EPTwho would do better in a fight there, kunkka or ember?
not saying kunkka's stronger overall but cherry picking situations doesnt make for a gr8 case
[Hero] Kunkka - Page 9
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
who would do better in a fight there, kunkka or ember? not saying kunkka's stronger overall but cherry picking situations doesnt make for a gr8 case | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 01 2015 02:48 TheYango wrote: I mean that'd still be fine if we were playing teamcomps that leverage Ghost Ship's damage delay because for the kind of teams it's good for, it's actually better than Shallow Grave since it gets multiple people. But with the way the game plays now, Shallow Grave and Cold Embrace are just better in this regard and have been for a long time. Related to a longer-term problem where Str-based fighting carries like CK, carry Slardar, Sven, DK, etc. have not been appealing for a long time. I definitely agree with you on your last point. Simply, most str-based heroes feel quite weak. In fact, most str carries don't even have a significant stat advantage over most agi carries, and most of them don't have good skills/magical damage/mana pool or significant burst to compete with most int heroes in other roles. While I think that this meta is overall quite decent, most str heroes are weak. Only initiators/playmakers (offlanes) are really surviving. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
It makes his lane presence better, because he now has an 'orb' and makes running from him harder, because he can hit you from far away every few seconds. Or if you want to straight up buff him, make tidebringer acumulate charges like shrapnel and ember ulti, and on top of that make it usable like I said above. I think we need to make stronger the points that define the hero, not cover his weakness outright. | ||
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Saki [NETOGE]
United States235 Posts
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
Yesterday I watched Black's stream and he had !Attacker on his team. Best Kunkka player i have seen. He went 23-2 in 7K mmr game, pretty much wrecking left and right. After the game Black commended him with a line "Thanks for carry". | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
If you can snowball and find levels and farm, kunkka is outstanding. If you can't and you're constantly finding yourself on the defensive with no farm, then carry kunkka was a waste of a farming position. I'm not sure if he's bad or good tbh bc I haven't played him in a long while..but whenever I see someone else playing him this is just the pattern that I notice. | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
On February 03 2016 04:12 BluemoonSC wrote: Attacker! is a known kunkka prodigy. I'd bet they were playing AP instead of CM though..to make kunkka work you either have to be a god (like Attacker! is with the hero) or you have to have someone that can help you reliably combo in a team fight early so you can get farm/levels. If you can snowball and find levels and farm, kunkka is outstanding. If you can't and you're constantly finding yourself on the defensive with no farm, then carry kunkka was a waste of a farming position. I'm not sure if he's bad or good tbh bc I haven't played him in a long while..but whenever I see someone else playing him this is just the pattern that I notice. Yes they were playing AP. Anyways I agree with you. Basically the team hero compositon would have to revolve around Kunkka (especially make use of his rum buff, which is very powerfull). But such a team would probably be easily countered or figured out really quickly and then Kunkka would fall off again. I still don't think he is underpowered as some people here saying. You could call him a worse version of ember or disruptor, but that is just not true. Ember has no rum buff or x mark on enemies and disruptor does have no cleave/phys damage potential. Kunkka is just special and that's why I like him. I would be happy to see him in competitive games at least some times, but wouldn't like changing of his skills mechanics. Maybe improve some timings or damage, but not a total overhaul like in Riki's or PL's case. | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On February 04 2016 01:09 Ricjames wrote: Yes they were playing AP. Anyways I agree with you. Basically the team hero compositon would have to revolve around Kunkka (especially make use of his rum buff, which is very powerfull). But such a team would probably be easily countered or figured out really quickly and then Kunkka would fall off again. I still don't think he is underpowered as some people here saying. You could call him a worse version of ember or disruptor, but that is just not true. Ember has no rum buff or x mark on enemies and disruptor does have no cleave/phys damage potential. Kunkka is just special and that's why I like him. I would be happy to see him in competitive games at least some times, but wouldn't like changing of his skills mechanics. Maybe improve some timings or damage, but not a total overhaul like in Riki's or PL's case. Also remember that professional picks are very trend based--jugg got buffed a billion patches in a row and went unpicked until people figured out the mom + stats build, and "all of a sudden" he was an OP hero. I would argue that when people realize armlet kunkka is amazing he might see some situational picks. | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
On February 04 2016 01:57 xxpack09 wrote: Also remember that professional picks are very trend based--jugg got buffed a billion patches in a row and went unpicked until people figured out the mom + stats build, and "all of a sudden" he was an OP hero. I would argue that when people realize armlet kunkka is amazing he might see some situational picks. Oh man that would be awesome. I think he is definitely a viable pick in the right hands and good team composition. Let's hope we can see him a little more in the future. Is it just me or the armlet build is much better than shadowblade on Kunkka. I would even say that shadow blade is not good at all. Usually when I go shadowblade, it just feels much weaker than when I go Drums + Armlet. Also the mana cost on shadow blade is a little annoying for Kunkka's mana pool. What are your toughts on Offlane Kunkka? There are 2 or 3 variants: 1) Solo Offlane - Is this viable? I think he can get some cs thanks to torrent or tidebringer. He doesn't have an escape mechanism, but can work with a decent hp pool. The big problem is that Kunkka needs items to become strong for mid game. 2) Dual Offlane - This could be a pretty strong strategy that would let Kunkka farm and maybe get some kills or shut down enemy farm. What would be a suitable support for this strategy? 3) Offensive trilane - This might catch the enemy offguard and also seems pretty strong trilane option. Any good combinations recommended? I still like to play Kunkka in mid if possible. Probably the most fitting position right now. | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
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VandenPlause
United States37 Posts
I found an interesting article: Here | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
On February 04 2016 19:20 Ricjames wrote: Oh man that would be awesome. I think he is definitely a viable pick in the right hands and good team composition. Let's hope we can see him a little more in the future. Is it just me or the armlet build is much better than shadowblade on Kunkka. I would even say that shadow blade is not good at all. Usually when I go shadowblade, it just feels much weaker than when I go Drums + Armlet. Also the mana cost on shadow blade is a little annoying for Kunkka's mana pool. What are your toughts on Offlane Kunkka? There are 2 or 3 variants: 1) Solo Offlane - Is this viable? I think he can get some cs thanks to torrent or tidebringer. He doesn't have an escape mechanism, but can work with a decent hp pool. The big problem is that Kunkka needs items to become strong for mid game. 2) Dual Offlane - This could be a pretty strong strategy that would let Kunkka farm and maybe get some kills or shut down enemy farm. What would be a suitable support for this strategy? 3) Offensive trilane - This might catch the enemy offguard and also seems pretty strong trilane option. Any good combinations recommended? I still like to play Kunkka in mid if possible. Probably the most fitting position right now. Dunno, sb just gives you a lot. It adds a shitton of damage on tidebringer, gives you the ability to solo kill people and surprise combo people in teamfights. It also gives you the ability to reposition yourself in teamfights, which is invaluable for Kunka. Armlet on the other hand mainly makes you a better fighter. But Kunka is a terrible fighter to begin with, I don't really see him go manfight people unless you are snowballing like crazy. 1) Kunka has the lowest hp at lvl 1 of any strength hero iirc. He also can't fight supports at lvl 1. Honestly I don't see it. 2) In pubs everything goes. You can go the 2:4:0 build if you have a setup stun like impale or earthspike. There's also the possibility to x into arrow f.e. Kunka is pretty decent in lane if the enemy can't kill him, so he does well against defensive lanes. 3) Not too big of a fan of Kunka aggro tri. He really needs levels and around lvl 2-3 he lacks damage. Still things like bane mirana kunka f.e. can work. | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
On July 03 2016 08:41 VandenPlause wrote: Does anyone have any experieince or tips on Support Kunkka? I found an interesting article: Here I've actually been playing a bit of support kunkka lately. I've been going with maxing X first then torrent. It's guaranteed boat every boat CD. It's really great at setting up kills for any lane. I've done arcane boots into a mobility item but I wonder if I should go arcane -> aether -> mobility. After the mobility item you can get another mobility item if needed or even go aghs, which seems to be decent. There's also urn to consider getting. It's really fun because you just run around and x boat torrent whoever is the best victim for the situation. | ||
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juracule
292 Posts
On February 03 2016 04:12 Blackfeather wrote: 1) Kunka has the lowest hp at lvl 1 of any strength hero iirc. He also can't fight supports at lvl 1. Honestly I don't see it. he literally starts with 680 base hp LMAO | ||
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tubbablubba
Italy9 Posts
When used on allies it's very strong though, it basically makes every hero a mini-ember escape-wise. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Yeah you are right, his base stats are better than I remembered, it's his strength gain that was terrible. Still the point stands that he should have a hard time to stay in exp range. No escape and no survivability tool. On July 04 2016 01:18 DucK- wrote: I disagree in how lanm runs support kunkka. He always go for armlet etc, maxing tide first. Very inflexible. Sometimes in games that don't go well, early maxed X and torrent can do so much work with nothing but levels. The chinese scene seems somewhat inflexible with builds, dunno. Also x is very similar to glimpse, it's one of the strongest abilities in the game if you are ahead. I don't really see any reason to max tidebringer first unless you actually farm/lane a lot or are super low in the damage department. I guess Lamn will have his reasons. I can only wonder what they are though. | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On July 04 2016 12:14 Blackfeather wrote: Yeah you are right, his base stats are better than I remembered, it's his strength gain that was terrible. Still the point stands that he should have a hard time to stay in exp range. No escape and no survivability tool. The chinese scene seems somewhat inflexible with builds, dunno. Also x is very similar to glimpse, it's one of the strongest abilities in the game if you are ahead. I don't really see any reason to max tidebringer first unless you actually farm/lane a lot or are super low in the damage department. I guess Lamn will have his reasons. I can only wonder what they are though. Most importantly, he's not a very good jungler, so there's no reason to run him offlane unless you're doing some weird aggressive lane (which is rare in this meta) | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
On July 04 2016 12:14 Blackfeather wrote: Yeah you are right, his base stats are better than I remembered, it's his strength gain that was terrible. Still the point stands that he should have a hard time to stay in exp range. No escape and no survivability tool. The chinese scene seems somewhat inflexible with builds, dunno. Also x is very similar to glimpse, it's one of the strongest abilities in the game if you are ahead. I don't really see any reason to max tidebringer first unless you actually farm/lane a lot or are super low in the damage department. I guess Lamn will have his reasons. I can only wonder what they are though. Er Kunkka has 3.0 Str gain. That's pretty high... He tends to be squishy because his agi gain sucks and he rarely itemizes armor. | ||
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