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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
On June 05 2015 01:17 Thetwinmasters wrote: the year is 2015 and tournaments still use shitty single elim formats woo It always good to has single elimination tournament once in awhile, obv not the stupid ESL seeding shit format to single elimination. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
On June 05 2015 01:17 Thetwinmasters wrote: the year is 2015 and tournaments still use shitty single elim formats woo rofl, this is the real format, not that terrible loser brackets format. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On June 05 2015 02:19 Faruko wrote: rofl, this is the real format, not that terrible loser brackets format. It really is. No winner's bracket advantage for grand finals has always been because of a logistical and entertainment value reason, related in no way to actual competitive fairness. Single elim doesn't have that problem at all. The issue with single elim is making sure the seeding is as close to accurate as possible. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
On June 05 2015 02:33 hariooo wrote: It really is. No winner's bracket advantage for grand finals has always been because of a logistical and entertainment value reason, related in no way to actual competitive fairness. Single elim doesn't have that problem at all. The issue with single elim is making sure the seeding is as close to accurate as possible. Thats a problem, but that is also the beauty of it. Of course you would love to have a winners with the best teams, but its also amazing to have an anticipated final or even the X team that beat the odds and managed to win against much better teams, and eliminate them from the tournament. It helps to write much better stories too | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On June 05 2015 03:18 Faruko wrote: Thats a problem, but that is also the beauty of it. Of course you would love to have a winners with the best teams, but its also amazing to have an anticipated final or even the X team that beat the odds and managed to win against much better teams, and eliminate them from the tournament. It helps to write much better stories too With the games you save from not having loser's bracket matches I'd really like single elim tournaments to be bo7 or at least bo5 even at the early stages though. bo3 this tournament is eh. Losing a bo3 happens and it's why having a loser's run is nice for a good team to crawl their way back up. Losing a bo5 or 7 is more definitive. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 05 2015 03:42 Faruko wrote: That too, Bo5 would be awesome, but i dont know about a Bo7 on finals, that could take ages. WPC Ace grand finals were Bo7, it only took a day with a break mid-series. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
On June 05 2015 03:43 lolfail9001 wrote: WPC Ace grand finals were Bo7, it only took a day with a break mid-series. the break was right before game 7 actually since ig wanted to get their shit together so they didn't choke a 3-0 lead | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
bo7s are way to long though i think most people can agree on that. | ||
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Reson
530 Posts
On June 05 2015 02:33 hariooo wrote: It really is. No winner's bracket advantage for grand finals has always been because of a logistical and entertainment value reason, related in no way to actual competitive fairness. Single elim doesn't have that problem at all. The issue with single elim is making sure the seeding is as close to accurate as possible. That's why we have the group stage that gives us the seeding. Some clueless people like to call it meaningless though cause they "only eliminate 1 team from 5" while completely overlooking the fact that it sets the bracket for single elimination. Seeding Stage into Single Elimination is one of the best format for tournaments outside of Majors. Double elimination gives us a more precise ranking of the top 8. | ||
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Reson
530 Posts
On June 05 2015 04:13 Thetwinmasters wrote: the break was right before game 7 actually since ig wanted to get their shit together so they didn't choke a 3-0 lead The break was before game 4 for lunch wasn't it? | ||
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DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
On June 05 2015 04:47 Reson wrote: The break was before game 4 for lunch wasn't it? The one that DK won? Yes. 3-0 lunch break into 4-0 for 4-3. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On June 05 2015 04:47 Reson wrote: The break was before game 4 for lunch wasn't it? I think they have two breaks. One for lunch which was a 2 hour break(hao needed to see the police for something, I couldn't recall) and then the average 30minute break after game 6 for dinner | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
On June 05 2015 05:02 shad2810 wrote: I think they have two breaks. One for lunch which was a 2 hour break(hao needed to see the police for something, I couldn't recall) and then the average 30minute break after game 6 for dinner 30 minute break after g6 wasn't for dinner it was to get ig's shit together | ||
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Nyan
Germany1931 Posts
On June 05 2015 02:19 Faruko wrote: rofl, this is the real format, not that terrible loser brackets format. With a LB you decide the best teams. Without a LB you only decide the best team. | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
On June 05 2015 04:42 HighTimeDotA wrote: why must everyone want the same format for all tournaments? bo7s are way to long though i think most people can agree on that. Not when the average game length is 25min stompage. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On June 05 2015 05:18 Nyan wrote: With a LB you decide the best teams. Without a LB you only decide the best team. I mean I agree with this in a fighting game context where they always run a bracket reset in GF's but as long as dota 2 doesn't do this (for justifiable reasons) I'm always going to think single elim is better for this game (once again given proper seeding). | ||
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Evander Berry Wall
United States1137 Posts
On June 05 2015 05:18 Nyan wrote: With a LB you decide the best teams. Without a LB you only decide the best team. Well, in a single elimination bracket the lowest unique position is 2nd. In a double elimination bracket, the lowest unique position is 4th. In the incredibly scarce triple elimination bracket, the lowest unique position is 6th. In a round robin is there is of course no real boundary, and potentially nothing but unique positions or a majority of participants in a tie. Notice how it's never 3rd? Anyhow. the value of the tournament format depends on what you want out of it. I personally put higher priority on a thorough comparison of skill, which is a reason that a single elimination is like the worst thing for me. EDIT: Alternatively, a round robin with only bo1 matches is pretty bad. It's also worse if instead of a full round robin it is instead sub-divided into arbitrary groups. And at this point, I have described every element of this tournament's format. Hah. | ||
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