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[TI3] Playoffs Day 5 - Page 4

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
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figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-11 12:00:07
August 11 2013 11:59 GMT
#61
Grand Final is best-of-five, no game advantage.
Since there is no game advantage, if Na`Vi get there they may be in a decent position to win - they've already experienced two losses and could analyze them and adapt.

Of course, the more probable option is that they will be drunk and do whatever comes to mind... and maybe still win.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
LSF
Profile Joined April 2012
469 Posts
August 11 2013 12:14 GMT
#62
On August 11 2013 20:42 ZaaaaaM wrote:
What time will the grand finals be played?


Unless they have a fixed schedule for that one, it will be anywhere between 1 and 3 hours after the LB final starts.
Namunelbo
Profile Joined June 2012
501 Posts
August 11 2013 12:18 GMT
#63
On August 11 2013 15:25 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 14:18 Namunelbo wrote:
On August 11 2013 14:15 bagels21 wrote:
On August 11 2013 14:05 babylon wrote:
On August 11 2013 13:41 opterown wrote:
i'm expecting a lot of roster shuffling and insanely weird drafts. will be interesting to see how the next major chinese tournament shapes up.

also it's about now i'm so glad a certain poster is banned.

well, he would still have to account for his repeated statement that "sea dota is the weakest," and "na'vi is the only one who can stand against alliance."

you can also laugh in his face if orange beats up na'vi and takes games off (or wins!) against alliance.

this is all, of course, contingent on how well orange does tomorrow. :3c


rofl, it would have been amazing seeing him against the whole thread again


Why has nobody funded that man/woman to the analysis desk yet?!

Need to start that KickStarter...

On August 11 2013 14:16 Tunga wrote:
On August 11 2013 13:41 opterown wrote:
i'm expecting a lot of roster shuffling and insanely weird drafts. will be interesting to see how the next major chinese tournament shapes up.

also it's about now i'm so glad a certain poster is banned.


I don't think China has ever suffered a big loss like this. I don't think shuffling will amount to anything. The scene itself needs to change and that may have to be through more tournaments, traveling overseas, and creating better circuits for new players to enter the competitive scene. They should also go deeper in exploring the game because TI3 really showed how their playstyle does not work anymore.


The fact that this loss was a collective loss rather than a individual loss says a lot...

Who knows, maybe CeSPA will be created? Since they're not performing up to their standard in both LoL and DotA.

ACE is CeSPA, if you mean the organization that the professional chinese dota teams use for rules, sanctions and tournament organization. They are very arguably one of the reasons why there was an extreme lull in competition this year.


I know you can somehow relate ACE to being their own version of CeSPA regarding ruling, sanctions and tournaments... But they are still far away from KeSPA's strict training regimen, players contract, ...
ArchDC
Profile Joined May 2011
Malaysia1996 Posts
August 11 2013 12:18 GMT
#64
So hyped for Orange vs Navi, unfortunately I think Navi is too strong... and Alliance is in a different league...
V1ctor
Profile Joined March 2011
Moldova1645 Posts
August 11 2013 12:18 GMT
#65
I just hope Na'vi will stop counterpicking the other teams and focuses on getting the better heroes for them then they will have a chance.
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
August 11 2013 12:22 GMT
#66
On August 11 2013 14:46 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 13:41 opterown wrote:
i'm expecting a lot of roster shuffling and insanely weird drafts. will be interesting to see how the next major chinese tournament shapes up.

also it's about now i'm so glad a certain poster is banned.

I can be him in spirit if you want

Don't even think about it or I'll make all the birds on the world shit on your car all day erryday. It'll never be clean again. Never.
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
August 11 2013 12:29 GMT
#67
On August 11 2013 21:14 LSF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 20:42 ZaaaaaM wrote:
What time will the grand finals be played?


Unless they have a fixed schedule for that one, it will be anywhere between 1 and 3 hours after the LB final starts.

Uhm I dare to say it will be more like between 2 and 4 hours after the LB final.
It's two games at least in the LB final, taking ~2 hours at mininum, longer if they go to lategame, also pauses in between. If we get 3 long games, 4 hours is possible
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
August 11 2013 12:33 GMT
#68
On August 11 2013 12:49 DDie wrote:
Disappointing drafts from puppey, the game we all wanted to see was chaos mode navi against methodical rock solid stable alliance.

The winner bracket finals is not the place to try and surprise the best team of the tournament, just stick with your style, that's how you won tournaments before.


imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan
Put quote here for readability
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
August 11 2013 12:33 GMT
#69
in braveheart Orange we trust!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
August 11 2013 12:39 GMT
#70
I'm hoping Orange takes it. Talk about cyndarella story
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
August 11 2013 12:49 GMT
#71
At this point it's hard to see Alliance drop 3 maps against anyone. One certainly, two possible, three unlikely. If they still had a flawless record maybe you could argue that they might crumble after a loss but it didn't seem to affect them against DK.
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
August 11 2013 12:49 GMT
#72
Wait I'm so clueless, but who was banned?

Hoping for Na'vi to pull a TI2, but I don't know if it'll happen; [A] looks so strong right now...
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
Intact
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden634 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-11 13:01:28
August 11 2013 13:00 GMT
#73

Imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan.


I feel the opposite, Puppey have been drafting questionably and his banning has been even worse. Picking up wisp for a fast push strategy while letting both Naga and KotL slip to the other team while you ban gyro. Thats hardly world class drafting
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
August 11 2013 13:12 GMT
#74
On August 11 2013 22:00 Intact wrote:

Show nested quote +
Imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan.


I feel the opposite, Puppey have been drafting questionably and his banning has been even worse. Picking up wisp for a fast push strategy while letting both Naga and KotL slip to the other team while you ban gyro. Thats hardly world class drafting


or he's just trying stuff knowing they have another chance on the grand final
Put quote here for readability
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
August 11 2013 13:21 GMT
#75
On August 11 2013 21:33 sandyph wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 12:49 DDie wrote:
Disappointing drafts from puppey, the game we all wanted to see was chaos mode navi against methodical rock solid stable alliance.

The winner bracket finals is not the place to try and surprise the best team of the tournament, just stick with your style, that's how you won tournaments before.


imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan

Puppeys drafts made no real sense to me if you look at navi themselves. DendI in non playmaker role on skywrath, wisp pick with no real plan for it just omg we got wisp. If a notoriously good drafting team like alliance let's you have wisp for free twice you have to know something is fishy. It felt to me puppey drafted right into s4s hands. Also push lineup with dendi on tide and kuro on wisp? What's wisp good for when you go for push? Kuro on tide and let dendi be dendi with a big play hero instead of a ulti bot like tide.

Look at alliances only loss, playmaker s4 on dk accomplishes nothing, while when he gets bat or puck he wins games alone for alliance almost. Game after loss he drafted himself a playmaker and just dominated. Also why not ban kotl if u go for push?
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-11 13:24:36
August 11 2013 13:24 GMT
#76
On August 11 2013 21:18 Namunelbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 15:25 rabidch wrote:
On August 11 2013 14:18 Namunelbo wrote:
On August 11 2013 14:15 bagels21 wrote:
On August 11 2013 14:05 babylon wrote:
On August 11 2013 13:41 opterown wrote:
i'm expecting a lot of roster shuffling and insanely weird drafts. will be interesting to see how the next major chinese tournament shapes up.

also it's about now i'm so glad a certain poster is banned.

well, he would still have to account for his repeated statement that "sea dota is the weakest," and "na'vi is the only one who can stand against alliance."

you can also laugh in his face if orange beats up na'vi and takes games off (or wins!) against alliance.

this is all, of course, contingent on how well orange does tomorrow. :3c


rofl, it would have been amazing seeing him against the whole thread again


Why has nobody funded that man/woman to the analysis desk yet?!

Need to start that KickStarter...

On August 11 2013 14:16 Tunga wrote:
On August 11 2013 13:41 opterown wrote:
i'm expecting a lot of roster shuffling and insanely weird drafts. will be interesting to see how the next major chinese tournament shapes up.

also it's about now i'm so glad a certain poster is banned.


I don't think China has ever suffered a big loss like this. I don't think shuffling will amount to anything. The scene itself needs to change and that may have to be through more tournaments, traveling overseas, and creating better circuits for new players to enter the competitive scene. They should also go deeper in exploring the game because TI3 really showed how their playstyle does not work anymore.


The fact that this loss was a collective loss rather than a individual loss says a lot...

Who knows, maybe CeSPA will be created? Since they're not performing up to their standard in both LoL and DotA.

ACE is CeSPA, if you mean the organization that the professional chinese dota teams use for rules, sanctions and tournament organization. They are very arguably one of the reasons why there was an extreme lull in competition this year.


I know you can somehow relate ACE to being their own version of CeSPA regarding ruling, sanctions and tournaments... But they are still far away from KeSPA's strict training regimen, players contract, ...

kespa does not require strict training regimen... that is to be enforced by the organizations themselves, which the chinese teams are already pretty good at, and ACE player contracts are enforced because of past controversies of player poaching.

it is true kespa does have better infrastructure for starcraft than dota teams, but dota is a very volatile 5 man team game and inherently harder to coach, train, and schedule for than starcraft, and chinese does not have the established esports scene anyway, and why must they? if anything, ACE should consider inviting more western teams outside of china, sending chinese teams abroad, and most importantly and not do fail scheduling that causes chinese players to be out of competition for extended periods of time
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-11 13:29:11
August 11 2013 13:24 GMT
#77
I think orange has a better shot than na'vi vs alliance, but alliance should take it all either way.

As for Na'Vis draft, at least in g2 I think that was very typical Na'Vi. And I think any other team in the world would have took a premature fight rather than lose 6 towers and gotten stomped all over the place in a na'vi pub game fashion. Alliance just knew how to play against their strat, and they always seem to know when they can take the team fights.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
August 11 2013 13:34 GMT
#78
On August 11 2013 22:21 unkkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 21:33 sandyph wrote:
On August 11 2013 12:49 DDie wrote:
Disappointing drafts from puppey, the game we all wanted to see was chaos mode navi against methodical rock solid stable alliance.

The winner bracket finals is not the place to try and surprise the best team of the tournament, just stick with your style, that's how you won tournaments before.


imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan

Puppeys drafts made no real sense to me if you look at navi themselves. DendI in non playmaker role on skywrath, wisp pick with no real plan for it just omg we got wisp. If a notoriously good drafting team like alliance let's you have wisp for free twice you have to know something is fishy. It felt to me puppey drafted right into s4s hands. Also push lineup with dendi on tide and kuro on wisp? What's wisp good for when you go for push? Kuro on tide and let dendi be dendi with a big play hero instead of a ulti bot like tide.

Look at alliances only loss, playmaker s4 on dk accomplishes nothing, while when he gets bat or puck he wins games alone for alliance almost. Game after loss he drafted himself a playmaker and just dominated. Also why not ban kotl if u go for push?


Alliance made really good decisions (And I believe will continue to do so) - they always let Wisp through - in Navi vs Alliance Alliance always picks Dire side so Navi gets first pick each game too.

Problem is, if Alliance doesn't ban Wisp, Navi HAS to take Wisp with first pick. If not, Alliance gets a free Wisp (and we know how good Alliance is with that hero). On the other hand, it seems that Navi has not wanted to waste a ban on Wisp... usually as FP one big advantage is you can get away with not banning the hero under the threat that you will take him.

If Navi bans Wisp with FP... that means that Alliance is likely getting the Lone Druid, or the Chen, or something else (or two) that they really want with their first two picks. I don't know... if I were Navi I'd probably ban out the Wisp, even with FP.
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
August 11 2013 13:37 GMT
#79
Are there any statistics on how oftne which team has played radiant / dire? Maybe even with wins/losses?
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
August 11 2013 13:39 GMT
#80
On August 11 2013 22:34 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2013 22:21 unkkz wrote:
On August 11 2013 21:33 sandyph wrote:
On August 11 2013 12:49 DDie wrote:
Disappointing drafts from puppey, the game we all wanted to see was chaos mode navi against methodical rock solid stable alliance.

The winner bracket finals is not the place to try and surprise the best team of the tournament, just stick with your style, that's how you won tournaments before.


imho puppey's draft 'make sense'
high burst magic damage on the first game and fast push on the second game

looks like puppey want to see whether these strange strats works on Alliance without letting Alliance experience the real na'vi on lan

Puppeys drafts made no real sense to me if you look at navi themselves. DendI in non playmaker role on skywrath, wisp pick with no real plan for it just omg we got wisp. If a notoriously good drafting team like alliance let's you have wisp for free twice you have to know something is fishy. It felt to me puppey drafted right into s4s hands. Also push lineup with dendi on tide and kuro on wisp? What's wisp good for when you go for push? Kuro on tide and let dendi be dendi with a big play hero instead of a ulti bot like tide.

Look at alliances only loss, playmaker s4 on dk accomplishes nothing, while when he gets bat or puck he wins games alone for alliance almost. Game after loss he drafted himself a playmaker and just dominated. Also why not ban kotl if u go for push?


Alliance made really good decisions (And I believe will continue to do so) - they always let Wisp through - in Navi vs Alliance Alliance always picks Dire side so Navi gets first pick each game too.

Problem is, if Alliance doesn't ban Wisp, Navi HAS to take Wisp with first pick. If not, Alliance gets a free Wisp (and we know how good Alliance is with that hero). On the other hand, it seems that Navi has not wanted to waste a ban on Wisp... usually as FP one big advantage is you can get away with not banning the hero under the threat that you will take him.

If Navi bans Wisp with FP... that means that Alliance is likely getting the Lone Druid, or the Chen, or something else (or two) that they really want with their first two picks. I don't know... if I were Navi I'd probably ban out the Wisp, even with FP.

I think this is the reason alliance were a bit afraid of fnatic. They have amazing wisp play so alliance doesn't have that draft advantage against them.
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