On November 30 2013 23:10 lolfail9001 wrote: I bet that if Gyro gets the farm Alliance wins this one. So Gyro gonna get smoked at least 6 times.
It....depends. If jugg/clinkz get decent farm midgame they will eat the gyro alive and then some (calldown vs jugg? lololol) so I think as long as they snowball before maybe the satanic/bfly timing it should be fine.
[A] is falling apart in these teamfights, how uncharacteristic but it might be just jugg in their face making them sad. Loda's calldown was so useless it might as well have not been used.....
I really think there should be another sheepstick from Na'Vi...if they panic and blow it on s4 or chase and blow it on EGM, the counter-initiate will be scary...
Pfff aliance really sux. There roster is really bad, they have such a limeted heropool that navi can easily counter everything, fnatic even counters alliance now. After all the teamliquid hate, grab ur pitchforks for alliancelynchinparty
On December 01 2013 00:07 ForTehDarkseid wrote: s4 has saved Alliance and has thrown the game at last minutes at the same time.
Almost a ghost of man he was.
Kinda sad, he played amazing to bring his team back in the game and then everything went to shit only because he made one mistake. Would have loved to see more games, but I'm fine with Na'Vi advancing.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME ? DID NAVI WON ? i went to get breakfast because i was freaking starving and that gamen was almost finished, and they turn it around ? jesus
On December 01 2013 00:08 govie wrote: Pfff aliance really sux. There roster is really bad, they have such a limeted heropool that navi can easily counter everything, fnatic even counters alliance now. After all the teamliquid hate, grab ur pitchforks for alliancelynchinparty
Alliance... U Suck!
At least Liquid went 1-2 against Na'Vi, Alliance got trounced 3-0!!!!
At this point I wonder if the finals will be a 3-0 as well.
On December 01 2013 00:08 govie wrote: Pfff aliance really sux. There roster is really bad, they have such a limeted heropool that navi can easily counter everything, fnatic even counters alliance now. After all the teamliquid hate, grab ur pitchforks for alliancelynchinparty
Alliance... U Suck!
At least Liquid went 1-2 against Na'Vi, Alliance got trounced 3-0!!!!
At this point I wonder if the finals will be a 3-0 as well.
With how good Fnatic played for past few days, and how well Na`Vi is playing today, I seriously doubt it. I except great and close game, well one can hope.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Winning TI doesn't mean that you're supposed to stay there forever, lol. Anyway at this rate iG might actually have remained more dominant post TI for a longer period of time.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Winning TI doesn't mean that you're supposed to stay there forever, lol. Anyway at this rate iG might actually have remained more dominant post TI for a longer period of time.
Because iG had about 3-4 games in the next 6 months?
On December 01 2013 00:31 Hassybaby wrote: Guys, do BKBs share cooldowns? I've never been in a situation where i've had 2 within a cooldown period to try
On December 01 2013 00:31 Hassybaby wrote: Guys, do BKBs share cooldowns? I've never been in a situation where i've had 2 within a cooldown period to try
On December 01 2013 00:31 Hassybaby wrote: Guys, do BKBs share cooldowns? I've never been in a situation where i've had 2 within a cooldown period to try
I'm not trying to be a smartass just answering in case you didn't know, when they say buy another BKB they mean drop the existing one (probably with lower duration) and buy an entirely new one with 13 sec duration. You can't even sell the dropped one.
I don't think BKBs share cooldowns, but you actually have to drop one before you can use the other. IIRC a chinese dude did this during a match and he was playing Alchemist.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Winning TI doesn't mean that you're supposed to stay there forever, lol. Anyway at this rate iG might actually have remained more dominant post TI for a longer period of time.
Because iG had about 3-4 games in the next 6 months?
I don't know man, they won LGD in ACE league finals right after TI, won WCG 2012 against DK, 4th place in G1 lan in December, won G league finals, and actually looked ok right up to G1 lan this year.
On December 01 2013 00:37 Gentso wrote: GG USA, wake up and games are over and it's still very morning. : (
Well now you know what Europeans felt like during TI3...
you are both lucky you have live events in broad daylight or maybe the evening .. here in SEA when there are events its almost always past 12 midnight ..
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
Everything about their management style was made harder in two directions.
It's a lot easier to gank them and blitz them down now, and it's also a lot easier to just counter-greed them because the role of management is so heavily diminished in what you're able to pull out of the map.
They need time off to find a new direction. While travelling so much they have no chance to evolve and figure out a new style that fits them, is good and is still possible in the game.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
This is specially true if you remember how many anti-Alliance nerfs the last patch contained. They are still a contender for top place, but as s4 said in his interview, they haven't grasped the patch yet.
On December 01 2013 00:44 Weasel- wrote: Lol Dreamhack, way to start the Na`Vi vs Alliance series at anywhere from 4 to 7 AM for North Americans.
I seriously cannot believe they did that.
Are you fucking serious? It's not like there's an American team either.
Well, Team Liquid were there... But yeah what a dolt, Euro tourney, "Can't believe they didn't time a specific match which may or may not have happened for NA; Dreamhack Disband". Could be worse, it's currently 3-4am~ for Australia and finals are an entire hour away.
On December 01 2013 00:44 Weasel- wrote: Lol Dreamhack, way to start the Na`Vi vs Alliance series at anywhere from 4 to 7 AM for North Americans.
I seriously cannot believe they did that.
Are you fucking serious? It's not like there's an American team either.
Well, Team Liquid were there... But yeah what a dolt, Euro tourney, "Can't believe they didn't time a specific match which may or may not have happened for NA; Dreamhack Disband".
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
This is specially true if you remember how many anti-Alliance nerfs the last patch contained. They are still a contender for top place, but as s4 said in his interview, they haven't grasped the patch yet.
I have no idea where these guys were when [A] was on a winning streak before DL/MLG....
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
This is specially true if you remember how many anti-Alliance nerfs the last patch contained. They are still a contender for top place, but as s4 said in his interview, they haven't grasped the patch yet.
I have no idea where these guys were when [A] was on a winning streak before DL/MLG....
Winning streak just like Liquids?
And it was hardly a win streak, before MLG they lost to Rox.Kis for G-League and NaVi in WePlay finals.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
This is specially true if you remember how many anti-Alliance nerfs the last patch contained. They are still a contender for top place, but as s4 said in his interview, they haven't grasped the patch yet.
I have no idea where these guys were when [A] was on a winning streak before DL/MLG....
Winning streak just like Liquids?
And it was hardly a win streak, before MLG they lost to Rox.Kis for G-League and NaVi in WePlay finals.
In 6.79, they were 10-1 before the DL groups started and 38-11 when DL groups ended (20th, only 10 days from today). People pointing to the patch are full of shit, esp. since [A] have already said that they need time to calm the fuck down and then scrim and strategize instead of running around to tourneys everywhere.
On December 01 2013 02:58 Arkless wrote: is it just me? or does the video and audio cut out for like 20 seconds every few minutes?
It was happening to me too yesterday almost the whole day, but it stabilized near the end of the day. I guess twitch is the problem, try refreshing the page few times, changing the quality to Medium, then getting to High again helped for me though after a while.
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
I really hope Fnatic take this, I've got nothing against Na'vi, but Fnatic really impressed me so far, and it would a breath of fresh air to see someome besides EG.eu and Navi win something.
On December 01 2013 00:24 nimdil wrote: Alliance better pull their shit together. Being 3-0 by Na'Vi and 2-1 by Fnatic doesn't TI champion make.
Alliance were deleted by a patch, you can hardly blame them.
This is specially true if you remember how many anti-Alliance nerfs the last patch contained. They are still a contender for top place, but as s4 said in his interview, they haven't grasped the patch yet.
I have no idea where these guys were when [A] was on a winning streak before DL/MLG....
Winning streak just like Liquids?
And it was hardly a win streak, before MLG they lost to Rox.Kis for G-League and NaVi in WePlay finals.
In 6.79, they were 10-1 before the DL groups started and 38-11 when DL groups ended (20th, only 10 days from today). People pointing to the patch are full of shit, esp. since [A] have already said that they need time to calm the fuck down and then scrim and strategize instead of running around to tourneys everywhere.
Lynch Loda seems best! They didnt win MLG or DH. They suck.... Give me my moment of copying liquidhaters plz just to show how ridiculous it looks
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Chill man, I had no complaints. Just explaining the reasoning behind the previous post I quoted.
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Chill man, I had no complaints. Just explaining the reasoning behind the previous post I quoted.
Not sure what your point is though.
Nah I wasn't mad at you, just the guy you quoted. It makes me angry that people are just like "lololol winners have no advantage bo5 finals kk fnatic have it hard" because....that's not true.
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It's obviously an advantage, not going to argue that, but I have no idea what this has to do with extended series.
Shit, I miss the old heal + push strats that Fnatic used to run in hon. That's back when they were called with MSI. It would be Necro + Dazzle + Omni + ... I think Chen and some random hero? Maybe Abba? Was amazing, haha...
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It's obviously an advantage, not going to argue that, but I have no idea what this has to do with extended series.
The point that extended series people make is that the WB people need an advantage in the extra game that they would get in the extended format, but they ignore the fact that the LB people play more games which is already a disadvantage for the LB people.
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It's obviously an advantage, not going to argue that, but I have no idea what this has to do with extended series.
The point that extended series people make is that the WB people need an advantage in the extra game that they would get in the extended format, but they ignore the fact that the LB people play more games which is clearly a disadvantage for the LB people.
Again, this had nothing to do with extended series. In an extended series, Fnatic would start with a 3-0 and they would play in a bigger BoX. I doubt anyone wants that. I just have no idea why you are talking about it.
On December 01 2013 03:03 Derrida wrote: so, a BO5 grand final in which the team coming from the winners bracket have no advantage?
Advantage I guess was playing less games? Although this could be a disadvantage too since no momentum, practice, etc.
Are we seriously gonna talk about whether or not playing less games is an advantage or not after all the shit DK went through at MLG? Is this happening? Dear god extended series people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It's obviously an advantage, not going to argue that, but I have no idea what this has to do with extended series.
The point that extended series people make is that the WB people need an advantage in the extra game that they would get in the extended format, but they ignore the fact that the LB people play more games which is clearly a disadvantage for the LB people.
Again, this had nothing to do with extended series. In an extended series, Fnatic would start with a 3-0 and they would play in a bigger BoX. I doubt anyone wants that. I just have no idea why you are talking about it.
Meh, I also use "extended series" as the term when the WB comes in with the extra game. Convention mistake.
The stream cutting out every minute for like 20 seconds on all settings and browsers today, is unbearable. Cmon twitch get it together. Was like this all day yesterday too
On December 01 2013 03:25 Arkless wrote: The stream cutting out every minute for like 20 seconds on all settings and browsers today, is unbearable. Cmon twitch get it together. Was like this all day yesterday too
have you thought it might be you? I wonder if other Canadians/Americans are experiencing the same. Working perfectly here in Europe.
On December 01 2013 03:25 Arkless wrote: The stream cutting out every minute for like 20 seconds on all settings and browsers today, is unbearable. Cmon twitch get it together. Was like this all day yesterday too
On December 01 2013 03:25 Arkless wrote: The stream cutting out every minute for like 20 seconds on all settings and browsers today, is unbearable. Cmon twitch get it together. Was like this all day yesterday too
have you thought it might be you? I wonder if other Canadians/Americans are experiencing the same. Working perfectly here in Europe.
Overall mine has been fine overall, a few pauses every now and then, but nothing unbearable.
On December 01 2013 03:31 Sea_aeS wrote: Whats the problem James has with Tobi ?_?
Pretty sure it's mutual. Passive aggressiveness on both sides and it's been going on for a while, except James is generally much smoother and more witty when he talks, so Tobi is generally left expressing his passive aggressiveness on twitter whenever James is in a bad spot publicly.
What if they put Tiny/Wisp mid and Puck safe/off-lane? Then just pick clock to suicide one of the other lanes. Or even put clock mid. Clock would be awesome pick for Fnatic here.
What if they put Tiny/Wisp mid and Puck safe/off-lane? Then just pick clock to suicide one of the other lanes. Or even put clock mid. Clock would be awesome pick for Fnatic here.
Tiny/Wisp can't do anything against TA solo mid, and if they rotate Maiden to the mid, it will be easy kill for them on Wisp.
On December 01 2013 03:57 ymir233 wrote: Na'Vi are REALLY learning their lessons in anti-wisp. Kuro shackles and runs the fuck away the moment they smell the relocate.
On December 01 2013 03:57 ymir233 wrote: Na'Vi are REALLY learning their lessons in anti-wisp. Kuro shackles and runs the fuck away the moment they smell the relocate.
funnik
Sorry, my mistake, dese drafts are starting to overlap hahaha
Tiny tossing CM wisp after CM and both of them dying as a result seemed to me like the biggest mistake in the game so far. Well, and then the Wisp ulti on aegis Luna + lack of communication.
Also, I cannot believe that a Dreamhack production actually manages to keep the same audio issues for 3 days, I'm honestly shocked at that.
On December 01 2013 04:08 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Tiny tossing CM wisp after CM and both of them dying as a result seemed to me like the biggest mistake in the game so far. Well, and then the Wisp ulti on aegis Luna + lack of communication.
Also, I cannot believe that a Dreamhack production actually manages to keep the same audio issues for 3 days, I'm honestly shocked at that.
Imo the biggest mistake was midas on DS AND enigma. They're the two gods of soul ring brown boots mek combo. One should have gone for the totally OP mek before min 10.
The Midas for Enigma really didn't pay off at all. I must imagine he could've done great things with a Blink Dagger in a lot of these engagements. Now he got a 27min BKB, eh.
Na'vi with some very disciplined playstyle here..Not giving away silly pickoffs and reacting well to every wisp gank. Fnatic coordination seemed on in the first 10 mins but they gave away too many silly pickoffs
Despite the ending, the game could have gone Fnatic's way with a bit more luck and precision. It won't matter anyway, Navi can only win if they get a huge advantage.
On December 01 2013 04:22 Manit0u wrote: Should have picked clock instead of DS.
DS pick was fine imo, just imagine he had a 10 minute Mek instead of a 9 minute Midas....
I'm pretty sure Fnatic would have won the game.
Clock would be better still. You not only get another long range initiator. Another way to stop CM ult. Awesome zonig tools and the way to deal with windrun.
On December 01 2013 04:20 Otolia wrote: Despite the ending, the game could have gone Fnatic's way with a bit more luck and precision. It won't matter anyway, Navi can only win if they get a huge advantage.
I'd rather rate them as the best team at playing from behind thanks to their yolo chaos fight strat.
On December 01 2013 04:21 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Enigma kinda felt like a non-factor the entire game.
I only saw 1...or 2 black holes?
In theory, you only need 1 to win the game so no biggie.
It's more like he never felt like danger throughout the game. Even during the mid phases he could do nothing but slowly walk in, as Midas doesn't give him any real benefit in a battle. So he got 2 one-man Black Holes off in the game and that's that. And it's not like he did much good otherwise either. Had pretty bad early game farm due to being jungle harassed and yeh.
Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
It's broadcasted on TV, maybe they have to do some adaptation as a result
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
I don't get it either. At TI it was 2-5 mins. but all other LAN events have 15-20 minutes between games. It's really bad
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
It's cause of TV i think. They have an interview with Era on swedish tv now so
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
I don't get it either. At TI it was 2-5 mins. but all other LAN events have 15-20 minutes between games. It's really bad
Yeah man... Thats proly the reason there are Bo3 most of the time and only Bo5 finals... Dota tourneys would have to be held over multipale weekends otherwise^^
I think the midas gaming is going to die off at least partially. I think this game Fnatic lost it partially because of the midases. They had a strong early game, but fell off midlane. Having 6k gold in just midases had to have a part in that.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
Exactly, i love Midas and the extra gold in 6.79, the problem is that teams thinks they can get away with it, if you are sacrificing much more important items like a Blink dagger or Mek, its just not worth it and will lose you games if the other team recognize this ! (they are going to push and get the utility items you lack)
Really, the question isn't about whether Midas should be nerfed or removed. The item's been the same for ages. There's zero reason why you'd consider it to be the problem.
Really if Midas is so popular it's indicative of a game where you have a lull in the action that's long enough to make getting them on so many people good (i.e. T1s are easy to push down, but T2s are difficult to do so without farming a much larger item advantage). The question shouldn't be whether Midas should be nerfed, but whether mass Midas is indicative of a larger issue in how the game plays right now. Mass Midas is simply a symptom of this.
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
It's cause of TV i think. They have an interview with Era on swedish tv now so
On December 01 2013 04:43 TheYango wrote: Really, the question isn't about whether Midas should be nerfed or removed. The item's been the same for ages. There's zero reason why you'd consider it to be the problem.
Really if Midas is so popular it's indicative of a game where you have a lull in the action that's long enough to make getting them on so many people good (i.e. T1s are easy to push down, but T2s are difficult to do so without farming a much larger item advantage). The question shouldn't be whether Midas should be nerfed, but whether mass Midas is indicative of a larger issue in how the game plays right now. Mass Midas is simply a symptom of this.
On December 01 2013 04:43 TheYango wrote: Really, the question isn't about whether Midas should be nerfed or removed. The item's been the same for ages. There's zero reason why you'd consider it to be the problem.
Really if Midas is so popular it's indicative of a game where you have a lull in the action that's long enough to make getting them good (i.e. T1s are easy to push down, but T2s are difficult to do so without farming a much larger item advantage). The question shouldn't be whether Midas should be nerfed, but whether mass Midas is indicative of a larger issue in how the game plays right now. Mass Midas is simply a symptom of this.
It's so nice to have icefrog on the forum to share the hindsight. I think I would be half less good at dota without your comments.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
On December 01 2013 04:43 TheYango wrote: Really, the question isn't about whether Midas should be nerfed or removed. The item's been the same for ages. There's zero reason why you'd consider it to be the problem.
Really if Midas is so popular it's indicative of a game where you have a lull in the action that's long enough to make getting them on so many people good (i.e. T1s are easy to push down, but T2s are difficult to do so without farming a much larger item advantage). The question shouldn't be whether Midas should be nerfed, but whether mass Midas is indicative of a larger issue in how the game plays right now. Mass Midas is simply a symptom of this.
On December 01 2013 04:35 Blackfish wrote: Why is there always such a big break between dota games? I mean sc2 pro's do not need 20 min+ breaks after every single game? Is it cause one game is so much longer normally?
It's cause of TV i think. They have an interview with Era on swedish tv now so
wait this is on tv ? cool
Yea it is. Just got home from a walk and turned out the tv on the usual channel and this was one. A nice surprise even though it looks pretty poor on the TV compared on the computer
You're talking completely out of your ass, Tobi. It's a shame, cause now I have disregard most what you say. What you just said about N0tail was shit, so, honestly, you should not feign to have knowledge which you do not have. Oh, but I forgot, it's you.
Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
An item is just an object, its not actual gameplay. So if nerfing a symptom does not change the gameplay then there's no point in nerfing it.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
This passivity has always somewhat existed in Dota, so nerfing Midas obviously won't help. But going Midas wasn't common even if you knew you didn't have to fight for 10mins.
Picking up a midas or not should be an interesting choice, and it should limits you some other way, it should make your early game far more volatile, and give the opponents a major timing to run you over, but right now it seems like people are getting away with it, mostly without much risk. But eh, it means more farmed supports which I'm ok with.
On December 01 2013 05:00 OrchidThief wrote: Picking up a midas or not should be an interesting choice, and it should limits you some other way, it should make your early game far more volatile, and give the opponents a major timing to run you over, but right now it seems like people are getting away with it, mostly without much risk. But eh, it means more farmed supports which I'm ok with.
Last game was completely won because NaVi could read that Fnatic were going full midas without a single utility big item
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
The causal relationship is important here. Seeing 5 Midases in a game is not what's boring. Seeing 5 Midases and people farming for 5-10 minutes with them (or alternatively just losing the game when they can't win a fight) is boring. But the question is, are people farming for 5-10 minutes because they're buying Midas because it's too strong? Or are they buying Midas because some other factor compels them to farm for 5-10 minutes, and Midas is naturally the item to buy for that? Because if it's the latter, nerfing Midas won't stop people from farming for 5-10 minutes, which is the real gameplay problem that bothers people.
It's not that I think fixing the symptom is worse--I think fixing the symptom doesn't do ANYTHING. Nerfing or removing Midas doesn't alter the need for a farming phase to build up a larger item advantage before pushing. In fact, without a tool to accelerate farm from an advantage, it's actually possible that the farming phase could be even more drawn out.
On December 01 2013 05:00 OrchidThief wrote: Picking up a midas or not should be an interesting choice, and it should limits you some other way, it should make your early game far more volatile, and give the opponents a major timing to run you over, but right now it seems like people are getting away with it, mostly without much risk. But eh, it means more farmed supports which I'm ok with.
Last game was completely won because NaVi could read that Fnatic were going full midas without a single utility big item
Be that as it may, there's as many games where it goes the other way, people get away with it, and not for the lack of trying. It's not a big enough risk as it is.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
The causal relationship is important here. Seeing 5 Midases in a game is not what's boring. Seeing 5 Midases and people farming for 5-10 minutes with them (or alternatively just losing the game when they can't win a fight) is boring. But the question is, are people farming for 5-10 minutes because they're buying Midas because it's too strong? Or are they buying Midas because some other factor compels them to farm for 5-10 minutes, and Midas is naturally the item to buy for that? Because if it's the latter, nerfing Midas won't stop people from farming for 5-10 minutes, which is the real gameplay problem that bothers people.
It's not that I think fixing the symptom is worse--I think fixing the symptom doesn't do ANYTHING. Nerfing or removing Midas doesn't alter the need for a farming phase to build up a larger item advantage before pushing. In fact, without a tool to accelerate farm from an advantage, it's actually possible that the farming phase could be even more drawn out.
And wasn't it common for teams to farm for 5-10 minutes or a Rosh before pushing high ground before the Midas craze? Yet far less people complained about it than they do about Midas. It's a much harder issue to fix.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
The reason why midas isn't punished as well and passive play is preferred instead is that people are still pretty sloppy in timings in Dota 2 (as well as timings being more fuzzy overall within the game), so if you don't have too many overlapping midases it's hard to punish when you don't know the timings unless you're constantly roaming around causing pressure/chaos like Na'Vi do (hence Aui's comments and also n0tail's comments about "good/bad midas"). I'm not sure if I would support a midas change just because people are too lazy to learn more precise timings.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
The reason why midas isn't punished as well and passive play is preferred instead is that people are still pretty sloppy in timings in Dota 2 (as well as timings being more fuzzy overall within the game), so if you don't have too many overlapping midases it's hard to punish when you don't know the timings unless you're constantly roaming around causing pressure/chaos like Na'Vi do. I'm not sure if I would support a midas change just because people are too lazy to learn more precise timings.
You are saying nothing needs to be fixed. Yango is saying the core gameplay needs to be fixed, not Midas. Diferent things.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
And that's the problem. With you getting gold from assist (as opposed to being near the kill) it's much easier for squishy supports to get it.
On December 01 2013 04:53 SKC wrote: Fixing a sympton is fine. Plenty of heroes received no changes and were suddenly overpowered or underpowered because of changes to the gameplay. They were often nerfed/buffed to compensate. The question should be whether the change that made Midas so good was good for the game and whether there is a good change to the game that can also help fixing Midas. If that's not the case, there is no reason why you cannot nerf an item that became good because of how the gameplay developed. There is nothing inheremtly wrong with fixing symptons.
Well, no, because if what makes Midas boring is that lull in the action that promotes its use (an item being boring by itself makes no sense, only the gameplay associated with it can be boring), nerfing Midas won't fix that.
The question is whether you can easily fix that lull in the action. It's mostly because of the increase in difficulty of pushing into higher tiers of towers, requiring the winning team to play passive and prepare better before pushing. A change that promotes pushing your advantage immediatly may also cause the game to be more snowbally and diminish the defenders advantage that creates amazing comebacks and great games. Changing Midas is a easier and less impactfull choice than changing the core of how the game is played, specially so soon after a major patch. It's a safer choice and I really wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.
The reason why midas isn't punished as well and passive play is preferred instead is that people are still pretty sloppy in timings in Dota 2 (as well as timings being more fuzzy overall within the game), so if you don't have too many overlapping midases it's hard to punish when you don't know the timings unless you're constantly roaming around causing pressure/chaos like Na'Vi do. I'm not sure if I would support a midas change just because people are too lazy to learn more precise timings.
You are saying nothing needs to be fixed. Yango is saying the core gameplay needs to be fixed, not Midas. Diferent things.
I said midas shouldn't be changed so casually like that and you threw my suggestion onto the roadside - good thing you put words into my mouth for me - ______ -
On December 01 2013 05:05 SKC wrote: And wasn't it common for teams to farm for 5-10 minutes or a Rosh before pushing high ground before the Midas craze? Yet far less people complained about it than they do about Midas. It's a much harder issue to fix.
I think that's a difference in expectation. High ground defender's advantage has always been that large. It's normal to people to have that lull prior to a high ground push and it's usually accompanied by gem+aggressive ward map pressure, so it's not really passive in the same way.
A lull in action from pushing T1->T2 is weird for people, especially since for the most of DotA 2, a team being able to steamroll directly from T1 to T2 with their advantage was the norm.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
And that's the problem. With you getting gold from assist (as opposed to being near the kill) it's much easier for squishy supports to get it.
1300 range is extremely lenient. For the most part it's actually easier to be in 1300 range when the enemy hero dies than to have actually contributed something directly to the kill.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
And that's the problem. With you getting gold from assist (as opposed to being near the kill) it's much easier for squishy supports to get it.
what
the gold aoe is huge (1300 range)
hows landing a spell or right click easier than just being in the area
Well the meta will evolve to punish the midas kinda like the EE stack strat or it becomes more passive. Its far too early to tell. Midas also makes alot more heroes viable. It might be easier to make midas cheaper but give less gold and the same amount of xp.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
And that's the problem. With you getting gold from assist (as opposed to being near the kill) it's much easier for squishy supports to get it.
1300 range is extremely lenient. For the most part it's actually easier to be in 1300 range when the enemy hero dies than to have actually contributed something directly to the kill.
Ive read this discussion aout massmidas. still i like midas on supports as i play support alot and it gives me more money to burn without stealing lasthits But why dont u just make the tier 1 towers tougher? It will change the way massmidas works because if u go massmidas, no early tier1 for your team? (im a noob dont get angry)
Mass midas will still be possible for lategame strats ofcourse, but not without risk.
so hold on. someone tell me that they arent interrupting the finals because of darude? Everyone is saying that darude is "playing next" on DH SC2 thread and twitter.
I think Puppey's super strat that he stayed up all night thinking about was his figuring out of the midas meta. Win lanes, then play 5man dota and pressure your enemy while they have only midases, then win the game.
Or he was just bullshitting the entire time and its super mindgames to mess up Fnatic.
I'm glad Na'Vi is punishing the Midas gaming. I understand getting the item on as many heroes as you can if you're going for the lategame, But it's just retarded to go that item on a full on ganking/mobility team. What's the fucking point of picking such a lineup then.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Grettin wrote: so hold on. someone tell me that they arent interrupting the finals because of darude? Everyone is saying that darude is "playing next" on DH SC2 thread and twitter.
Darude is at 22-20, thats 50 minutes... I hope they wont wait for it....
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
On December 01 2013 05:28 Saber_Rider wrote: Well...maybe try not buying midases next game? :p at least not like 3-4
See I think this is the problem. I hate how Midas is almost pigeonholing supports to get it in place of their respective cores. Don't they wonder what could've happen if they got their cores faster instead?
On December 01 2013 05:29 Grettin wrote: so hold on. someone tell me that they arent interrupting the finals because of darude? Everyone is saying that darude is "playing next" on DH SC2 thread and twitter.
Darude is at 22-20, thats 50 minutes... I hope they wont wait for it....
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
I think we are still in the "any team can beat any team" phase, also MLG was a very crazy tournament which Navi didn't win.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Weasel- wrote: I think Puppey's super strat that he stayed up all night thinking about was his figuring out of the midas meta. Win lanes, then play 5man dota and pressure your enemy while they have only midases, then win the game.
Or he was just bullshitting the entire time and its super mindgames to mess up Fnatic.
or it's luna + cm + windrunner
it's like lgd.int's old strat. win lanes with luna, win the game. cm/wr make the laning really flexible/easy, and fnatic haven't been pressuring at all.
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
You can blame other teams as well for not being on par. Fnatic tried gimmicky Wisp+Tiny and they were defeated and now they're choking.
Alliance perfected DotA last patch, and now new patch changes their whole system. Na'Vi is the only team that kept going despite all the changes.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Grettin wrote: so hold on. someone tell me that they arent interrupting the finals because of darude? Everyone is saying that darude is "playing next" on DH SC2 thread and twitter.
Darude is at 22-20, thats 50 minutes... I hope they wont wait for it....
On December 01 2013 05:33 Faruko wrote: Twitch chat goes wild when this commercial goes ari "BEMBEMBEM" lol
Twitch is like fightclub. What happens in chat stays in chat. I would not like it if that ever reached the real world and people i like knew what i was writing there all the time:D.. bembembembembemmmmm
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
You can blame other teams as well for not being on par. Fnatic tried gimmicky Wisp+Tiny and they were defeated and now they're choking.
Alliance perfected DotA last patch, and now new patch changes their whole system. Na'Vi is the only team that kept going despite all the changes.
Because Navi is pretty flexible and chaotic at the same time so they didn't really perfect last patch, but still managed to change quickly. Very good team right now.
To be quite frank, Fnatic as a team has never had foresight and sense of game flow as one of their strengths. Their strength has always been in their teamplay so it doesn't make sense to me that they'd embrace a strategy centered around selfish farming, and which requires good foresight of the next 10 minutes of the game so readily. It doesn't play to their strengths as a team.
On December 01 2013 04:28 trinxified wrote: Hence why Midas ruins games now. Imagine if item was removed. Heroes will actually get their core items now without having to debate if Midas is better.
I dont agree. The midas gives the supports more farm, making the game more dynamic. There is more damage then just a carry, semi carry. I think midas is a blessing for supports and a more dynamic dota2 teamfight.
They should do it the way HoN did. Support gold for kills. You get the gold (and it's as much as 150g) if you participated in the kill (if you hit the hero that dies later with one auto-attack for example or if you cast a spell on him). And you get this gold regardless if you're anywhere near the kill (you can even be dead at the time). This helps supports with their farm immensely and makes for faster item progression overall and thus more dynamic environment.
Support gold exists, and it can be quite meaningful. But you get it from being near a kill instead of getting an assist.
And that's the problem. With you getting gold from assist (as opposed to being near the kill) it's much easier for squishy supports to get it.
what
the gold aoe is huge (1300 range)
hows landing a spell or right click easier than just being in the area
It's easier because you can launch your spell/autoattack/whatever and then die, walk away or something. Being around the kill usually means staying alive and (relatively) close to it. Might not seem like much when you're ganking, but in a bigger teamfight when supports tend to melt almost-instantly it's quite a factor.
I feel like tournaments that have the lower bracket final and grand final on the same day are really punishing for the team from the winner's bracket. the lb team just had the perfect preparation with a very motivating result and the ub team has to come in "cold" (of course they can warm-up with scrims and pub play) but it does not compare to winning an actual game.
another reason to hate double elimination, especially this "hybrid" format that goes into this psuedo-grandfinal were the whole concept is dropped for more excitement (you getting eliminated twice...). MLG was really breath of fresh air... double elimination and dota are just a horrible match. Long game-times and repeat match-ups giving the loser of the upper bracket series additional information for the draft just make double elim a horrible format for the game...
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
On December 01 2013 05:36 Manit0u wrote: It's easier because you can launch your spell/autoattack/whatever and then die, walk away or something. Being around the kill usually means staying alive and (relatively) close to it. Might not seem like much when you're ganking, but in a bigger teamfight when supports tend to melt almost-instantly it's quite a factor.
??? It's the exact same. All that's different is the timing. You can either be in 1300 range the split-second they die and be out of range for the rest of the fight, or you can be in a lot less than 1300 range the split-second you need to cast your spell.
Also, assist gold/XP while dead affects way more things than just support gold. It affects the entire dynamic of trading kills (e.g. whether a 2v1 dive where you get the kill but lose one after is worth it).
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
If your goal is to grab a BKB and then keep applying pressure and increasing your advantage, it makes sense to avoid delaying your first core item and start the 5 man earlier.
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
You can blame other teams as well for not being on par. Fnatic tried gimmicky Wisp+Tiny and they were defeated and now they're choking.
Alliance perfected DotA last patch, and now new patch changes their whole system. Na'Vi is the only team that kept going despite all the changes.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
If your goal is to grab a BKB and then keep applying pressure and increasing your advantage, it makes sense to avoid delaying your first core item and start the 5 man earlier.
especially when there is NS, that could just go for pick offs. So why not 5man earlier and make the weaver just useless, cause he has nothing.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
Luna demands teamfight/pushing participation at 10-15 minutes, long before a Midas has kicked in. What's more, Luna's early fighting power banks a lot on her survivability because she needs to be at very close range to maximize the effectiveness of her ultimate. Having a Midas instead of Drums or an Ogre Axe is quite noticeable because having less HP might mean the difference between a full ult and getting killed a few beams in.
That and I'm tired of seeing Navi win everything. I liked things early this year/ late 2012 when any team could beat any team and tournaments were always crazy
You can blame other teams as well for not being on par. Fnatic tried gimmicky Wisp+Tiny and they were defeated and now they're choking.
Alliance perfected DotA last patch, and now new patch changes their whole system. Na'Vi is the only team that kept going despite all the changes.
That's also because Navi's strength has always been in their insane teamfights. Alliance and many other teams relied on drafting and strategy, which in turn is heavily dependent on the patch. That's why while Navi still needs to adjust to the patch, their ability to adapt and play in game has not changed. They are not really doing anything different from before.
On December 01 2013 05:36 Manit0u wrote: It's easier because you can launch your spell/autoattack/whatever and then die, walk away or something. Being around the kill usually means staying alive and (relatively) close to it. Might not seem like much when you're ganking, but in a bigger teamfight when supports tend to melt almost-instantly it's quite a factor.
??? It's the exact same. All that's different is the timing. You can either be in 1300 range the split-second they die and be out of range for the rest of the fight, or you can be in a lot less than 1300 range the split-second you need to cast your spell.
Also, assist gold/XP while dead affects way more things than just support gold. It affects the entire dynamic of trading kills (e.g. whether a 2v1 dive where you get the kill but lose one after is worth it).
It's not really the same. The biggest difference is that you can get support gold if you're around when the fight starts. With the near-kill gold you must be there when the fight ends/is heavily underway. For most it's not a big difference, but for your hard support who has just wards and maybe brown boots its huge. Imagine this example: You get spotted and killed while warding jungle but you managed to hit the killer and someone was nearby and comes to avenge you since they were too far to help you live. You die, your killer dies, you get 150g (after death, so you don't lose it) and can now purchase another set of wards at least.
I agree with changing the dynamic (it's still a change in the more desired direction -> more action).
On December 01 2013 05:42 TheYango wrote: Luna demands teamfight/pushing participation at 10-15 minutes, long before a Midas has kicked in. What's more, Luna's early fighting power banks a lot on her survivability because she needs to be at very close range to maximize the effectiveness of her ultimate. Having a Midas instead of Drums or an Ogre Axe is quite noticeable because having less HP might mean the difference between a full ult and getting killed a few beams in.
Doesn't Luna's ult keep going even after she dies?
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
Luna demands teamfight/pushing participation at 10-15 minutes, long before a Midas has kicked in. What's more, Luna's early fighting power banks a lot on her survivability because she needs to be at very close range to maximize the effectiveness of her ultimate. Having a Midas instead of Drums or an Ogre Axe is quite noticeable because having less HP might mean the difference between a full ult and getting killed a few beams in.
Pretty much this. If you plan to drag the game for Midases to take the effect, it is good, but that still doesn't mean that the enemy is going to wait for you to farm up, they will just punish you for it with faster core items.
If no teammate can stack every minute hotd is a better midas for somebody like luna, no? stack the ancients while staying active and when you're near collect money + xp. of course you need to defend the ancient spot but that is doable especially when it's really early and all your enemies are sitting on nothing but midases
On December 01 2013 05:36 Manit0u wrote: It's easier because you can launch your spell/autoattack/whatever and then die, walk away or something. Being around the kill usually means staying alive and (relatively) close to it. Might not seem like much when you're ganking, but in a bigger teamfight when supports tend to melt almost-instantly it's quite a factor.
??? It's the exact same. All that's different is the timing. You can either be in 1300 range the split-second they die and be out of range for the rest of the fight, or you can be in a lot less than 1300 range the split-second you need to cast your spell.
Also, assist gold/XP while dead affects way more things than just support gold. It affects the entire dynamic of trading kills (e.g. whether a 2v1 dive where you get the kill but lose one after is worth it).
think he's saying it's less punishing of poor play (diving in and getting one round of spells off). the actual consequences are much bigger, though - supportey supports like omni/dazzle end up getting a lot less money, the whole dynamic changes.
that's the kind of change i'd rather stays in other games. crosses the line into homogenization, the way I see it. i'm sure you can design around it, just not sure the trades are worth it. other games are already doing it, after all.
On December 01 2013 05:29 Daralii wrote: See, Puppey knows how to use a fucking Midas. Fnatic don't, but they keep building it anyway.
That is my impression as well. Same thing when Fnatic lost their first game to Alliance but won next two. If you are ahead, you can get Midas, but if you are behind, you need some items as soon as possible so you can actually fight the enemy.
Fnatic is just building Midases no matter if they are behind or ahead, and when they are behind(last two games), it ends up by Na`Vi having stuff like Armlet/Manta/BKBs/Meka/Force Staffs etc, while they have just Midases and maybe half of the next item. It is painful to watch, but I guess it is good for me being a Na`Vi fan.
just a question about getting a midas
whats wrong with getting a midas first on a carry, i'm curious why hvost or funn1k didnt while weaver did, im more so curious about the luna because i would of thought a lot of her teamfight prior to glaives is based around her Q and ult (along with the lunar blessing) so grabbing a midas while ensuring levels won't really gimp her too hard at an early item deficit
surely as a core getting an early midas ~5-6 minutes (although weavers was significantly later) should be fine because its quite likely the game is going to go on long enough for you to get your worth from it back
Luna demands teamfight/pushing participation at 10-15 minutes, long before a Midas has kicked in. What's more, Luna's early fighting power banks a lot on her survivability because she needs to be at very close range to maximize the effectiveness of her ultimate. Having a Midas instead of Drums or an Ogre Axe is quite noticeable because having less HP might mean the difference between a full ult and getting killed a few beams in.
we've seen pretty successful ricing midas luna too. think it's more a playstyle/timing thing: if fnatic are playing really greedy, but losing lanes, it's better to slay all the towers as safely as possible and then outfarm, rather than slowing down the pace.
and funnik's build was still pretty greedy. treads, dominator, yasha then bkb isn't like the old drum bkb then kill towers
On December 01 2013 05:42 TheYango wrote: Luna demands teamfight/pushing participation at 10-15 minutes, long before a Midas has kicked in. What's more, Luna's early fighting power banks a lot on her survivability because she needs to be at very close range to maximize the effectiveness of her ultimate. Having a Midas instead of Drums or an Ogre Axe is quite noticeable because having less HP might mean the difference between a full ult and getting killed a few beams in.
Doesn't Luna's ult keep going even after she dies?
believe the night affect stays for the rest of the duration, but the beams definitely stop.
I understand an ancient stack is nice, but i think that as we've seen from DK v Speed double frost armour can just be downright unfair
Luna had a dominator, I would of thought that grabbing a frost troll would of been a better choice especially when they wanted to force fights and increase survivability
On December 01 2013 05:52 Denzil wrote: Why is Lich + Frost armour troll so undervalued?
I understand an ancient stack is nice, but i think that as we've seen from DK v Speed double frost armour can just be downright unfair
Luna had a dominator, I would of thought that grabbing a frost troll would of been a better choice especially when they wanted to force fights and increase survivability
On December 01 2013 05:52 Denzil wrote: Why is Lich + Frost armour troll so undervalued?
I understand an ancient stack is nice, but i think that as we've seen from DK v Speed double frost armour can just be downright unfair
Luna had a dominator, I would of thought that grabbing a frost troll would of been a better choice especially when they wanted to force fights and increase survivability
Lich + doom + troll = Literally no damage.
The frost amour on the rest of the team still did work though
On December 01 2013 05:47 Manit0u wrote: I agree with changing the dynamic (it's still a change in the more desired direction -> more action).
I don't agree with that.
Consider the 2v1 dive situation I described. With assist gold for the dead hero, it essentially makes the dive not worth it if you lose 1. In the current situation, if you 2v1 dive, get the kill, and someone TPs in and counter-kills one, your team nets a kill's gold/XP and an assist's gold/XP, while the team that got dived spent a TP and got a kill's gold/XP with no assist gold.
If the person killed gets assist gold/XP it essentially evens out the gold/XP of the dive because they got XP on the counter-kill from them getting dived. It essentially disfavors the dive because it makes the potential trades favor the defender more often than the aggressor.
In general gameplay patterns that reward the aggressor favor action and fighting, while gameplay patterns that reward the defender favor passivity and reaction. In this case, even trades slightly favor the team that got the kill first because the other team had one less person benefitting from the kill/XP gold. Kill/XP gold after death loses this aggressor's advantage, which disincentivizes taking the initiative.
On December 01 2013 05:42 TheYango wrote: Doesn't Luna's ult keep going even after she dies?
No. The visuals are misleading, but the ult does stop.
Personally, I think fnatic are approaching the mass Midas wrongly. You really need a lineup that can drag games while your Midas comes online. NS needs items to get his ganks going, and he is central to fnatic's ability to hold the game. If they had heroes like Clock/Bat, they could have stalled the game by constantly getting good pick offs. Remember that they don't even have good antipush/push. Their lineup is a ganking lineup, but they didn't play like that. Their greed was left open for punishment.
Yeah it's honestly a bit annoying now. I get you want to hype up the finals, but 30min-1hour analysis between games is just straight down retarded, sorry Dreamhack.
On December 01 2013 05:38 h0munkulus wrote: I feel like tournaments that have the lower bracket final and grand final on the same day are really punishing for the team from the winner's bracket. the lb team just had the perfect preparation with a very motivating result and the ub team has to come in "cold" (of course they can warm-up with scrims and pub play) but it does not compare to winning an actual game.
On the flip side, one can argue that the schedule is punishing for the team coming from the loser bracket, if their loser finals go the distance to game 5, and each game lasting 50+ min. They would be exhausted having already played for 5 hours, plus god knows how long spent on commercial breaks (lol).
Pick your poison. Have Your favorite team "warmed up", or have them worn out.
On December 01 2013 05:38 h0munkulus wrote: I feel like tournaments that have the lower bracket final and grand final on the same day are really punishing for the team from the winner's bracket. the lb team just had the perfect preparation with a very motivating result and the ub team has to come in "cold" (of course they can warm-up with scrims and pub play) but it does not compare to winning an actual game.
another reason to hate double elimination, especially this "hybrid" format that goes into this psuedo-grandfinal were the whole concept is dropped for more excitement (you getting eliminated twice...). MLG was really breath of fresh air... double elimination and dota are just a horrible match. Long game-times and repeat match-ups giving the loser of the upper bracket series additional information for the draft just make double elim a horrible format for the game...
Wrong. No pro wants to play mentally draining games that also matter before a grand finals.
On December 01 2013 06:06 Vankuga wrote: Invoker vs OD, guys, how hard does OD win this matchup?
Just as hard as any other mid MU.
I'm pretty sure OD doesn't beat Invoker as hard as Razor or Pudge. If Invoker is able to summon a spirit it may not be as bad as to other int mid heroes.
On December 01 2013 06:06 Vankuga wrote: Invoker vs OD, guys, how hard does OD win this matchup?
Just as hard as any other mid MU.
I'm pretty sure OD doesn't beat Invoker as hard as Razor or Pudge. If Invoker is able to summon a spirit it may not be as bad as to other int mid heroes.
Still beats well enough. Either way, we shall see now.
On December 01 2013 06:06 Vankuga wrote: Invoker vs OD, guys, how hard does OD win this matchup?
Just as hard as any other mid MU.
I'm pretty sure OD doesn't beat Invoker as hard as Razor or Pudge. If Invoker is able to summon a spirit it may not be as bad as to other int mid heroes.
The majority of the harassment damage an invoker does comes from his right click, not the cold snap OR the spirit.
Although invoker will still have good damage due to the exort orbs, levels 1-3 might suck a lot for hanni....
and navi chooses a hero that casts spells all the time and is quite squishy .. great one well placed pugna-ward is gonna rape all of them .. well its navi
Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
On December 01 2013 06:15 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
On December 01 2013 06:15 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
Just be happy that they didn't interrupt the grand finals this time :p
On December 01 2013 06:15 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
dh allways has a schedule, cant change that
still has one of the best production value out of all esports handlers
On December 01 2013 06:15 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
dh allways has a schedule, cant change that
Yeh but when even the pauses between games of a match last 20-30mins, be it for TV or whatever reasons, then it's kinda annoying.
Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
I dont understand why they continue to fight over and over when they are so far behind experience wise, they basically cant win when you characters are between 3-7 levels behind
On December 01 2013 06:27 Darpa wrote: I dont understand why they continue to fight over and over when they are so far behind experience wise, they basically cant win when you characters are between 3-7 levels behind
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
On December 01 2013 06:27 Darpa wrote: I dont understand why they continue to fight over and over when they are so far behind experience wise, they basically cant win when you characters are between 3-7 levels behind
what else do those heroes do
at least they had fun with it
Yeah but they were fighting before those heros are good at fighting, i mean sand king never even hit 6 so there was no epi center and veno only hit 6 after the game was already lost. Also pugna has absolutely no heath early so needs a few levels.
Seems like they had a plan to fight, but they just started it way to soon.
On December 01 2013 06:27 Darpa wrote: I dont understand why they continue to fight over and over when they are so far behind experience wise, they basically cant win when you characters are between 3-7 levels behind
They knew they weren't gonna win the game since they were so behind on levels already.Na'vi dealt with that Pugna so well it amazes me that this team has played 3 scrims in total since TI3. :O
Probably THE Greatest team in dota 2 in my mind.Their ability to adapt to Patches and drafts is unseen anymore.
Bad games this tournament, sort of rare for a DOTA tournament in my opinion. Usually at the very least the games are competitive even if not mindblowingly memorable. I guess no run lasts forever.
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
and alliance is still not playing their godlike mode like their form in 6.78 .. or maybe i'm just overthinking and having bias because of me being a alliance fan ever since TI3
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): If you have the time
For real?
An unbelievable stomp at dreamhack final with sandstorm in the background? The hate is strong...
It's nothing to do with hate. It's just the fact that it was a horrible game overall, which was pretty much over after the First Blood engagement. Fnatic did nothing to try to recover except to continuously derp heroes into death.
It actually reminded me of their MLG game vs Navi. I believe they had quite similar picks as well in that game.
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
and alliance is still not playing their godlike mode like their form in 6.78 .. or maybe i'm just overthinking and having bias because of me being a alliance fan ever since TI3
I wouldn't be surprised if Alliance doesn't reach that kind of dominance in this patch. Of course they are an amazing team, but that patch was really amazing for them. I think it's more likely they stay at Navi's level, instead of one step above.
This was easily the most boring tournament in the history of Dota 2. Four 3-0's. Not a single contentious series past the initial day.
Dreamhack needs to bring back the BYOC and more teams, because this trend of bringing in 4 teams only to a LAN playoffs is getting old fast. This format lacks variety in matchups and almost devoid of storylines.
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): If you have the time
For real?
An unbelievable stomp at dreamhack final with sandstorm in the background? The hate is strong...
It's nothing to do with hate. It's just the fact that it was a horrible game overall, which was pretty much over after the First Blood engagement. Fnatic did nothing to try to recover except to continuously derp heroes into death.
It actually reminded me of their MLG game vs Navi. I believe they had quite similar picks as well in that game.
I'm not talking about the game itself but more about the music that was playing and the timing of it, it was the most awesome match ever!!
I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): If you have the time
For real?
An unbelievable stomp at dreamhack final with sandstorm in the background? The hate is strong...
It's nothing to do with hate. It's just the fact that it was a horrible game overall, which was pretty much over after the First Blood engagement. Fnatic did nothing to try to recover except to continuously derp heroes into death.
It actually reminded me of their MLG game vs Navi. I believe they had quite similar picks as well in that game.
It has to do with bias, since when Fnatic was 3-0 Na`Vi, every game was like "recommended? YES - ~80%" just take a look at the polls. And Fnatic 3-0 Na`Vi games were almost the same as Na`Vi 3-0 Fnatic games, complete one-sided stomps where Na`Vi played even worse than how Fnatic was playing today...
On December 01 2013 06:37 jntkflow wrote: This was easily the most boring tournament in the history of Dota 2. Four 3-0's. Not a single contentious series past the initial day.
Dreamhack needs to bring back the BYOC and more teams, because this trend of bringing in 4 teams only to a LAN playoffs is getting old fast. This format lacks variety in matchups and almost devoid of storylines.
I'm also kind of missing the big Dreamhack LAN. This was fantastic, but it just doesn't feel like Dreamhack.
On December 01 2013 06:37 jntkflow wrote: This was easily the most boring tournament in the history of Dota 2. Four 3-0's. Not a single contentious series past the initial day.
Dreamhack needs to bring back the BYOC and more teams, because this trend of bringing in 4 teams only to a LAN playoffs is getting old fast. This format lacks variety in matchups and almost devoid of storylines.
Nothing Dreamhack did wrong, it just happened it that way. The players play the games.
I think a bigger tournament with more teams would also be an idea of course, but the "boring" factor here was out of their hands.
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
and alliance is still not playing their godlike mode like their form in 6.78 .. or maybe i'm just overthinking and having bias because of me being a alliance fan ever since TI3
I wouldn't be surprised if Alliance doesn't reach that kind of dominance in this patch. Of course they are an amazing team, but that patch was really amazing for them. I think it's more likely they stay at Navi's level, instead of one step above.
i was actually hoping after TI3 that somehow alliance will not be as godlike as how flash dominated in BW during 2010/2011 since it would mean that watching pro dota 2 would not be fun anymore. Its a good thing it really happened. At least now dota 2 scene has a very serious competition
On December 01 2013 06:37 jntkflow wrote: This was easily the most boring tournament in the history of Dota 2. Four 3-0's. Not a single contentious series past the initial day.
Dreamhack needs to bring back the BYOC and more teams, because this trend of bringing in 4 teams only to a LAN playoffs is getting old fast. This format lacks variety in matchups and almost devoid of storylines.
Nothing Dreamhack did wrong, it just happened it that way. The players play the games.
I think a bigger tournament with more teams would also be an idea of course, but the "boring" factor here was out of their hands.
Navi best team in the world post TI3?
Not sure about world but west no doubt, for some reason everyone still thought it was alliance, even after losing two finals to navi.
As I said in an earlier post, fnatic went all in with a necrobook strategy. They were banking that navi would not want to go ck wisp aggressive, since they will be laning enchant and facing an additional sunstrike. They key was to ensure enchant has no place in the radiant jungle, but they failed at it. Things just went worst after.
The SK pick is for one main reason: a good setup for sunstrike. Personally I think SD is better, but I guess they really wanted a stunner. The wr pick screwed them up, because it limits their draft.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
and alliance is still not playing their godlike mode like their form in 6.78 .. or maybe i'm just overthinking and having bias because of me being a alliance fan ever since TI3
Gotta love how everyone just talks about Alliance when DK didn't lose a single match in 6.78.
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
On December 01 2013 06:45 DucK- wrote: As I said in an earlier post, fnatic went all in with a necrobook strategy. They were banking that navi would not want to go ck wisp aggressive, since they will be laning enchant and facing an additional sunstrike. They key was to ensure enchant has no place in the radiant jungle, but they failed at it. Things just went worst after.
The SK pick is for one main reason: a good setup for sunstrike. Personally I think SD is better, but I guess they really wanted a stunner. The wr pick screwed them up, because it limits their draft.
SD became a really underrated hero, not a single team is picking him recently.
On December 01 2013 06:24 cecek wrote: Na'Vi once again proving they're the best team at adjusting their playstyle over the course of a tournament. They barely won against Liquid and got 3-0'd by Fnatic, and today they pretty much stomped Alliance and Fnatic 6-0.
Also, the music is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD.
well yeah navi has always been the best team for like 4 years straight .. its so hard to change that .. to alliance credit despite having to lose to navi 3-0 .. they were still the best in the group stages only losing 2 maps .. and they are doing good even though they are not adapting to the newest patch .. and to fanatic well they are not on the same page as navi,dk or alliance (i still have no idea how they 3-0 alliance and looking like trash against navi in all games)
Actually, they 3-0 Na`Vi, and won over 2-1 over Alliance. But Na`Vi didn't play their best dota yesterday whatsoever, but today is another story.
and alliance is still not playing their godlike mode like their form in 6.78 .. or maybe i'm just overthinking and having bias because of me being a alliance fan ever since TI3
Gotta love how everyone just talks about Alliance when DK didn't lose a single match in 6.78.
thats not surprising they are the fan favorites if the name is not "na'vi" and usually people in like them more than the a chinese superstar team
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
On December 01 2013 06:37 jntkflow wrote: This was easily the most boring tournament in the history of Dota 2. Four 3-0's. Not a single contentious series past the initial day.
Dreamhack needs to bring back the BYOC and more teams, because this trend of bringing in 4 teams only to a LAN playoffs is getting old fast. This format lacks variety in matchups and almost devoid of storylines.
Did you actually watch the games or are do you pay attention to LANs just to complain about set scores and storylines?
Looking at Dreamleague as a whole, it was quite enjoyable, despite ending on 3-0 sweeps for the last 4 games. I'll miss the exteeeends and bembembems most of all .
On another note, even though it never went to the 5th game, I'm convinced that Bo5s are way too tiring, not only to the players, but also to us viewers. I'd be happy if tournaments stuck to Bo3s overall.
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
On December 01 2013 06:48 Sbrubbles wrote: Looking at Dreamleague as a whole, it was quite enjoyable, despite ending on 3-0 sweeps for the last 4 games. I'll miss the exteeeends and bembembems most of all .
On another note, even though it never went to the 5th game, I'm convinced that Bo5s are way too tiring, not only to the players, but also to us viewers. I'd be happy if tournaments stuck to Bo3s overall.
Yea I agree, there were some good games. I like Bo5 finals but if we could have some more teams than 4 would be happy for it to be Bo3.
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
On December 01 2013 06:45 DucK- wrote: As I said in an earlier post, fnatic went all in with a necrobook strategy. They were banking that navi would not want to go ck wisp aggressive, since they will be laning enchant and facing an additional sunstrike. They key was to ensure enchant has no place in the radiant jungle, but they failed at it. Things just went worst after.
The SK pick is for one main reason: a good setup for sunstrike. Personally I think SD is better, but I guess they really wanted a stunner. The wr pick screwed them up, because it limits their draft.
SD became a really underrated hero, not a single team is picking him recently.
Well its a hero that isn't the greatest in a dual lane. It offers just a setup, and a defensive spell. Its best suppoting ally generally cannot jungle as well. So basically you are forced to go offensive tri or dual roam, since defensive tri is kinda pointless against an opposing solo.
What was a bit awkward was that Draskyll was cheering for Liquid and Alliance, while Tobi wanted Na'Vi and fnatic to win. So when they both talked during the match, each of them focused on the aspects where their favorite team was ahead. But they also both tried to sound like they're objectively analyzing the situation, so it got awkward and it seemed like they were arguing. This doesn't usually happen, often the 2 casters tend to cheer for the same team.
On December 01 2013 06:55 cecek wrote: What was a bit awkward is that Draskyll was cheering for Liquid and Alliance, while Tobi wanted Na'Vi and fnatic to win. So when they both talked during the match, each of them focused on the aspects that their favorite team was ahead. But they also both tried to sound like they're objectively analyzing the situation, so it got awkward and it seemed like they were arguing. This doesn't usually happen, often the 2 casters tend to cheer for the same team.
Anyway, I don't think it was that bad, really...
artosis and tasteless root for different players all the time and i never heard them fight
On December 01 2013 06:45 DucK- wrote: As I said in an earlier post, fnatic went all in with a necrobook strategy. They were banking that navi would not want to go ck wisp aggressive, since they will be laning enchant and facing an additional sunstrike. They key was to ensure enchant has no place in the radiant jungle, but they failed at it. Things just went worst after.
The SK pick is for one main reason: a good setup for sunstrike. Personally I think SD is better, but I guess they really wanted a stunner. The wr pick screwed them up, because it limits their draft.
SD became a really underrated hero, not a single team is picking him recently.
Well its a hero that isn't the greatest in a dual lane. It offers just a setup, and a defensive spell. Its best suppoting ally generally cannot jungle as well. So basically you are forced to go offensive tri or dual roam, since defensive tri is kinda pointless against an opposing solo.
It isn't the greatest in dual lane, but he is far far from bad. Unlike many other supports he isn't straight up useless when it comes to enemy having BKB and something like that. I definitely think that it would be better than most of Fnatic supports in these games.
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
he was talking about the champagne
lol .. now i feel horrible for talking nonsense :'(
On December 01 2013 06:55 cecek wrote: What was a bit awkward is that Draskyll was cheering for Liquid and Alliance, while Tobi wanted Na'Vi and fnatic to win. So when they both talked during the match, each of them focused on the aspects that their favorite team was ahead. But they also both tried to sound like they're objectively analyzing the situation, so it got awkward and it seemed like they were arguing. This doesn't usually happen, often the 2 casters tend to cheer for the same team.
Anyway, I don't think it was that bad, really...
artosis and tasteless root for different players all the time and i never heard them fight
But they've been casting together for years, Tobi and Draskyll don't cast together often at all.
Thats because Tobi isnt a team player, he is always in your face and tries to strenghten his arguments with weird childish grimaces, annoying eyerolls and fake smiles. No wonder James was so dismissive of him.
On December 01 2013 07:00 cecek wrote: SD is not good with midas and he can't farm on his own to get it. Automatically a worthless support in 6.79.
What you just said is wrong on many levels, because we saw a lot of other supports being picked that aren't rushing Midas and that aren't good at farming.
You're all hearing what you want to hear and creating conflict where there isn't any. I can't imagine watching the bland product GD Studio would be putting out if they listened to some peoples mental anguish over two people not feeling the need to avoid having their own opinion or making a perfectly normal joke between young men.
On December 01 2013 06:45 DucK- wrote: As I said in an earlier post, fnatic went all in with a necrobook strategy. They were banking that navi would not want to go ck wisp aggressive, since they will be laning enchant and facing an additional sunstrike. They key was to ensure enchant has no place in the radiant jungle, but they failed at it. Things just went worst after.
The SK pick is for one main reason: a good setup for sunstrike. Personally I think SD is better, but I guess they really wanted a stunner. The wr pick screwed them up, because it limits their draft.
SD became a really underrated hero, not a single team is picking him recently.
Well its a hero that isn't the greatest in a dual lane. It offers just a setup, and a defensive spell. Its best suppoting ally generally cannot jungle as well. So basically you are forced to go offensive tri or dual roam, since defensive tri is kinda pointless against an opposing solo.
It isn't the greatest in dual lane, but he is far far from bad. Unlike many other supports he isn't straight up useless when it comes to enemy having BKB and something like that. I definitely think that it would be better than most of Fnatic supports in these games.
I'm not saying he is bad. Its just some drawbacks, especially with the way the laning phase goes now. Personally I feel whatever SD can offer in this patch, bane can do it better. I really like this hero though, good old SD lesh
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
He was talking about the celebration... and the whole champagne thing
Disappointing finals, i really hated what Fnatic tried to do in game 2, just misplaying their draft IMO. Na'Vi looked to be in top form today.
Overall the tournament was just weird. In each set, one of the teams just looked way stronger than their opponents, and it would be the other way around the next day. The exception was probably the Liquid - Na'Vi set which was reasonably close.
I'm glad that Tobi was added to the commentary, there's noone better to do the play-by-play for actionpacked or 'epic' games. Not that there were many epic games... but he at least made the 3rd game stomp SOUND exciting, even if it really wasn't.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
I didnt say he has 0 game knowledge I said he argued too much with the caster who has been cited by the pro players as having the best game knowledge. So dont try and sandman me thanks.
On December 01 2013 06:40 calippo wrote: dota 2 players so far ahead of sc2 players :-P
I disagree i think they have their own pros and cons. In terms of mechanics and how difficult the game is then sc2 is way ahead of dota 2. In terms of popularity, complexity, team planning(yes in all MOBA games the one with the best plan wins alot), coordination with team(teamwork) and how fun the game is(i have been playing both MOBA and rts for a long time to say that MOBA is more fun since it doesnt pressure you like when you play rts but that doesnt mean its not hard) then id say say dota 2 is more fun.
He was talking about the celebration... and the whole champagne thing
lol
i'm sorry .. its 6 am here .. i am not thinking really hard lol i've been saying whatever i want to say
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
Because he used to be worse at it and has the ocasional brainfart.
People are away to critical of Tobi. Most of his comments ingame were fine, he was often right and sometimes Draskyl corrected him or just disagreed, which is expected and not really a big deal. They weren't fighting mid cast like some people implied.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
It's just because there are times where Tobi has said something wrong, and then people jump on that because he was the voice of western Dota for so long. He's not Ayesee, but on the flip side, I do think Draskyll understands the game significantly better than he does
Tobi is a top Caster and functions very well with others. Evidence for this fact can be found in hundreds of vods. I dont understand all the hate he gets, when he does nothing wrong. I myself have critizised him for shitty things he did in the past and will do so in the future, but I also give him credit when he deserves it. His cast during Dreamhack were very good, so props to him.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
It's just because there are times where Tobi has said something wrong, and then people jump on that because he was the voice of western Dota for so long. He's not Ayesee, but on the flip side, I do think Draskyll understands the game significantly better than he does
Draskyll does understands DotA 2 better than Tobi, but he still misses some key points. I don't know what is this all about, I liked this combo of casters in this Dreamhack, even though I don't agree with everything they were saying, it was quite ok for me at least.
On December 01 2013 06:37 Chessz wrote: I thought Tobi did a good job and I liked the casting set up. All the picking on Tobi really made it so awkward and unprofessional. Not to mention James' "logic" was wrong..
I agree, it seemed the GD studio guys were very cliquey and just tried to dismiss most of the stuff Tobi said, some high school shit right there.
Tobi argued too much with Draskyl during the casts over things he shouldnt because his game knowledge isnt up to it. Any seemingly cliquey pickiness came out of that for me. Except for James but then James will take a shot at anyone.
I hate the stereotype that Tobi has 0 game knowledge because it just isn't true, James just likes to be argumentative and doesn't like to admit when he is wrong.
yea wtf is this "his game knowledge isn't up to it," as if he hasn't watched literally 1000s of games, and probably played 1000+ himself (his dotabuff is not current). Can anyone explain why someone with that background couldn't argue or discuss the game beyond surface level play-by-play ?
It's just because there are times where Tobi has said something wrong, and then people jump on that because he was the voice of western Dota for so long. He's not Ayesee, but on the flip side, I do think Draskyll understands the game significantly better than he does
Draskyll does understands DotA 2 better than Tobi, but he still misses some key points. I don't know what is this all about, I liked this combo of casters in this Dreamhack, even though I don't agree with everything they were saying, it was quite ok for me at least.
I think the commentators were fine. Tobi did a good job (though I wish he got more hype for Fly's black hole on Day 1 haha) Draskyll, Tobi, and Pyrion were an odd group that ended up doing well. It's not the casters' fault that the matches/series weren't all that compelling.
Hmm when they're showing the captains mode picking screen, is that some kind of custom screen that Dreamhack is using? Or is this the new in-game look?
On December 01 2013 12:25 fuzzy_panda wrote: Hmm when they're showing the captains mode picking screen, is that some kind of custom screen that Dreamhack is using? Or is this the new in-game look?
On December 01 2013 06:15 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Man, it really wasn't much fun watching like what, 9 rollover games for all the last matches? That and the lack of production quality (long paused and the god damn audio issues) really took away from this dreamhack :/
dh allways has a schedule, cant change that
Yeh but when even the pauses between games of a match last 20-30mins, be it for TV or whatever reasons, then it's kinda annoying.
I actually think they should be more transparent on this issue. Discuss with the teams how much time they need between games and then put in a countdown for the next game. The separation between games won't go away.
After a 90 min game you need a 15 min break before the next game. Same after two medium long games in a row. Otherwise you get mediocre Dota with a lot of mistakes.
A BO5 can't be played without breaks, scheduling them in seems a better idea than just having them.
On December 01 2013 23:53 Zaphid wrote: Any chance the VoDs will make it to youtube ? I can't choose lower quality and the 1080p makes it unwatchable on my connection
This seems to be a recording of the Finals:
Just searching youtube for 'Dreamleague' gives quite a few results
On December 01 2013 23:53 Zaphid wrote: Any chance the VoDs will make it to youtube ? I can't choose lower quality and the 1080p makes it unwatchable on my connection
I found it hilarious (but kinda unprofessional) that they played darude sandstorm in game 3... Tobi says that was the super strategy that they were talking about :D
oh Hand of Midas, how ever-perplexing thou art. When to buy? When not to buy? Dota players have been struggling with these questions for over 8 years now, and still there seems to be no right answer... except for Midas on CM. That is next level stuff.
On December 03 2013 09:53 d_so wrote: oh Hand of Midas, how ever-perplexing thou art. When to buy? When not to buy? Dota players have been struggling with these questions for over 8 years now, and still there seems to be no right answer... except for Midas on CM. That is next level stuff.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.dreamhack.se/dhw13/files/2013/10/700x247-kickoff_w700_h247.png)
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GD studio | 
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