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On May 26 2014 20:57 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 20:16 rabidch wrote:On May 26 2014 19:39 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) sticky + quell spray works as well works, but its not really worth mentioning versus rot. rot ticks every 0.2 seconds, which makes every stack do 50/75/100/125 damage per second, which is utterly ridiculous. but you die with rot  and it depends on your hero if the hero has huge HP and strength gain while using quill spray reduces your chances of dying and you can kite better than rot .. i think DS ion shell would work better
You can't even compare sticky napalm with rot and sticky napalm with quill spray. Who cares if you take a little bit of damage when your enemy dies in 3s. Quill spray is also behind other worse combos like dark pact and diabolict edict. A 3s CD skill is not that broken with it.
On May 26 2014 21:12 GGitsJack wrote:
I know voodoo restoration works with overload / arcane aura. Anyone know if it works with aftershock or fiery soul?
It doesn't. All toggles work with Overload/Essence Aura, no toggles work with the other similar skills.
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On May 26 2014 20:57 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 20:16 rabidch wrote:On May 26 2014 19:39 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) sticky + quell spray works as well works, but its not really worth mentioning versus rot. rot ticks every 0.2 seconds, which makes every stack do 50/75/100/125 damage per second, which is utterly ridiculous. but you die with rot and it depends on your hero if the hero has huge HP and strength gain while using quill spray reduces your chances of dying and you can kite better than rot .. i think DS ion shell would work better
sticky with pretty much any dot is good. And if rot is in the pool so is flesh heap, but it's not actually even needed you won't be rotting for ages when u have even a couple of stacks of napalm on the target.
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my friends are always trying to get me to play ability draft.....maybe ill swipe one of those broken combos and finally give in to their demands...>:D
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Do you guys think that Mana Shield and Fiery Soul combo is good? Almost permanent move speed and attack speed bonus must be nice, but I guess those two picks are weak with two semi-passive abilities. It's fun when I get it, makes it a lot easier in the laning stage.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 26 2014 20:57 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 20:16 rabidch wrote:On May 26 2014 19:39 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) sticky + quell spray works as well works, but its not really worth mentioning versus rot. rot ticks every 0.2 seconds, which makes every stack do 50/75/100/125 damage per second, which is utterly ridiculous. but you die with rot and it depends on your hero if the hero has huge HP and strength gain while using quill spray reduces your chances of dying and you can kite better than rot .. i think DS ion shell would work better
Sticky+0.1/0.2s tick DoTs is specifically broken. Anything that ticks 1s or on cast like Quill Spray or normal DoTs simply is not comparable.
Between 0.1s tick DoTs (Shackles, Dark Pact, Rot, Ion Shell, Mystic Flare, etc.), which one is the most broken for your particular game depends on your base model and skill pool. Rot has the distinct advantage that it costs no mana, so you can do shit like 1-2 stack Napalm + 1-2s Rot tick to flashfarm with virtually zero cost.
If you really care about the self-damage, you can just leave Rot at rank 1 and level your 3rd skill, because you really just need the damage ticks to trigger Napalm every 0.2s and apply the slow--the damage of the other ranks is pretty minor compared to the damage rate of Napalm.
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On May 27 2014 00:38 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 20:57 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 20:16 rabidch wrote:On May 26 2014 19:39 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) sticky + quell spray works as well works, but its not really worth mentioning versus rot. rot ticks every 0.2 seconds, which makes every stack do 50/75/100/125 damage per second, which is utterly ridiculous. but you die with rot and it depends on your hero if the hero has huge HP and strength gain while using quill spray reduces your chances of dying and you can kite better than rot .. i think DS ion shell would work better You can't even compare sticky napalm with rot and sticky napalm with quill spray. Who cares if you take a little bit of damage when your enemy dies in 3s. Quill spray is also behind other worse combos like dark pact and diabolict edict. A 3s CD skill is not that broken with it.
Idk never underestimate rot dude .. it only works on pudge because he got insane HP even with insane HP it still drowns you to the drain .. well it works if your hero has high HP like balanar or centaur you know the standard 1k hp at level 6 .. and you have to remember you have to stack napalm before you can go near and rot people it takes time .. i'd rather have quell spray despite lesser damage but you can safely damage than risky rot ..
Or maybe i am overestimating and completely wrong but just from what i observed rot is succesful due to the following reasons. Pudge has high hp and str gain. Rot cost nothing and he has ook. Without hook it's very hard to go near the enemy without the opponent doing something even with napalm unless you have high MS. And there is no hero that i can think of that has high MS and high HP.
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United States47024 Posts
Pudge has to level Rot because he doesn't have Napalm to trigger it. Napalm+Rot is such that if you really think the self-damage is bad for your base model, it still works with rank 1 Rot, which is miniscule self damage for monstrous damage to Napalmed enemies still.
Napalm+0.1/0.2s DoTs is a completely different level of broken. If you can get Napalm with any of the 0.1s/0.2s tick DoTs, you simply don't consider any of the other skills in the pool.
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Hmmm maybe i should try it on wc3 dota just to see .. finally a reason to play wc3 dota again besides techies :D but yeah if most of you guys believe it's fine .. then i should be wrong most likely
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United States47024 Posts
It doesn't work in War3 DotA because Napalm has a damage-based trigger threshold, so it fails to trigger on DoTs that trigger in small amounts like Rot or Ion Shell.
It specifically works in DotA 2 because Valve didn't use a damage-based threshold for Napalm, but rather hard-coded the exceptions like Radiance and Orb of Venom. In normal play this has minimal difference, it specifically affects ability draft because of how you can get Napalm with these skills.
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On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway)
Had it in there, accidentally taken it out.
On May 27 2014 03:18 Phelix wrote:
Do you guys think that Mana Shield and Fiery Soul combo is good? Almost permanent move speed and attack speed bonus must be nice, but I guess those two picks are weak with two semi-passive abilities. It's fun when I get it, makes it a lot easier in the laning stage.
The combo works? I know someone grabbed voodoo restoration and Fiery Soul and did nothing with it recently in a game I played.
I think max attack speed is far superior on a melee character since you can pair a basher with it. It's a really good combo, but not completely broken
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On May 27 2014 05:11 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) Had it in there, accidentally taken it out. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 03:18 Phelix wrote:
Do you guys think that Mana Shield and Fiery Soul combo is good? Almost permanent move speed and attack speed bonus must be nice, but I guess those two picks are weak with two semi-passive abilities. It's fun when I get it, makes it a lot easier in the laning stage. The combo works? I know someone grabbed voodoo restoration and Fiery Soul and did nothing with it recently in a game I played. I think max attack speed is far superior on a melee character since you can pair a basher with it. It's a really good combo, but not completely broken
No it doesn't work, but any low CD + fiery soul is a broken combo on any character. Low mana cost spells like Plague Wards or Quill Spray are the best ones. Shukuchi is hilarious but you shouldn't be able to get that. Blink is also pretty crazy.
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On May 27 2014 03:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 20:57 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 20:16 rabidch wrote:On May 26 2014 19:39 goody153 wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) sticky + quell spray works as well works, but its not really worth mentioning versus rot. rot ticks every 0.2 seconds, which makes every stack do 50/75/100/125 damage per second, which is utterly ridiculous. but you die with rot and it depends on your hero if the hero has huge HP and strength gain while using quill spray reduces your chances of dying and you can kite better than rot .. i think DS ion shell would work better Sticky+0.1/0.2s tick DoTs is specifically broken. Anything that ticks 1s or on cast like Quill Spray or normal DoTs simply is not comparable. Between 0.1s tick DoTs (Shackles, Dark Pact, Rot, Ion Shell, Mystic Flare, etc.), which one is the most broken for your particular game depends on your base model and skill pool. Rot has the distinct advantage that it costs no mana, so you can do shit like 1-2 stack Napalm + 1-2s Rot tick to flashfarm with virtually zero cost.
I would say Rot and Ion Shell are clear winners. Which one is better depends if you have mana, Ion shell does is faster but you kill quickly enough with Rot for the no mana cost to be meaningful. But I don't think I would ever replace either of them with the others.
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Nice list, but for the most of the S ranked abilities I would say it's highly situational (overrated imo). A lot of the S ranked abilities are frequently picked first and people tend to keep stacking them with other passives. While that is great in theory and has great late game potential it rarely goes that way. From my experiance stuns and disables (or just spells with low cd and high damage) tend to win more games than for example Tidebringer or Focusfire.
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On May 27 2014 07:37 Manijak wrote:
Nice list, but for the most of the S ranked abilities I would say it's highly situational (overrated imo). A lot of the S ranked abilities are frequently picked first and people tend to keep stacking them with other passives. While that is great in theory and has great late game potential it rarely goes that way. From my experiance stuns and disables (or just spells with low cd and high damage) tend to win more games than for example Tidebringer or Focusfire.
Focus Fire doesn't win games, solid stuns are ussually better. Tidebringer on ranged definatelly can. Also, just because you picked either of them doesn't mean you should keep picking passives. Fury Swipes + stun is much better than Fury Swipes + crit. Ussually if you pick a carry that needs a couple of items to start being decent, and it doesn't win the game singlehandely by that point, you probally shouldn't have built a carry. I do think that the most common mistake people do is drafting useless carries.
The thing is, if you pick a broken skill like Chemical Rage or Grow and all your other teammates try to build worse carries with suff like Coup de Grace or bashes, while your opponents pick all disables, you lose. It's a game mode where you depend a lot on what your teammates do, so it can be quite random if you don't stack.
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On May 27 2014 05:19 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 05:11 LSB wrote:On May 26 2014 17:43 rabidch wrote:
you forgot sticky + rot, which makes rot not F (its more like D, situational anyway) Had it in there, accidentally taken it out. On May 27 2014 03:18 Phelix wrote:
Do you guys think that Mana Shield and Fiery Soul combo is good? Almost permanent move speed and attack speed bonus must be nice, but I guess those two picks are weak with two semi-passive abilities. It's fun when I get it, makes it a lot easier in the laning stage. The combo works? I know someone grabbed voodoo restoration and Fiery Soul and did nothing with it recently in a game I played. I think max attack speed is far superior on a melee character since you can pair a basher with it. It's a really good combo, but not completely broken No it doesn't work, but any low CD + fiery soul is a broken combo on any character. Low mana cost spells like Plague Wards or Quill Spray are the best ones. Shukuchi is hilarious but you shouldn't be able to get that. Blink is also pretty crazy.
Right, sorry. I believe that got fixed in a patch that affected Fiery Soul. Shows how much I know about ability draft that a I have not played in a while.
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Hero list is lacking Disruptor as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure I got him before in one of my drafts.
On the spell tiering:
Rearm is a little bit too situational to your base hero model and your other skills to be S-rank.
There seems to be a little biased tilt to physical defensive passives (blur, craggy exterior, dragon's blood, all B) as compared to magical defensive passives (flesh heap, spell shield, both C). They're all fairly situational (read:terrible) and should be ranked the same. Backtrack is pretty good spell though.
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Since this is a general tier list. How about tiers on heroes? Some heroes are just plain bad in the mode.
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gosh should have read this thread before playing AD... just drafted Eclipse first 0.0
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On May 28 2014 15:23 Yurie wrote:
Since this is a general tier list. How about tiers on heroes? Some heroes are just plain bad in the mode.
Listing some notable heroes:
Alchemist: D - Garbage stat gain
Bane: B - Above average base damage, movement speed, and starting stats
Batrider: C - Garbage base damage
Centaur Warrunner: S - Strength
Clinkz: D - Garbage base damage and stat gain
Crystal Maiden: F - Garbage everything
Dark Seer: B
Enchantress: D - Clinkz tier
Gyrocopter: B
Legion Commander: A
Naga Siren: A
Night Stalker: S - Double Aghs upgrade
Pugna: B - High movement speed and intelligence gain, but very squishy
Silencer: S - Innate intelligence steal, Buffed agility gain
Skywrath Mage: B - Pugna tier
Timbersaw: C - Melee hero with no armor
Tiny: C - Melee hero with no armor - Above average base damage - Bad agility and intelligence gain
Treant Protector: S - Draft an orb, win game (120dmg searing arrows) - Good stat gain
Visage: C - Very squishy
Weaver: D - Combination of Clinkz and Crystal Maiden while trading range for damage
Windrunner: A - Great BAT and attack animation
Strength Heroes: B
Agility Heroes: C
Intelligence Heroes: B
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Table_of_Hero_attributes
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I don't feel a hero tier list is needed because there's nothing it actually does for you. You can't pick them; if you're stuck with CM, knowing that she's an F helps you not at all.
I suppose a list of applications might be useful. Like, int heroes who are surprisingly okay to carry with, str/agi who have reasonable manapools/cast animations, that kind of thing.
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EPT
