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I didn't watch the last two series and I have to say, I am surprised that both C9 and Empire won
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On June 06 2015 04:26 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 03:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:44 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:30 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:14 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:09 Sn0_Man wrote:
No they werent rofl
find me another tournament with BASELINE 30% packet loss EVERY GAME spiking higher most games. Even ignoring D2L, these are EG's results in the two months before DAC: 4th at BTS 2 3rd/4th at Dota Pit Basically everyone on EG said that this was EG's worst period. That's why the roster change occurred. They were definitely not > everyone else late 2014. EG's results post TI4 up to DAC: 1st WEC 2nd ESL One 1st Starladder 9 1st DreamLeague 4th Summit 4th DotaPit 3rd D2L Name one team with better results than them. Oh wait, that would be VG. I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.' In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic. What are you even trying to argue? VG and EG had the best results in this six-month period and that explains why Secret 15-0'd DAC group stages and destroyed every Chinese team other than VG? No, I said it's the same 3-4 teams doing well, with region being irrelevant. Secret stepped it up late 2014, Newbee collapsed quite incredibly. And VG, EG, C9 are still top teams. Except it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well. The same 3-4 teams doing well would be Alliance and Na'Vi still being at the top of the scene, VG being as irrelevant as they were before TI 4, and Fear still without a major championship in Dota 2. It'd be DK and EG never rising, IG never falling, Malaysian/Singaporean teams at the top of SEA, and Newbee never winning a TI. Team-based analyses have little value to me because they are completely incapable of explaining, for example, TI 4 results, where VG and Newbee - two teams everyone considered below DK, iG, and EG - took top 2. They're completely incapable of explaining why Chinese teams have won 0/4 tournaments after patch 6.84. They're completely useless for trying to think about why the West crumbled during TI 2 and during TI 4, and why China failed to make top 3 in TI 3. Lol Alliance and Na'vi what the fuck. Two years ago, Alliance, Na'Vi, and Orange/Tongfu were the three best teams up to the end of 2013. At the start of 2014, EG, DK, and IG became the three best teams, which lasted till TI 4. At TI 4, Newbee, VG, and EG became the three best teams, which lasted till DAC. At DAC, Secret, VG, and EG were the three best teams, and this is the present top 3 ranking, except you have to put Empire alongside EG. The longest a team has stayed in the top 3 is 1.5 years - EG - and Na'Vi in case you want to go back to 2012. Every other team went out of the rotation in <1 year. It's not the 'same 3-4 teams doing well.' It's a different set of 3 teams every year.
Yes, because the same 3-4 teams doing well means that "the same 3-4 teams will do well until the end of time".
Your leaps of logic are astounding.
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On June 06 2015 06:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 04:26 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:44 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:30 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:14 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
Even ignoring D2L, these are EG's results in the two months before DAC:
4th at BTS 2
3rd/4th at Dota Pit
Basically everyone on EG said that this was EG's worst period. That's why the roster change occurred.
They were definitely not > everyone else late 2014. EG's results post TI4 up to DAC: 1st WEC 2nd ESL One 1st Starladder 9 1st DreamLeague 4th Summit 4th DotaPit 3rd D2L Name one team with better results than them. Oh wait, that would be VG. I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.' In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic. What are you even trying to argue? VG and EG had the best results in this six-month period and that explains why Secret 15-0'd DAC group stages and destroyed every Chinese team other than VG? No, I said it's the same 3-4 teams doing well, with region being irrelevant. Secret stepped it up late 2014, Newbee collapsed quite incredibly. And VG, EG, C9 are still top teams. Except it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well. The same 3-4 teams doing well would be Alliance and Na'Vi still being at the top of the scene, VG being as irrelevant as they were before TI 4, and Fear still without a major championship in Dota 2. It'd be DK and EG never rising, IG never falling, Malaysian/Singaporean teams at the top of SEA, and Newbee never winning a TI. Team-based analyses have little value to me because they are completely incapable of explaining, for example, TI 4 results, where VG and Newbee - two teams everyone considered below DK, iG, and EG - took top 2. They're completely incapable of explaining why Chinese teams have won 0/4 tournaments after patch 6.84. They're completely useless for trying to think about why the West crumbled during TI 2 and during TI 4, and why China failed to make top 3 in TI 3. Lol Alliance and Na'vi what the fuck. Two years ago, Alliance, Na'Vi, and Orange/Tongfu were the three best teams up to the end of 2013. At the start of 2014, EG, DK, and IG became the three best teams, which lasted till TI 4. At TI 4, Newbee, VG, and EG became the three best teams, which lasted till DAC. At DAC, Secret, VG, and EG were the three best teams, and this is the present top 3 ranking, except you have to put Empire alongside EG. The longest a team has stayed in the top 3 is 1.5 years - EG - and Na'Vi in case you want to go back to 2012. Every other team went out of the rotation in <1 year. It's not the 'same 3-4 teams doing well.' It's a different set of 3 teams every year. Yes, because the same 3-4 teams doing well means that "the same 3-4 teams will do well until the end of time". Your leaps of logic are astounding.
Look at the post you responded to, and then think about what "it's just the same 3-4 teams doing well" argues in that context. There's no leaps of logic; there's your words and what they stand for.
Regions matter precisely because it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well all the time. In every given period there are a set of top teams. But which teams get into that set are a function of regional parity during that period. When the West is on top, it's Western teams. When China is on top, it's Chinese teams. SEA rarely/never makes it onto the list.
Presently, the top 4 teams - EG, Empire, VG, Secret - is West favored - with 75% Western teams. And indeed, the West is ahead.
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On June 06 2015 07:15 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 04:26 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:44 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:30 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
EG's results post TI4 up to DAC:
1st WEC
2nd ESL One
1st Starladder 9
1st DreamLeague
4th Summit
4th DotaPit
3rd D2L
Name one team with better results than them. Oh wait, that would be VG. I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.' In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic. What are you even trying to argue? VG and EG had the best results in this six-month period and that explains why Secret 15-0'd DAC group stages and destroyed every Chinese team other than VG? No, I said it's the same 3-4 teams doing well, with region being irrelevant. Secret stepped it up late 2014, Newbee collapsed quite incredibly. And VG, EG, C9 are still top teams. Except it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well. The same 3-4 teams doing well would be Alliance and Na'Vi still being at the top of the scene, VG being as irrelevant as they were before TI 4, and Fear still without a major championship in Dota 2. It'd be DK and EG never rising, IG never falling, Malaysian/Singaporean teams at the top of SEA, and Newbee never winning a TI. Team-based analyses have little value to me because they are completely incapable of explaining, for example, TI 4 results, where VG and Newbee - two teams everyone considered below DK, iG, and EG - took top 2. They're completely incapable of explaining why Chinese teams have won 0/4 tournaments after patch 6.84. They're completely useless for trying to think about why the West crumbled during TI 2 and during TI 4, and why China failed to make top 3 in TI 3. Lol Alliance and Na'vi what the fuck. Two years ago, Alliance, Na'Vi, and Orange/Tongfu were the three best teams up to the end of 2013. At the start of 2014, EG, DK, and IG became the three best teams, which lasted till TI 4. At TI 4, Newbee, VG, and EG became the three best teams, which lasted till DAC. At DAC, Secret, VG, and EG were the three best teams, and this is the present top 3 ranking, except you have to put Empire alongside EG. The longest a team has stayed in the top 3 is 1.5 years - EG - and Na'Vi in case you want to go back to 2012. Every other team went out of the rotation in <1 year. It's not the 'same 3-4 teams doing well.' It's a different set of 3 teams every year. Yes, because the same 3-4 teams doing well means that "the same 3-4 teams will do well until the end of time". Your leaps of logic are astounding. Look at the post you responded to, and then think about what "it's just the same 3-4 teams doing well" argues in that context. There's no leaps of logic; there's your words and what they stand for. Regions matter precisely because it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well all the time. In every given period there are a set of top teams. But which teams get into that set are contingent on regional parity.
- Makes a massive rant about teams in 6.83 and 6.84
- Starts talking about 6.78
Just Azarkon things.
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On June 06 2015 07:21 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:15 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 06:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 04:26 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:44 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:30 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.'
In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic. What are you even trying to argue? VG and EG had the best results in this six-month period and that explains why Secret 15-0'd DAC group stages and destroyed every Chinese team other than VG? No, I said it's the same 3-4 teams doing well, with region being irrelevant. Secret stepped it up late 2014, Newbee collapsed quite incredibly. And VG, EG, C9 are still top teams. Except it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well. The same 3-4 teams doing well would be Alliance and Na'Vi still being at the top of the scene, VG being as irrelevant as they were before TI 4, and Fear still without a major championship in Dota 2. It'd be DK and EG never rising, IG never falling, Malaysian/Singaporean teams at the top of SEA, and Newbee never winning a TI. Team-based analyses have little value to me because they are completely incapable of explaining, for example, TI 4 results, where VG and Newbee - two teams everyone considered below DK, iG, and EG - took top 2. They're completely incapable of explaining why Chinese teams have won 0/4 tournaments after patch 6.84. They're completely useless for trying to think about why the West crumbled during TI 2 and during TI 4, and why China failed to make top 3 in TI 3. Lol Alliance and Na'vi what the fuck. Two years ago, Alliance, Na'Vi, and Orange/Tongfu were the three best teams up to the end of 2013. At the start of 2014, EG, DK, and IG became the three best teams, which lasted till TI 4. At TI 4, Newbee, VG, and EG became the three best teams, which lasted till DAC. At DAC, Secret, VG, and EG were the three best teams, and this is the present top 3 ranking, except you have to put Empire alongside EG. The longest a team has stayed in the top 3 is 1.5 years - EG - and Na'Vi in case you want to go back to 2012. Every other team went out of the rotation in <1 year. It's not the 'same 3-4 teams doing well.' It's a different set of 3 teams every year. Yes, because the same 3-4 teams doing well means that "the same 3-4 teams will do well until the end of time". Your leaps of logic are astounding. Look at the post you responded to, and then think about what "it's just the same 3-4 teams doing well" argues in that context. There's no leaps of logic; there's your words and what they stand for. Regions matter precisely because it's not the same 3-4 teams doing well all the time. In every given period there are a set of top teams. But which teams get into that set are contingent on regional parity. - Makes a massive rant about teams in 6.83 and 6.84 - Starts talking about 6.78 Just Azarkon things.
Why would I rant about teams in 6.83 and 6.84? I enjoy the change.
All I'm saying is that Chinese teams have been performing pretty terrible on it; it's the first time we've had three Western teams in the top 4.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:14 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:09 Sn0_Man wrote:
No they werent rofl
find me another tournament with BASELINE 30% packet loss EVERY GAME spiking higher most games. Even ignoring D2L, these are EG's results in the two months before DAC: 4th at BTS 2 3rd/4th at Dota Pit Basically everyone on EG said that this was EG's worst period. That's why the roster change occurred. They were definitely not > everyone else late 2014. EG's results post TI4 up to DAC: 1st WEC 2nd ESL One 1st Starladder 9 1st DreamLeague 4th Summit 4th DotaPit 3rd D2L Name one team with better results than them. Oh wait, that would be VG. I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.' In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic.
I'd argue newbee was better post ti4 until dac than both vg and eg
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On June 06 2015 10:55 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 03:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:22 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 06 2015 03:14 Azarkon wrote:On June 06 2015 03:09 Sn0_Man wrote:
No they werent rofl
find me another tournament with BASELINE 30% packet loss EVERY GAME spiking higher most games. Even ignoring D2L, these are EG's results in the two months before DAC: 4th at BTS 2 3rd/4th at Dota Pit Basically everyone on EG said that this was EG's worst period. That's why the roster change occurred. They were definitely not > everyone else late 2014. EG's results post TI4 up to DAC: 1st WEC 2nd ESL One 1st Starladder 9 1st DreamLeague 4th Summit 4th DotaPit 3rd D2L Name one team with better results than them. Oh wait, that would be VG. I don't think you understand the difference between 'EG and VG had the best results among Western teams after TI 4' and 'EG and VG were above everyone else after TI 4.' In any given period, there's a ranking of teams according to results, and two teams at the top of that ranking. This is a straw man. Yes, the two teams that won almost every premier and major tournament from post-TI4 to DAC were not, in fact, ahead of everyone else post-TI4 to DAC. Classic Azarkon logic. I'd argue newbee was better post ti4 until dac than both vg and eg
I keep seeing this but who were they competing against?
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can't wait for tonight. go secret
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
I only come here for Azarkon, seriously, he's on cue in every tournament, dedicated.
It's a shame gosugamers forums are down, meltdowns would happen.
I love the outrage he causes when its about east vs west.
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On June 05 2015 15:55 Kuroeeah wrote:
Im sorry toffees but your camera work is the worst.
Such a bad showing for me. I knew id be getting no sleep fornthree days and took the risk. Bad idea. I was off, I felt like everything was behind where it should have been by about 5 seconds. Plus i couldnt talk at all apparently glimmer clape.. Sigh.
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EPT
