then the other mids. Just a hater. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:23 Dracolich70 wrote: Most of West have rested on their laurels recently. I see this as a warmup tournament for most teams. They'll have two weeks from the end of this tournament to Manila, and with travel, etc., it's going to be a week of practice, so this is the best look at where teams are at. Teams won't show every strategy this tournament, but they will show their skill. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:24 GumBa wrote: Wonder if they could get diggity on the panel for the main event. Well synderen has time now;) | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:24 hunter_x wrote: I think he was the guy who said fnatic would Steam roll esl Manila, and Midone is so much better then the other mids. Just a hater. There's no doubting that midone is up there with all the top mids though. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:25 Azarkon wrote: yeah, they will not show their best strategies, that is if they even know them by now. I think it is safe to say that most of them will be very sub-par. EG and Secret showed they were pretty far off any top form,and I doubt OG are looking any good. This will probably be very experimental, and getting off some rust, and getting execution and team play tuned.They'll have two weeks from the end of this tournament to Manila, and with travel, etc., it's going to be a week of practice, so this is the best look at where teams are at. Teams won't show every strategy this tournament, but they will show their skill and decision making. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
He was always amazing at farming. And completely mediocre with item choices and decision making. Of course, I haven't seen many of No Diggity's games, so maybe he's gotten better. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:30 WolfintheSheep wrote: He carried TL, Tinker and Mouz, and is considered to be one of the best young players. I wouldn't say farming is his focal point. Rather mechanical skills. Needless to say he has been away for awhile, and therefore needs to more competitive play like some of his team mates.He was always amazing at farming. And completely mediocre with item choices and decision making. Of course, I haven't seen many of No Diggity's games, so maybe he's gotten better. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
he's a talented player but he doesn't play a winning style and icefrog is moving dota away from his style in any case. qojqva's always been the kind of player who loses with 100 more lasthits than the enemy carry and 0-1 deaths. People who think he was good are people like nahaz who have no fundamental grasp of dota and believe that the only thing that matters is your gpm figure on the score screen | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:35 Dracolich70 wrote: He carried TL, Tinker and Mouz, and is considered to be one of the best young players. I wouldn't say farming is his focal point. Rather mechanical skills. Needless to say he has been away for awhile, and therefore needs to more competitive play like some of his team mates. "Carried" is stretching a bit. He always choked after soaking up the farm around the map with his extremely passive play style. People tend to look at players who took a break / went away from the scene with rose tinted glasses, but forget that they took the break for a reason - they were horribly underperforming. Qojqva was great during/before TI3 days, but he has been consistently mediocre/sub par afterwards, aside from Liquid's respectable TI4 performance. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote: A lot of pro players have huge respect for Qojqva's skills. He *anchored* those teams lol he's a talented player but he doesn't play a winning style and icefrog is moving dota away from his style in any case. qojqva's always been the kind of player who loses with 100 more lasthits than the enemy carry and 0-1 deaths. People who think he was good are people like nahaz who have no fundamental grasp of dota and believe that the only thing that matters is your gpm figure on the score screen "but he doesn't play a winning style and icefrog is moving dota away from his style in any case. ". What does this even mean, exactly? | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:41 Dracolich70 wrote: A lot of pro players have huge respect for Qojqva's skills. I've heard praise of his strong mechanics from his teammates a year or more ago. IDK how much that means. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Yeah, he is great as a person, honestly. Always enjoyed his casting but his pro player career ended with mtw. He tilts easily as a captain and doesn't show much skills nowadays. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:24 hunter_x wrote: I think he was the guy who said fnatic would Steam roll esl Manila, and Midone is so much better then the other mids. Just a hater. Fnatic narrowly lost to the Wings. That series were a real finals in a hindsight. MidOne was hands down the best player at the tournament. His Invoker and Pugna were terrifying, so it's not like I was terribly wrong in my predictions. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:39 Piledriver wrote: On many of those teams, Qojqva held a high quality, despite his team mates didn't. He took a break because it was an uphill battle over 3 teams, not because he did poorly."Carried" is stretching a bit. He always choked after soaking up the farm around the map with his extremely passive play style. People tend to look at players who took a break / went away from the scene with rose tinted glasses, but forget that they took the break for a reason - they were horribly underperforming. Qojqva was great during/before TI3 days, but he has been consistently mediocre/sub par afterwards, aside from Liquid's respectable TI4 performance. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:50 Dracolich70 wrote: On many of those teams, Qojqva held a high quality, despite his team mates didn't. He took a break because it was an uphill battle over 3 teams, not because he did poorly. This is like MMR-Hell logic I mean sure qojqva has had some stinker teammates but still | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:53 FuzzyJAM wrote: PLD and Bulba? PLD was pretty obviously the best player on Mouz by a mile and Bulba was the only other decent one. Anyone who thinks Qojqva carried them (carried them to what, by the way?) confuses me greatly. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:53 Sn0_Man wrote: Well, it is a lot more valuable what Pro players consider, than someone that tries to throw something like this outthere, "but he doesn't play a winning style and icefrog is moving dota away from his style in any case. ", while trying to slate others knowledge on the game. Could you please explain what you are actually trying to say with this?This is like MMR-Hell logic I mean sure qojqva has had some stinker teammates but still | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
In addition to that, pro players disagree with each other, so the statements "Pro players think qojqva sucks" and "Pro players respect qojqva's skills" aren't even contradictory. The clearest proof of skill is results. No diggity don't have them. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:06 Sn0_Man wrote: I believe there is a far bit more proof for them to evaluate Qojqva than Biryu. At the end of the day it carries far more than some moderator that tries to underwhelm everyone with his vague and ultimately meaningless statements.Yes but not only are pro players wrong reasonably often (see: biryu), you also haven't actually cited any. I too can say "pro players agree with me" and not back it up whatsoever. In addition to that, pro players disagree with each other, so the statements "Pro players think qojqva sucks" and "Pro players respect qojqva's skills" aren't even contradictory. The clearest proof of skill is results. No diggity don't have them. So in other words you need results, to evaluate individual skills. Interesting. DiG has no results? | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
If any team just amps up the map control pressure and doesn't throw then game is hard. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
Everyone always blames the + 4 but then you all forget that players like sumail, miracle and rtz were able to distinguish themselves without a great supporting cast leading to them later joining good teams. We should call it Black^ syndrome | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:19 Spicy_Curry wrote: There is little proof of Sumail, since he had great supporting casts, but Miracle didn't achieve much with W33 in Balkan bears.Qojqva is hella overrated Everyone always blames the + 4 but then you all forget that players like sumail, miracle and rtz were able to distinguish themselves without a great supporting cast leading to them later joining good teams. We should call it Black^ syndrome | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:19 Spicy_Curry wrote: Qojqva is hella overrated Everyone always blames the + 4 but then you all forget that players like sumail, miracle and rtz were able to distinguish themselves without a great supporting cast leading to them later joining good teams. We should call it Black^ syndrome RTZ has much of the same problem, especially in the carry role. Sumail and miracle are tempo and map control players. Those are highly valuable. The strongest hint that EG would emerge stronger after the RTZ+Zai loss was the fact that Sumail was not the farm suck that RTZ was. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:18 TanGeng wrote: The game has been moving into aggessive heavy team play for quite a while. It is all about either participating or splitting the map up. Qojqva either participates or splits up the map.I'm with sn0_man here. I believe dota is moving away from Qojqva's farm heavy style that exerts no map influence. A lot of time it's like playing 4v5(+1) for half of the dota game (minutes 10-30). Just think if you had this really farm heavy carry that denied farm to the rest of your team. If any team just amps up the map control pressure and doesn't throw then game is hard. Qojqva has a lot of participation and often ends with a lot of kills from early to mid, so not sure about the farm heavy thing. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:23 TanGeng wrote: EG struggled to integrate both RTZ and Sumail, because they are both players that require protection, and with Sumail needing to have mobility and being able to snowball, while RTZ is a farm heavy player, it never quite clicked for them.RTZ has much of the same problem, especially in the carry role. Sumail and miracle are tempo and map control players. Those are highly valuable. The strongest hint that EG would emerge stronger after the RTZ+Zai loss was the fact that Sumail was not the farm suck that RTZ was. EG had to sit betweeen two stools, whether they should cater to Sumail or RTZ, while having Universe to get his farm, it kind of was an uphill battle where Sumail couldn't play to his strengths(nor RTZ). | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Anyway it's clear that neither of us are going to change each other's minds. Keep on supporting qojqva and maybe he'll be good some day. Would be cool to see. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:33 Sn0_Man wrote: Different EG?Ur talking about a completely different EG Anyway it's clear that neither of us are going to change each other's minds. Keep on supporting qojqva and maybe he'll be good some day. Would be cool to see. Yeah, it is quite clear that it takes a bit more to pursuade me, than what a week old user could say. Sorry. In other words, the site you are moderator for, held onto Qojqva for over a year, while he wasn't any good. It is not that I support Qojqva, but anyone who knows the slightest about the game knows he is a very good player. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:29 Dracolich70 wrote: The game has been moving into aggessive heavy team play for quite a while. It is all about either participating or splitting the map up. Qojqva either participates or splits up the map. Qojqva has a lot of participation and often ends with a lot of kills from early to mid, so not sure about the farm heavy thing. I don't know what you are watching but what I've seen is Qojqva teams do not exert the extent of map control that their relative strength to opposing team would suggest. That's leaving power projection on the table. There are certain heros where he is decent on pressuring the enemy team, but there are too many where he's in a overly safe position. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:39 Piledriver wrote: "Carried" is stretching a bit. He always choked after soaking up the farm around the map with his extremely passive play style. People tend to look at players who took a break / went away from the scene with rose tinted glasses, but forget that they took the break for a reason - they were horribly underperforming. Qojqva was great during/before TI3 days, but he has been consistently mediocre/sub par afterwards, aside from Liquid's respectable TI4 performance. He took a break so he could cocentrate on his final exams. Thats an important thing in germany, you know? | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:49 TanGeng wrote: Well, considering DiG has used a lot of offensive warding to gain map awareness and control, while being aggressive in the qualifier, it seems to suggest that they are indeed trying to have map control.I don't know what you are watching but what I've seen is Qojqva teams do not exert the extent of map control that their relative strength to opposing team would suggest. That's leaving power projection on the table. There are certain heros where he is decent on pressuring the enemy team, but there are too many where he's in a overly safe position. Not sure if you are watching at all. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:26 Dracolich70 wrote: Well, considering DiG has used a lot of offensive warding to gain map awareness and control, while being aggressive in the qualifier, it seems to suggest that they are indeed trying to have map control. Not sure if you are watching at all. I don't see it. Warding and knowledge can be used to farm efficiently or deny farm. Using it to walk up to the enemy and killing them constantly is different finding a safer place to farm. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:01 Spicy_Curry wrote: Your post seems to go in all directions, and nowhere.Who is going to assert pressure? The piss poor supporting cast or Qojqva? We know Qojqva wont do it. Most of the time the other members of his team are equal networth to the cores on the opposing team nullifying the advantage. 1) No one is asseting pressure. 2) His other team mates has equal networth of opposing teams cores. 3) Nullifying advantage. Considering that Qojqva has played a lot of Invoker, Tinker, batrider, it seems to suggest that he plays heroes that does assert pressure. Considering the new team has a winrate of 64% across 52 games, it seems to suggest they are quite successful in general. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:31 TanGeng wrote: Map control can be applied in various ways. That is the nature of map control is you are controlling the map, to do what you want, either being aggressive, or getting essential items, without being slaughtered for it, thus nullifying the opposition in different ways, either by letting them run around needlessly without gaining anything, or suffocating them. They didn't succeed too well against Newbee and later CoL.I don't see it. Warding and knowledge can be used to farm efficiently or deny farm. Using it to walk up to the enemy and killing them constantly is different finding a safer place to farm. Needless to say, if you are warding offensively, you are in enemy territory, thus trying to be aggressive. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily. If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that. But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions.Again, Qojqva is very much a player that needs his team making space for his farm, and for the game to end fast enough that his late game issues can't come up. Waaaaay too many Tinker/Liquid games ended with him being 6-slotted with bad items for the situation, or him double feeding with an Aegis a minute after Roshing, or spending an entire early game farming only to walk out with a BKB/Linkens/Euls Shadow Fiend and still getting caught out and dying easily. If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that. But again, I haven't seen many No Diggity games recently, so maybe he has improved drastically. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:54 Dracolich70 wrote: Needs farm, but yet needs the team to end quickly, because he has late game issues while being 6-slotted, seems to go in opposite directions. ? Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead. When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote: Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players.? Not really. Given the right space, he'll probably be 5-10k ahead of everyone else by 25-30 minutes and can dominate off of sheer gold/exp lead, so they can dominate off that lead, making the sacrifice(if it is that) worth it. When, or if, the game goes late enough that the gold gap becomes less impactful, he'll probably do less with his farm than other good carries. Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm. Here is from versus Fnatic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiAcExdWMAA0fDQ.jpg:large That is pretty impactful and participating for a Tinker. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On May 10 2016 03:47 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Yeah, he is great as a person, honestly. Always enjoyed his casting but his pro player career ended with mtw. He tilts easily as a captain and doesn't show much skills nowadays. After coming back from a long break, he helped lead his team to two qualifications, Dreamleague and Epicenter, and they nearly qualified for the Manilla Major, beating several major teams such as Vega in the process. Does he have room for improvement? Of course he does, so does the whole team. But to say he's bad is ludicrous. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:43 nojok wrote: Most invited team are probably happy with their players, until they reshuffle, where they show they are no longer happy with some of their players.Is he good? Maybe. Very good? No. I can't think of any team invited to the major who would have him rather than their current mid. Reality is not confined by your imagination, though. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:04 Dracolich70 wrote: Seems like a good quality to be ahead 5-10k by 25-30 mins, given the right space. Most good teams try to do that for their mid players. Gold lead being less impactful is the nature of the game, situations or strategies, and how successful you were in doing the best with your timings. That is team aspects as well as being more successful than your opposing team, plus rubberband and all players having farm. Here is from versus Fnatic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiAcExdWMAA0fDQ.jpg:large That is pretty impactful and participating for a Tinker. So given Diggity is scoring kills, Qojqva is highly involved. But this doesn't actually tell me whether or not he's pulling his weight in "carrying the tempo" and asserting map control. Dota statistics aren't even at the level of basketball in terms of context based statistical evaluation. And tinker game are generally outliers because of how distinct that strategy is. I'm watching his Invoker games. Are you seeing his farming patterns and tower pushing positioning? I just don't see the positioning so aggressive as to be asserting his team's strength rather than simply using it to farm. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:51 hunter_x wrote: I don't think they actually know what they are talking about.I never understood people saying qojqva soaks up to much farm. He is a carry/ Mid player, its his fucking Job in the team. Other caries do the same, its not like he is always way ahead in networth. I mean he farms creeps and when there are teamfights he is there. Depends on the hero and time in the game of course. But he does his Job. When he played slardar, he participated in almost every fight, when he plays shadow fiend he farms more. Thats the Nature of the hero, so i really dont get the complaints. And from what i saw in most diggity games, his late game decision making is good enough. Well i guess there are always haters. In my opinion sumail is overrated as fuck too. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:52 TanGeng wrote: Actually it does show he is pulling his weight in carrying the tempo, when he has scored kills. What would it otherwise be? Usually Tinker is used for split pushing, farming, and he sits with 9/2/7, while having a Bloodstone(meaning he intend to participate), Eth blade, and a lvl 5 Dagon to finish off players with burst. If you watched the game, you would know that he did pull his weight.So given Diggity is scoring kills, Qojqva is highly involved. But this doesn't actually tell me whether or not he's pulling his weight in "carrying the tempo" and asserting map control. Dota statistics aren't even at the level of basketball in terms of context based statistical evaluation. And tinker game are generally outliers because of how distinct that strategy is. I'm watching his Invoker games. Are you seeing his farming patterns and tower pushing positioning? I just don't see the positioning so aggressive as to be asserting his team's strength rather than simply using it to farm. Not sure what Invoker games you watch. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:51 hunter_x wrote: I never understood people saying qojqva soaks up to much farm. He is a carry/ Mid player, its his fucking Job in the team. Other caries do the same, its not like he is always way ahead in networth. I mean he farms creeps and when there are teamfights he is there. Depends on the hero and time in the game of course. But he does his Job. When he played slardar, he participated in almost every fight, when he plays shadow fiend he farms more. Thats the Nature of the hero, so i really dont get the complaints. And from what i saw in most diggity games, his late game decision making is good enough. Well i guess there are always haters. In my opinion sumail is overrated as fuck too. Again, his favourite BKB/Linkens/Euls (and I think Butterfly) Shadow Fiend build where he's shit scared of dying, and ends up getting caught out of position and dying anyway. Those Slark games on TT where he'd play passively for 30 minutes. All those games where he'd double feed a minute after getting Aegis. Half the problem on Team Tinker was that Qojqva would have the #1 farm priority, and wouldn't do anything with his gold lead until the enemy team was in a comfortable position to just kill him. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
You could apply the same things to EE, where it seems to be more suitable. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 10 2016 07:23 Dracolich70 wrote: TTs stats seems to indicate a somewhat successful team, despite what you try to indicate. You could apply the same things to EE, where it seems to be more suitable. And I quote: If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that. And despite all the issues that Cloud9 EE had, he also had a DotA mind that innovated quite a few things. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2016 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote: Not sure why you try to look past that TT were relatively successful, which doesn't seem to go hand in hand with what you are saying about him, and team.. So why are you trying to reiterate a quote that does nothing?And I quote: And despite all the issues that Cloud9 EE had, he also had a DotA mind that innovated quite a few things. Again, what you are saying concerning Qojqva seems to be more suitable on EE. Not that it helped he got a better captain in PPY. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 10 2016 07:06 Dracolich70 wrote: Actually it does show he is pulling his weight in carrying the tempo, when he has scored kills. What would it otherwise be? Usually Tinker is used for split pushing, farming, and he sits with 9/2/7, while having a Bloodstone(meaning he intend to participate), Eth blade, and a lvl 5 Dagon to finish off players with burst. If you watched the game, you would know that he did pull his weight. Not sure what Invoker games you watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oomfzc8sU4 Go look at this game they just played. Qojqva literally shuffled between jungle and ancient camps between 10-20 when NewBee took the game away from his team and he arrive late and died in the only excursion out of his jungle during that time. I don't really want to waste any more time arguing with you if you don't want to understand where I'm coming from. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: If he had a good captain, or team, behind him telling him when to back off or when he's making bad decisions, he could probably grow into a much more all-around player, but he hasn't had that. this one pretty much. he showed great potential on mouz but stayed way to long on liquid and tinker who both had extreme stability and leadership issues. if he had a good team to grow in like fata, he may have developed into a top level player, unfortunately he played with random 5 man stacks. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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