|
![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/1/1d/Jakiro.png) Jakiro
Even among magical beasts, a twin-headed dragon is a freak. Equal parts ice and fire, cunning and rage, the creature known as Jakiro glides over charred and ice-bound battlefields, laying waste to any who would bear arms against it. Pyrexae dragon clutches always contain two fledglings. Famous for their viciousness even from the first moments of life, newly hatched dragons of this species will try to kill their sibling while still in the nest. Only the strongest survive. In this way is the strength of the Pyrexae line ensured. By some accident of nature, the freak Jakiro hatched from a single egg, combining in a single individual the full range of abilities found within the diverse Pyrexae species. Trapped within the armature of its monstrous body, the powers of ice and fire combine, and now no enemy is safe.
Liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Jakiro
---
Why is there no Jakiro thread? Since the Liquid Fire change, he seems to have gotten a lot more love in recent games.
MVP Phoenix in particular have shown some nice push strats with a support Jakiro in tow.
I think the biggest change to Liquid Fire is that you can choose when to use it now, used to be so awful as it insta-pushed lanes whenever you right clicked a creep.
Anybody else looking forward to a resurgence of the Twin-Headed Dragon? He's probably not as strong as he was in 6.75 (when he was basically Earthshaker without the blocking of allies part), but I think he can definitely make a resurgence now that defensive supports seem to be meta. He pairs really well with Shadow Demon for one. And I think he'd pair well with Sand King and Wraith King too.
His biggest drawback though might be the fact that he doesn't really have a reliable stun which gimps your support choices as you'd ideally like to pair him with a support that can lock down your opponent to setup your Ice Path.
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
i heard he was played as a carry by EE or something? gotta watch that!
|
Yup! It was in ESL One vs Empire.
He still mostly got utility items with the farm:
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=671187750
But it was still pretty amazing to see.
The ESL One games are free to watch, iirc. So you can even download the game and watch it on client
|
United States15275 Posts
Is it time for me to unveil the forbidden secrets of mid Jakiro? D:
Just kidding, I think he's an underrated support whose value will rise once teams use his Liquid Fire builds more aggressively.
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
in which situations should you skill him which way? i usually max ice path/liquid fire and mostly neglect dual breath, but i play mostly 5 so yeah.
|
level 1 dual breath is a pretty good value point tho since you're taking it for the slow early on
|
support void, carry jakiro
legitimate strategy???
|
Wrote similar in another thread since I play him quite a lot.... I think the problem with Jakiro is that hes kinda good at a lot of things but kinda never the best at anything. In a way its of course good to be versatile, but I always feel that for competitive games there should almost always be better pickups. His skills are all good by themselves but as support when you need to make yourself useful without being maxed out in all skills you're always sacrificing something.
For laning, Icepath is very meh. DB is good for the slow (always gives you multiple rightclicks due to its fairly long duration) and LF is just free harassment on the enemy hero/es. Skilling DB > LF > IP makes him a pretty high damage dealer and pretty good laner. LF spam is obnoxious do deal with when you're facing Jakiro in lane. But you're lacking that fairly long duration stun for teamfights until really late in the game.
On the other hand, skilling LF first makes him into kind of a Pugna. 4sec LF cd on lvl 7 is rediculous for pushing towers. But the problem is that Pugnas Q and 4-1-1-1 is strong for fighting too, but for Jakiro 1-1-4-1 makes him a very sub-par fighter. So while you can skill yourself to an incredibly strong pusher, thats about the only thing you'll be able to do well in that case.
Then theres the DB > IP > LF or IP > DB > LF builds which gets you well prepared into that good teamfight stage. You got your AoE nuke and AoE stun which can turn teamfights around. But there you have little to no pushing power and I dont think its ideal for laning either since no free LF harassment.
On top of that the ulti is quite meh if you have nothing to set it up with and also meh if you dont skill IP early on. But I do feel theres plenty of situations where skipping the ult is legit in pubs since you'll often be lacking the wombo combo potential. Or even if you have it, it will be hard to pull off.
Out of all my Jakiro games I've used plenty of different skill builds (just about all the above) and as I said: versality is good but I cant help feeling there would always be something better for whatever strength you're aiming for.
|
1-4-4-x always. Dual breath is too shitty of a spell. Its only use is to contribute a further slow to a disabled enemy, and to farm creeps later on.
|
On May 22 2014 02:04 DucK- wrote:
1-4-4-x always. Dual breath is too shitty of a spell. Its only use is to contribute a further slow to a disabled enemy, and to farm creeps later on.
How so? I mean I sort of agree with it in general, but more because liquid fire and ice path are really good spells. DB gets +100 dmg per rank which is pretty awesome. I could see the wisdom of a 2-4-4-x build (like the eternal envy build linked earlier) because you're getting a lot of extra early game damage for a single point, way more than 1 more point in Liquid Fire or Ice Path would get you. 1 Point in DB gives you 10 damage/second compared to LF/Ice path which only offer like 1-3 damage/sec boost when you factor in the cooldowns (even without cooldowns DB is 20dmg/sec compared to 5dmg/sec of LF). Of course you skill LF/Ice Path for other reasons, but I can still see the argument for additional DB points in certain game situations.
I feel like part of the Dual Breath hate is because we always skill it last and use it's lackluster late game performance as a reason why it sucks.
It just feels odd to call something that deals 180 dmg at level 2 and 380 dmg at level 4 while slowing a crappy skill. At level 2 it only does 20 less dmg than Veno's Gale, but 3 times as fast with a longer range with a longer range and wider AoE.
|
United States15275 Posts
Macropyre is underwhelming at level 1 and it eats up 40% of your mana pool for a static DoT spell that doesn't even stick to targets. I think it's always better to skip it unless you have serious early-game lockdown.
On May 22 2014 02:04 DucK- wrote:
1-4-4-x always. Dual breath is too shitty of a spell. Its only use is to contribute a further slow to a disabled enemy, and to farm creeps later on.
When you go 1-4-4 you're just a glorified stun with decent DoT. If you have a Shadow Demon or something I guess it's fine but your lane control is pretty weak. If you really insist on focusing on Ice Path, then 2-2-4 is the more balanced build. Level 2 Dual Breath is worthwhile just for the amazing scaling (5 mana for 100 more damage? Yes please!).
|
Dang I was planning on doing Jakiro for a weekly thread. (I don't want to spam the forums so I do one hero thread every wednesday)
Anyway, as an avid Jakiro player, I go 4-1-4. I think that should be the standard build.
With a maxed Ice Path, the enemy is only disabled 1.2 seconds longer than level 1 ice path. (level 1 is 1 sec and level 4 is 2.2 sec)
Ice Path is simply not worth maxing out early. Dual Breath on the other hand is an insanely obnoxious skill.
Dual Breath is easier to hit multiple targets with, lasts 5 seconds, and the damage is just too good. 285 damage when maxed (380-25% magic resist).
Now I know it's not favored because of the scary looking mana cost (170 when maxed) but Jakiro definitely has the pool for it if you manage mana well and start with 2 clarities.
It is definitely a huge cripple to the enemy, they will be annoyed with constantly being on low hp and you have the slow to ruin their escape.
I'll say it again, you don't need to max Ice Path. Keep it at one point to disrupt channels and the like. Wasting 3 more skill points for an extra 1.2 seconds is stupid and unnecessary and doesn't make the difference you need early game.
Liquid Fire is your free harass. Manually casting it allows you to fire at 600 range, which is much safer than Jakiro's 400 attack range. This was a great buff and gives Jakiro strong lane presence. The 50 attack speed reduction to towers makes siegeing the easiest job in the world.
|
4-1-4 means an eternity before you get Ice Path level 4 though. While early on having a high level Ice Path is less damage, when you have a reliable mana source you can expect to be able to Ice Path multiple times in a fight for a 2s duration each time. Plus as other heroes come online the extra damage from Dual Breath is less and less significant. You can't ignore the CD reduction in each rank of Ice Path.To put it in mathy terms Ice Path level 4 lets you keep enemies stunned 25% of the time while Ice Path level 1 is only 8% of the time.
I think 2 or 3 points in Dual Breath is more reasonable and provides a better transition from some early game damage presence to using Ice Path and Macropyre in teamfights at level 11+.
|
Just my opinion. Jakiro has a fairly good win rate according to dotabuff, and the most popular build is 4-4-0-1. (bleh)
I think it works out because a longer duration Ice Path synergizes better with the cast time of his ultimate, but these pub players are completely sacrificing Liquid Fire, which gives him crazy good early game dominance at no cost.
|
His E is just way too strong to skip early game. The attackspeed slow on towers makes for so easy pushes. And he doesn't have the mana pool to support both Q and W early anyway so. 1-4-4 or 4-1-4 are both fine imo but skipping E is not very smart imo.
|
You shouldnt be arguing whats the standard build. The fact that you even try to argue a standard build is the wrong mindset (but I know it's very common, probably more so at lower level). You should be arguing when what build is the best because theres not a snowballs chance in hell theres an "always the best" build for Jakiro.
|
Jakiro is one of those heroes whereby the only reason you skill dual breath early is because you cannot make good use of liquid fire.
|
On May 22 2014 06:53 aeroblaster wrote:
Just my opinion. Jakiro has a fairly good win rate according to dotabuff, and the most popular build is 4-4-0-1. (bleh)
I think it works out because a longer duration Ice Path synergizes better with the cast time of his ultimate, but these pub players are completely sacrificing Liquid Fire, which gives him crazy good early game dominance at no cost.
Part of this may be data from before all of the Liquid Fire buffs (manual cast & 600 range). That or just carry over habit from that time. Plus while his most popular build is 4-4-0, he has the highest winrate when he maxes Liquid Fire by 7.
|
On May 22 2014 18:40 DucK- wrote:
Jakiro is one of those heroes whereby the only reason you skill dual breath early is because you cannot make good use of liquid fire.
I'm not sure if it is that simple. I always skill DB over LF if for example we have an afk farming carry and the enemy team has a pushing/early game fighting lineup. Having a few points into DB for the extra AOE damage to make up for carry not helping and the push stopping is quite important in this situation.
|
From the games I've played and the ones I've seen maxing out Liquid Fire is key, adding some solid damage, attack speed slow and turning him into a tower pusher is something which should be never underestimated. Then it is a matter of whether to max out either Dual Breath or Ice Path, but not the two simultaneously due to mana costs. Do you want an additional 100 damage per level on Dual Breath with slows which don't change, or a slightly longer linear stun of 0.4 seconds? Ice Path might not be too powerful early game but it does help with setting up engagements or buying time and at maxed out 2.2 seconds it isn't something to be ignored.
Dual Breath is nice and all but leaving it at level 2 is acceptable if you are looking more for the MS+AS slows of Jakiro than his raw damage output. And Macropyre isn't a particularly good spell unless you've got another crowd control spell of sorts cause heroes can merely escape, and the mana cost is too intensive to really justify it at level 6. Going 2-4-4-X seems a reasonable optimization of Jakiro's skills to me, maxing out Q next and leveling R at your own discretion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
