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[LR] The International II - 2012 - Page 960

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 958 959 960 961 962 1179 Next
Ziken
Profile Joined August 2010
Ghana1743 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19181
On September 03 2012 07:57 ShiaoPi wrote:
Who is still with me from asia? Started watching at 1 AM now it's 7 AM and I am soooo pumped for the rest of the matches!! :D


Started watching from the navi vs lgd match, missed the first one, its 4 30 here :D
Every misfortune is a blessing in disguise.
Implenia
Profile Joined August 2012
Austria3846 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19182
On September 03 2012 07:57 ShiaoPi wrote:
Who is still with me from asia? Started watching at 1 AM now it's 7 AM and I am soooo pumped for the rest of the matches!! :D

Respect . Getting kinda sleepy.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34501 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19183
On September 03 2012 07:55 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:51 dibbaN wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:46 Shikyo wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:44 dibbaN wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:42 Firebolt145 wrote:
IMO XBOCT certainly isn't the strongest on Na`Vi. He's definitely extremely good, but not quite legendary status of Dendi/Puppey/LoH. I would even place Ars-art above XBOCT if I had to simply based on his long gaming history.

Completely agree. In fact XBOCT made several mistakes during this series, that really shows how strong players the rest are to be able to counterweigh that!

Like? I'd again like to point at game 1 where despite an AWFUL start he managed to get numerous kills and became #1 in farm in the whole game, him completely carrying in game 2 and 3, amazing farm in game 3 on a freaking Faceless Void who's not even picked ever.

It's like people completely ignore carry players. Killing heroes = you're a god. However farming well should be automatic and when you do that it's no big deal and no-skill.
Stop talking. I know NaVi, I've followed them since before DotA2. XBOCT is a great player, but is the most inconsistent of their players recently. Farming is not hard for any good carry player, it's all about the team working around you, allowing you to farm. There were several situations when he was waiting too long with the chrono. But if you want something concrete - focusing a Tide who has popped his ulti. Not killing a hero who was stuck in chrono with 20% and instead hitting DS ending up getting noone. Notice how he got hexed during the gap between his chronosphere and bkb? That's a mistake. Happened several times. Don't get me wrong, I love NaVi and they are ALL great players. It's just that XBOCT isn't up to his usual standard, maybe its nerves?

I've followed them before DotA2 as well. In fact far before Dendi even was in Na'Vi.

He sure played consistently in all 3 of these games - I just said he was the best player in the series.

Yet for some reason many carry players still fail at it especially when their team is getting crushed - This was not the case with XBOCT. This actually was the case with LGD's carry who's regarded to be a far better player - Funny isn't it?

There probably were several situations where Dendi for instance fucked up as well, getting hit by that ravage comes to mind. Making mistakes isn't as bad if the rest of your play is so good.

Well I sure wish I had a player in my team who when nervous manage to carry his team with a 11-2 score 650+ gpm 400+ cs despite making mistakes. Oh man how dreadful. And don't forget that, again, he was #1 in farm in the game Na'Vi lost despite getting decimated earlygame and being against one of the best carries in the world. In that he was the only player who actually did anything.

Look - I don't disagree that XBOCT is an AMAZING player. Just in a world where where Dendi/Puppey/LoH are S++++++ class, XBOCT is only S++ class, to me.
Moderator
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19184
On September 03 2012 07:58 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:55 Salazarz wrote:
People just have to complain about everything. There's always hundreds of whine-posts in SC2 double-elim finals because one side having an advantage in grand finals before the actual grand finals even start is not very... grand. Now Valve does it this way and lo and behold, hundreds of whine posts again.

Personally, I like this way a lot more, especially if the grand finals are played on same day as other matches. There is absolutely no reason to think that coming from winner's bracket is NOT an advantage, so it's not like teams are going to throw games or whatever. You're going to be fresher, maybe have an extra special strat saved up, have an extra chance to observe your opponents' games... it is an advantage, however small you may want to claim it is - and the finals actually start off on even footing, which is nice.

Just have single elim instead, then.

Fairness is pretty important when a million dollars is on the line. Also those people who complain don't know the format. Don't give the team that wins all their sets a disadvantage in comparison to all the others. Does that make sense to you ?


And with all that rant out of the way IG-LGD is starting, let's see what'll happen.


Why not 16 teams league format for ultimate fairness then? They had the time to do it.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19185
On September 03 2012 07:58 pyro19 wrote:
Fuck I have Class tomorrow

break your leg and stay home
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19186
Wow, so if LGD wins this (and let's say it goes to a 3rd game) they'll have to play maybe 11 (assuming the finals goes 5 game) games in a row?
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19187
I feel bad for LGD. If they win this they'll have to play 3 series in a row.
soiii
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany266 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19188
On September 03 2012 07:58 pyro19 wrote:
Fuck I have Class tomorrow

Dude. This is ESPORTS.
xPliCt
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany143 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19189
On September 03 2012 07:55 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:52 Manit0u wrote:
So, according to Bruno LGD is going to lose G1 (Morph pick).

btw. what's 'pipe' and 'drums'? Been out of DotA for quite some years.

Pipe = Khaldor's Pipe of Insight. Shield block damage.
Drums = Jjango. Upgrade from Bracer. Give speed boost vroom vroom


Pipe is a castable shield (for ur team) that blocks spell demage
Yoshi-
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany10227 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19190
On September 03 2012 07:57 Pr0wler wrote:
So LGD just finished their series in WB and immediately now they will play Bo3 in the LB... AAAAND if they win they will play Bo5 in the final. That is what ? 8-10 hours straight ?
Complete bullshit if you ask me. I will not be surprised if Na`Vi stomp them in the final, just because LGD are exhausted.

I heard chinese teams playing like entire bo11 scrims in one day. They don't get tired
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19191
heh, pretty normal picks so I'm gonna go get a few hours of sleep before watching the grand finals. brb
Brood War loyalist
WarWolf
Profile Joined August 2012
71 Posts
September 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#19192
On September 03 2012 07:55 Glowbox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:52 Manit0u wrote:
So, according to Bruno LGD is going to lose G1 (Morph pick).

btw. what's 'pipe' and 'drums'? Been out of DotA for quite some years.


They are both items.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Drum_of_Endurance

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Pipe_of_Insight


Not sure there will be more people for the final actually, in europe it will end around 6-7 AM and we are monday tomorrow. I think there will be less and less viewers
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19193
On September 03 2012 07:59 dormer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:57 ShiaoPi wrote:
Who is still with me from asia? Started watching at 1 AM now it's 7 AM and I am soooo pumped for the rest of the matches!! :D


I'm still up, I've been staying up all night and sleeping during the day just for this ^^ Time for breakfast, and still not even halfway through the day's matches!


ASIA POWER UNITE!!! SLEEP IS OVERRATED!! :D

/munching on breakfast btw
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19194
On September 03 2012 07:48 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:46 BlooDAnGeL wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:43 HolydaKing wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:41 casualman wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:41 Jetaap wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:39 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:38 FakeDeath wrote:
The finals?Winner got the advantage?

No. Just a regular Bo5.

Looks like another Chinese team is about to be eliminated next match. LGD or iG? Hm.

Wow that's beyond stupid :s. The winner to the bracket should have a 1-0 advantage :s

Obvious bias much?

No one likes extended series in MLG, but when a foreign team stands to gain, hey, why not?

WTF? Nothing to do with extended series LOL. Winner bracket teams always have an advantage in the grand finals, be it needing to win just one bo3 or having another kind of advantage like a map lead... it's the advantage of NOT having lost any games.


Valve believes that having to play extra games, and in this case if LGD wins, it would be 3 games WB finals, 2-3 games LB finals, and then 3-5 Grand Finals, all without a break, while the winner of WB gets few hours off is more than enough advantage.

Yeah well, maybe. But i don't think those progamers will get exhausted by just playing some more games. Maybe they'll reveal some tactics or special stuff but i doubt that as well.

And they do have decent breaks. Maybe not long breaks and maybe they're still in the spotlight but it's not like physically exhausting. More mentally, and yeah i'll give you that they do have mental advantage (Na'vi) now.


Did you see Puppey's reaction to playing a full Bo5 against a Chinese team? He looked completely worked just thinking about it. And players from lots of different games have said that fatigue is a factor. Look at MLG; making it through an open bracket is hard just because of the sheer number of games, not even taking into account opponent skill.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19195
On September 03 2012 07:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:55 Shikyo wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:51 dibbaN wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:46 Shikyo wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:44 dibbaN wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:42 Firebolt145 wrote:
IMO XBOCT certainly isn't the strongest on Na`Vi. He's definitely extremely good, but not quite legendary status of Dendi/Puppey/LoH. I would even place Ars-art above XBOCT if I had to simply based on his long gaming history.

Completely agree. In fact XBOCT made several mistakes during this series, that really shows how strong players the rest are to be able to counterweigh that!

Like? I'd again like to point at game 1 where despite an AWFUL start he managed to get numerous kills and became #1 in farm in the whole game, him completely carrying in game 2 and 3, amazing farm in game 3 on a freaking Faceless Void who's not even picked ever.

It's like people completely ignore carry players. Killing heroes = you're a god. However farming well should be automatic and when you do that it's no big deal and no-skill.
Stop talking. I know NaVi, I've followed them since before DotA2. XBOCT is a great player, but is the most inconsistent of their players recently. Farming is not hard for any good carry player, it's all about the team working around you, allowing you to farm. There were several situations when he was waiting too long with the chrono. But if you want something concrete - focusing a Tide who has popped his ulti. Not killing a hero who was stuck in chrono with 20% and instead hitting DS ending up getting noone. Notice how he got hexed during the gap between his chronosphere and bkb? That's a mistake. Happened several times. Don't get me wrong, I love NaVi and they are ALL great players. It's just that XBOCT isn't up to his usual standard, maybe its nerves?

I've followed them before DotA2 as well. In fact far before Dendi even was in Na'Vi.

He sure played consistently in all 3 of these games - I just said he was the best player in the series.

Yet for some reason many carry players still fail at it especially when their team is getting crushed - This was not the case with XBOCT. This actually was the case with LGD's carry who's regarded to be a far better player - Funny isn't it?

There probably were several situations where Dendi for instance fucked up as well, getting hit by that ravage comes to mind. Making mistakes isn't as bad if the rest of your play is so good.

Well I sure wish I had a player in my team who when nervous manage to carry his team with a 11-2 score 650+ gpm 400+ cs despite making mistakes. Oh man how dreadful. And don't forget that, again, he was #1 in farm in the game Na'Vi lost despite getting decimated earlygame and being against one of the best carries in the world. In that he was the only player who actually did anything.

Look - I don't disagree that XBOCT is an AMAZING player. Just in a world where where Dendi/Puppey/LoH are S++++++ class, XBOCT is only S++ class, to me.

I think I could argue that if xboct were on any team but na`vi it wouldn't work out for the better. If I said he replaced pajkatt would CLG be better? Probably not. If dendi replaced anyone they would be just as good if not better.
hootsushi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany3468 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 23:01:57
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19196
On September 03 2012 07:54 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:52 Mordiford wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:49 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:47 Mordiford wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:44 Jaksiel wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:41 casualman wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:41 Jetaap wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:39 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:38 FakeDeath wrote:
The finals?Winner got the advantage?

No. Just a regular Bo5.

Looks like another Chinese team is about to be eliminated next match. LGD or iG? Hm.

Wow that's beyond stupid :s. The winner to the bracket should have a 1-0 advantage :s

Obvious bias much?

No one likes extended series in MLG, but when a foreign team stands to gain, hey, why not?


There's a difference between extended series and giving the winner's bracket an advantage, you know. If winner's bracket has no advantage, it sort of defeats the purpose of having a winner's bracket and loser's bracket.

There is an advantage. Ask LGD if they want to play against iG in the lower bracket and then na`vi again.


Ask Navi if they'd rather get two chances in the finals or one with no actual option. Navi already beat iG.

It's an undeniable disadvantage when one team has two losses and the other team only gets one before they're eliminated.

That's such stupid reasoning jesus christ. You have losses but you have MORE WINS against TOP teams as well. It is a huge advantage that you get to rest while another team has a chance to get knocked out by iG, a team that went 13-1 in group stages including against na`vi. It's unbelievably better to play through the upper bracket all the way through and no one will ever throw. If you wanna whine, I can say that na`vi went 8-6 and overall they lost more than LGD. The advantages go in phases and this is certainly an advantage.


Once again, ask Navi if they want another match against iG, if they win they get two chances in the finals, if they lose they only get one. They would almost certainly choose to take an opportunity for more chances in the finals, which everyone else already go. These are progamers, they aren't running multiple marathons, these guys can crank out these many games in a day without too much difficulty. You can make all the arguments you want at this point but it's actually basic mathematics and logic and the reason why double elimination is double elimination.

Everyone gets 2 chances before being knocked out of the tournament. If everyone but one team gets two chances, that is unfair to that one team.

I'm only gonna say this once because this is getting stupid.

You're only arguing which advantage is better. NO SHIT HAVING 1-0 lead is better ON TOP of not having to play iG. But to say that winning over LGD now in the upper bracket is not an advantage is STUPID.

If na`vi got a 1-0 lead THEN IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR. You don't understand that they would also have played less opponents than LGD who also would only have one loss if they ended up winning the whole thing.



You are right. 1-0 lead and not having to play iG is a tremendous advantge. I totally agree with you there. Still, you have to balance out, that LGD has got a second life and Na'Vi don't. In my opinion 1 bo3 against iG doesn't equal to a second life. The fairest would be to simply give Na'Vi another life in the grand finals, but I suppose it's too much to play 2 bo3 in a grand final in dota. It's just the following question: Who do you want to give the greater advantage, because double elimination isn't completely fair. Personally, I don't think iG deserves the greater advantage, 'cause they dropped to the loser bracket and not Na'Vi.
nosliw
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2716 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19197
quick rundown of Navi vs LGD? ban/picks?
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19198
On September 03 2012 07:57 ShiaoPi wrote:
Who is still with me from asia? Started watching at 1 AM now it's 7 AM and I am soooo pumped for the rest of the matches!! :D


I need a nap... but I just know that if I try to take a 2 hour nap, I'll end up not waking up even with alarms.
ffxiv enjoyer
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
September 02 2012 23:00 GMT
#19199
On September 03 2012 07:59 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:58 pyro19 wrote:
Fuck I have Class tomorrow

break your leg and stay home


ahaha this guy gets it :D
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
September 02 2012 23:01 GMT
#19200
On September 03 2012 07:58 Doctorbeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 07:57 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:57 zul wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:55 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On September 03 2012 07:52 Manit0u wrote:
So, according to Bruno LGD is going to lose G1 (Morph pick).

btw. what's 'pipe' and 'drums'? Been out of DotA for quite some years.

Pipe = Khaldor's Pipe of Insight. Shield block damage.
Drums = Jjango. Upgrade from Bracer. Give speed boost vroom vroom

haha nice typo "Khaldor"

Zzzz Need more sleep lol


I know how you feel -.-

If I want to see these games it's going to be a late one.

Exactly, don't know if i will make it... i expect this tournament to go on for 3-4 hours.
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