On July 22 2014 05:56 FiWiFaKi wrote: I'll quickly share my thoughts on why this finals and tournament didn't do it for me.
Obviously like other people mentioned, Newbee and Vici aren't the most hype teams and the games weren't very intense. But I think what really mattered to me, is that before TI4, they were not looking solid. Vici losing to Fnatic, not really going far, Newbee still looking good but being bested by DK and iG relatively frequently... I can't call them the best teams in the world just because they have won TI. Their performance before hasn't shown it, so if they keep demolishing everyone for the next 4-6 months, then sure, I'll be happy for Newbee, and really say this was the start of something huge for them, but if Newbee just goes to disband since they all just made $1,000,000 USD, then there is this void of a champion to me.
That's the main thing that did it for me, don't know if anyone else really feels this way.
IIRC when NB were formed they all signed 2 years contracts so rather no disbanand soon
Doesn't matter, if one of them decides to retire that's pretty much it. Xiao8's pretty much done everything at this point, there's no reason for Director 8 to stick around.
More money and more prestige, Dota players, especially in China, don't have many other skills. I guess if he could get a job as a coach or analyst if he doesn't like the grind anymore but imo it is very alluring to try to with TI5 when you have a great lineup and team that you know is a contender.
Na'Vi, iG and Alliance all came back before they knew the TI4 prize pool would be absurd. I would be really surprised if anyone in NB retires.
Director 8 is pretty fucking loaded with money at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired.
I reckon that he probably wants to stick around just to play more DotA. It's not like we know of a huge thing he could be rushing into after he retires anyway.
On July 22 2014 05:56 FiWiFaKi wrote: I'll quickly share my thoughts on why this finals and tournament didn't do it for me.
Obviously like other people mentioned, Newbee and Vici aren't the most hype teams and the games weren't very intense. But I think what really mattered to me, is that before TI4, they were not looking solid. Vici losing to Fnatic, not really going far, Newbee still looking good but being bested by DK and iG relatively frequently... I can't call them the best teams in the world just because they have won TI. Their performance before hasn't shown it, so if they keep demolishing everyone for the next 4-6 months, then sure, I'll be happy for Newbee, and really say this was the start of something huge for them, but if Newbee just goes to disband since they all just made $1,000,000 USD, then there is this void of a champion to me.
That's the main thing that did it for me, don't know if anyone else really feels this way.
IIRC when NB were formed they all signed 2 years contracts so rather no disbanand soon
Doesn't matter, if one of them decides to retire that's pretty much it. Xiao8's pretty much done everything at this point, there's no reason for Director 8 to stick around.
More money and more prestige, Dota players, especially in China, don't have many other skills. I guess if he could get a job as a coach or analyst if he doesn't like the grind anymore but imo it is very alluring to try to with TI5 when you have a great lineup and team that you know is a contender.
Na'Vi, iG and Alliance all came back before they knew the TI4 prize pool would be absurd. I would be really surprised if anyone in NB retires.
Director 8 is pretty fucking loaded with money at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired.
On July 22 2014 05:48 disciple wrote: So the scene will be fairly fucked up again in the next 3 or so months because everyone will disband/retire/form new teams. I wanna be honest - I dont care about Newbie at all but if valve keep up the current qualification system we will always have teams or even entire organisations forming around February and going deep in TI. Dunno about valve letting the scene sort itself out anymore...
Disciple, the thing is, what are you supposed to do?
Say there are 12 teams that are on top, all of the sudden 6 new teams form. In the next 3 months they become the best in the scene, absolutely crushing the previous 12 teams.
If you don't invite them, nobody will think that the best Dota 2 team is at the TI4, and people will care a lot less.
this argument didn't relaly make sense anyway since newbee is pretty much a ti3 team with 1 reshuffle
Different name, but also, lets say that happens, my argument does hold.
er i meant disciple's argument, newbee wasn't unknown or new, just a new name on old players
same deal as titan really
I wouldve been extremely happy if newbie were all new previously unknown players bursting through. Thats not my point. My argument was that reforming teams with the same ppl and have basically teams form and get into TI is kinda underwhelming to me and makes it hard to cheer for the teams. If KT rolster disband every year and the same players form new teams every year but say with fantasy or rain or snute coming and going every year would you care about a team competition where 50% or so of the teams are formed like that ? There's very little in terms of brand continuity and team fandom, which was even apparent by the miserable numbers of ingame pennants for both teams in-game
SKT sort of did that and loads of people still cheer for them
On July 22 2014 05:48 disciple wrote: So the scene will be fairly fucked up again in the next 3 or so months because everyone will disband/retire/form new teams. I wanna be honest - I dont care about Newbie at all but if valve keep up the current qualification system we will always have teams or even entire organisations forming around February and going deep in TI. Dunno about valve letting the scene sort itself out anymore...
Disciple, the thing is, what are you supposed to do?
Say there are 12 teams that are on top, all of the sudden 6 new teams form. In the next 3 months they become the best in the scene, absolutely crushing the previous 12 teams.
If you don't invite them, nobody will think that the best Dota 2 team is at the TI4, and people will care a lot less.
this argument didn't relaly make sense anyway since newbee is pretty much a ti3 team with 1 reshuffle
Different name, but also, lets say that happens, my argument does hold.
er i meant disciple's argument, newbee wasn't unknown or new, just a new name on old players
same deal as titan really
I wouldve been extremely happy if newbie were all new previously unknown players bursting through. Thats not my point. My argument was that reforming teams with the same ppl and have basically teams form and get into TI is kinda underwhelming to me and makes it hard to cheer for the teams. If KT rolster disband every year and the same players form new teams every year but say with fantasy or rain or snute coming and going every year would you care about a team competition where 50% or so of the teams are formed like that ? There's very little in terms of brand continuity and team fandom, which was even apparent by the miserable numbers of ingame pennants for both teams in-game
can agree, and it's a problem about TI for sure. it's just so pivotal for the scene, eclipsing absolutely everything else.
That's an important aspect for sure. Keeping that brand is crucial for sponsors, but since there is such a prize pool I suppose sponsors aren't top most priority, since most of these teams only have a couple.
Maybe it's why I'm such a fan of Navi, such a deep history throughout all of Dota 2.
For those of you guys who watched brood war, do you guys remember that Zero vs Jaedong semifinals where Jaedong 12 hatched 3x in a row and got rolled over?
On July 22 2014 05:51 hunter_x wrote: Very dissapointing grand finals. Last year was much better, it was so intense. also this ti lacked big storylines, nothing like liquid beating lgd at ti3. but i guess you can not blame newbee for that;) i just hope western teams step their game up next year.
Newbee's story was quite epic actually if you think of it. On the verge of being eliminated in the group stages they rally back and win enough to force a tiebreaker and then they win that. In the BO3 format, and despite some hiccups here and there they still march onward even destroying some past champions and the finally take it all.
If you'd replace TL, C9, EG or hell even Mouz, Empire with Newbee in that story then people would be all over how beautiful it is.
Seriously that attitude is just disgusting, just because your favorite team didn't win doesn't make Newbee's story any less epic.
I'm also sad that DK didn't win but hell, with the way Newbee played they fucking deserved to win and they have my respect from here on out and my support in the event DK do disband with their players retiring.
No.
The format kinda killed the storyline. Two days on the sideline would have made any finalist much less epic than seeing the story day after day build.
Sorry I have the temerity to not celebrate all things Chinese dota.
Don't know what people mean by no storyline. Newbee's road to victory was the best storyline of this tourney by far. If a western team pulled off the same thing as newbee we'd never hear the end of it for ten years and it would be part of esports lore.
On July 22 2014 05:56 FiWiFaKi wrote: I'll quickly share my thoughts on why this finals and tournament didn't do it for me.
Obviously like other people mentioned, Newbee and Vici aren't the most hype teams and the games weren't very intense. But I think what really mattered to me, is that before TI4, they were not looking solid. Vici losing to Fnatic, not really going far, Newbee still looking good but being bested by DK and iG relatively frequently... I can't call them the best teams in the world just because they have won TI. Their performance before hasn't shown it, so if they keep demolishing everyone for the next 4-6 months, then sure, I'll be happy for Newbee, and really say this was the start of something huge for them, but if Newbee just goes to disband since they all just made $1,000,000 USD, then there is this void of a champion to me.
That's the main thing that did it for me, don't know if anyone else really feels this way.
IIRC when NB were formed they all signed 2 years contracts so rather no disbanand soon
Doesn't matter, if one of them decides to retire that's pretty much it. Xiao8's pretty much done everything at this point, there's no reason for Director 8 to stick around.
More money and more prestige, Dota players, especially in China, don't have many other skills. I guess if he could get a job as a coach or analyst if he doesn't like the grind anymore but imo it is very alluring to try to with TI5 when you have a great lineup and team that you know is a contender.
Na'Vi, iG and Alliance all came back before they knew the TI4 prize pool would be absurd. I would be really surprised if anyone in NB retires.
Director 8 is pretty fucking loaded with money at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired.
Did he stop liking dota or something?
It's not that he stopped liking DotA, it's just that he's been doing it for awhile now. Unfortunately he will be highly pressured by his family to stop playing now that he has a truckload of money to his name, settle down, have kids, blah blah blah.
EPT
