[ESL One] Manila 2016 - Day 2

[ESL One] Manila 2016 - Day 2 - Page 92

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Nyan

Germany1931 Posts

April 23 2016 17:23 GMT

#1821

just no TL vs Secret. I would want both in finals.

just astral the glimpse please..

TomatoBisque

United States6290 Posts

April 23 2016 17:23 GMT

#1822

alright this is over

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22212 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1823

PLD trying his hardest

Faruko

Chile34173 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1824

this is over, bye bye secret

HammerKick

France6190 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1825

Empire vs Liquid.

Zea!

9589 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1826

That Ls pick.... LOL

TRAP[yoo]

Hungary6026 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1827

the secret is out?

Loanshark

China3094 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1828

It's okay guys Secret was slumping before Shanghai as well

Vertical

Indonesia4317 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1829

they can SNIFF !!!

bardtown

England2313 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1830

It's official. Secret has too many NA players to win games now

haduken

Australia8267 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1831

disappointing

LennX

4568 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1832

The Empire strikes back!!!

lolnoty

United States7166 Posts

April 23 2016 17:24 GMT

#1833

On April 24 2016 02:18 babysimba wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 24 2016 02:10 lolnoty wrote:

On April 24 2016 02:05 babysimba wrote:

On April 24 2016 02:02 lolnoty wrote:

On April 24 2016 02:00 babysimba wrote:

On April 24 2016 01:56 lolnoty wrote:

On April 24 2016 01:52 babysimba wrote:

On April 24 2016 01:49 lolnoty wrote:

On April 24 2016 01:47 babysimba wrote:

On April 24 2016 01:45 lolnoty wrote:
[quote]
it doesn't shut down an OD in lane with wisp

Wisp will never ever be able to refil OD's hude mana pool. Zero mana OD is just a creep that can farm and can't tp around to help.

that's true later on but from level 1, 2, 3 it wouldnt matter, and then at level 7 why would you want to sit in mid lane as nyx? you want the stun to gank

Why do you need to gank much when you are shutting down the opponent most important carry? OD cannot recover from a failed lane. He can't jungle. Nyx just stick to OD like glue, it doesn't matter if he rotates or you appearing on enemy's map

So you think if nyx did no damage, he would get OD to no mana (and full hp) which makes OD... go back to his tower and not do anything? the burn doesn't matter before level 4 and at level 4 how does it stop him from last hitting

Go calculate the mana pool of OD and the damage done to him with mana burn. OD can't even stay in lane once nyx hits 5. I played this matchup countless of times. Too lazy to continue this discussion

yeah but OD just lets him get mana burns off and stays at max HP because of wisp, and then he just keeps last hitting

Yea then? They have a useless mid hero that only right clicks for 90 damage, last hit 4 creeps per 30sec, can't join teamfight. Nyx can just rotate off and do shit elsewhere. Maxing mana burn doesn't mean you can't gank. You only have say less 150 dmg per full combo. You actually deal more damage if you are ganking a int hero.

No, a nyx at level 7 with lv 4 mana burn doesn't rotate off and do other things. You're in a world of level 9-10 which isn't where we started with this. He does other things by leveling stun and doing what he did this game, which is rotate off at level 7 with stun.

What teamfight is happening at laning stage that OD needs to join if nyx is sitting mid with level 4 mana burn at level 7? He's going to sit there at full hp no mana last hitting like nothing is happening, then at level 9-10 Empire hasn't done anything and lost because their entire lineup needs nyx to get vision for NP so they can do things against Beastmaster's Hawk

Tell me why I can't gank at lvl 7 when i can get 2 casts of mana burn off when killing someone. Tell me why I can't rotate away once I burn off OD's mana completely. And you seem to have an impression that OD is a hero that has impact by just hitting creeps. He is not even invoker where he can easily push an empty mid lane.

And you don't need to rotate if you are really shutting down their pos1 hard enough. This game obviously is different since he went a different skill build, can't win lane and is forced to rotate off like it or not.

OD's goal in lane is to hit creeps, you said that nyx would do better to get level 4 manaburn at level 7 to prevent him hitting creeps. (or "shut him down") I'm saying that in no way works, because:
1)OD will hit the creeps with no mana. his mana doesn't matter, he will be full health and no mana because wisp + tango. having no mana and full HP won't make OD stop hitting creeps in the laning phase
2) nyx that has level 4 mana burn and level 1 stun is wors than level 4 stun and level 1 mana burn for the purpose of moving off to gank with NP. no level 4 burn level 1 stun is not good damage against a beastmaster
3) why would you level burn to 4 at level 7 just so you can move off of lane? what's even the point? you get him to low HP and move off to do objectively less damage?

I'm not evaluating ANYTHING past just you saying that level 4 mana burn at level 7 was better than stun, not OD's value or burn's strength lategame.