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On July 07 2014 11:45 Belisarius wrote:
What you should do is entirely dependent on what the team can do. Looking for a silver bullet solo support play really doesn't make a lot of sense, especially against 5 man.
Your objectives are:
slow them down (via antipush or pickoff)
trade towers and farm elsewhere
As a support, you usually can't do any one of those things alone unless you're unexpectedly fed and on exactly the right hero, like nyx, kotl or rhasta.
Normally, what you, specifically, have to do is nudge the team into doing the right thing. A lot of the time this involves making sure they have vision so your splitpushers feel safer, and making sure you are there early so your cores have short TPs in. If your team are stupid, you pretty much just have to roll with it with those objectives in mind.
ok thanks
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On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only)
hmm I always use this location
+ Show Spoiler +
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On July 07 2014 14:15 Jaeger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only) hmm I always use this location + Show Spoiler +
I'm sure that works too, I think it just leaves you less time to move ahead of the creepwave to block
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On July 07 2014 11:03 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 10:05 Rocket-Bear wrote:
If you have a good push hero like Rhasta / Veno / THD you should try to take towers elsewhere. If you have better lategame, you need to try to get there on as even terms with the enemy team as possible. Losing towers without getting any towers in return will just force your team too much into the base and no one will get farmed enough to win lategame anyway.
If you have 4 heroes that can decently defend towers you should do that and the carry should TP in to help when the fight has started if he can get a few easy kill-secures and then run off. If you just lose the fight if you try to defend then don't. Losing a tower > Losing a tower and heroes. Try to get any farm you can on the map and try to pressure elsewhere. Getting tower kills are really important. Don't lose all outer towers while you get nothing in return. Way too much mapcontrol lost.
Having good wards, and trying to pick off heroes that fall a bit behind, or before the enemy team regrouped is also a way. Teams are reluctant to push if one of them are dead. So constantly picking off one who fell a bit behind can buy you the time needed. Sometimes it feels like they are always together, but they really aren't. They will split up after towers, by tp'ing to defend split push and what not. Never seen a 5man team, do a 5man TP to a tower and start pushing that lane.
If you can do neither off those then well, game is hard and you sort of got outdrafted. Hero lineup matters in pubs as well, even though not as much. But sometimes you can just straight up lose if you don't have the heroes to counter their strategy at all. Thanks for the reply. But I am asking for what I should do. I know what the team should do. I am asking from a support's perspective. These games are the ones that I lose. I am more asking about what I specifically can do, and not what the team can do in a whole. Do you see what I mean?
What I do, ask to mates : "Sack? Trade? Def?" With an emphasis on what you think is the better choice, for exemple if I believe we should trade I just ask "go for trade?". It's better to follow the general team flow in dota as a collective effort towards a non optimal play is still better than a solo effort towards the optimal play.
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On July 07 2014 16:18 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 14:15 Jaeger wrote:On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only) hmm I always use this location + Show Spoiler + I'm sure that works too, I think it just leaves you less time to move ahead of the creepwave to block
Yea, not sure if you can properly block with invoker or other slow heroes.
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1. Is there ever a reason to have 2 couriers at the same time?
I find it's helpful to have 2 couriers cuz then I don't have to wait on people and they don't steal my courier. It's like having more stalls in a bathroom.
Sometimes getting that tango/ward/dust 30s faster makes me feel like it helped me not die or to get a kill or both.
2. If you are playing bane, or disruptor, or magnus, or leshrac and you don't feel like you have enough mana what do you get? Ring of Aquila feels like a waste because it provides too much agi, and bloodstones and their components feel like they come too late. Arcane boots? Bottle? Clarity pots?
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If you want to buy your own, go ahead and use your gold. Certainly don't expect your team to buy a second one, and you better upgrade it yourself and not bitch at your supports to do it for you
Arcane boots, ferry clarities, wand, urn are your typical earlyish game mana items
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On July 07 2014 19:57 obesechicken13 wrote:
1. Is there ever a reason to have 2 couriers at the same time?
I find it's helpful to have 2 couriers cuz then I don't have to wait on people and they don't steal my courier. It's like having more stalls in a bathroom.
Sometimes getting that tango/ward/dust 30s faster makes me feel like it helped me not die or to get a kill or both.
2. If you are playing bane, or disruptor, or magnus, or leshrac and you don't feel like you have enough mana what do you get? Ring of Aquila feels like a waste because it provides too much agi, and bloodstones and their components feel like they come too late. Arcane boots? Bottle? Clarity pots?
I play disruptor pretty decently and I only need Magic stick + Urn for mana regen (I like tranquil boots on supports if your team doesn't massively need arcanes). It's more about how you use your mana. Same with Bane.
Magnus Lesh needs mana boots most of the time. You can go Euls on Lesh, also helps a bit. Assuming we are talking about support Lesh here. If you are mid, there are a lot of options.
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I don't see why you'd go Aquila rather than remaining at Basilius until disassembling or selling it, or going full Vlad's if your team is deathballing.
You can also consider a casual sage's mask, medallion or soul ring. An extra Sage's mask is the cheapest option and builds out well, Medallion is mainly for armor or damage but enables an early Rosh, and Soul Ring is a premium mana source on heroes with self-healing.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On July 07 2014 18:48 Andre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 16:18 ahswtini wrote:On July 07 2014 14:15 Jaeger wrote:On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only) hmm I always use this location + Show Spoiler + I'm sure that works too, I think it just leaves you less time to move ahead of the creepwave to block Yea, not sure if you can properly block with invoker or other slow heroes.
I have more trouble with heroes that have stupidly small hitboxes. My most recent example of this is clinkz.
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On July 08 2014 01:06 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 18:48 Andre wrote:On July 07 2014 16:18 ahswtini wrote:On July 07 2014 14:15 Jaeger wrote:On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only) hmm I always use this location + Show Spoiler + I'm sure that works too, I think it just leaves you less time to move ahead of the creepwave to block Yea, not sure if you can properly block with invoker or other slow heroes. I have more trouble with heroes that have stupidly small hitboxes. My most recent example of this is clinkz.
he still has 24 collision size o.O
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Yea, everyone should have the same collision size. I believe the only exception is PL. I think some other heroes might've had different collision sizes in the past but there was a patch that all reduced them to the same size iirc.
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naga has tiny collision too iirc (for the same reason as PL I think, to reduce BS illusion surrounds).
E: 6.60
Reduced collision size (24->8)
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United States47024 Posts
Naga, PL, and shapeshifted Lycan have collision size 8 (in Naga and PL's cases it's to make full surrounds harder, in Lycan's case it's so that your max MS is less likely to get fucked up by getting stuck on things).
TB used to have 22 collision size in Metamorphosis, don't know if this is still the case or if it was removed going to DotA 2 (2 collision size difference seems really random).
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On July 08 2014 03:40 TheYango wrote:
Naga, PL, and shapeshifted Lycan have collision size 8 (in Naga and PL's cases it's to make full surrounds harder, in Lycan's case it's so that your max MS is less likely to get fucked up by getting stuck on things).
TB used to have 22 collision size in Metamorphosis, don't know if this is still the case or if it was removed going to DotA 2 (2 collision size difference seems really random).
Now I must know, what about shapeshifted rubick? lol
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On July 08 2014 01:11 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 01:06 ahswtini wrote:On July 07 2014 18:48 Andre wrote:On July 07 2014 16:18 ahswtini wrote:On July 07 2014 14:15 Jaeger wrote:On July 07 2014 08:23 OuchyDathurts wrote:Made this because having to explain it in game is a pain in the ass, much easier with visual aids. I'm sure most veteran players know how to do it but some people might not. Wasn't sure where to put it but whatev. The "Arteezy Block" (Radiant mid only) hmm I always use this location + Show Spoiler + I'm sure that works too, I think it just leaves you less time to move ahead of the creepwave to block Yea, not sure if you can properly block with invoker or other slow heroes. I have more trouble with heroes that have stupidly small hitboxes. My most recent example of this is clinkz. he still has 24 collision size o.O
Maybe it's offset or something, there are times where the creeps just seem to phase through me.
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On July 07 2014 21:36 KOFgokuon wrote:
If you want to buy your own, go ahead and use your gold. Certainly don't expect your team to buy a second one, and you better upgrade it yourself and not bitch at your supports to do it for you
Arcane boots, ferry clarities, wand, urn are your typical earlyish game mana items
Ok thanks. For some reason I remember your name, perhaps from the last time I came to LiquidDota
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On July 07 2014 19:57 obesechicken13 wrote:
1. Is there ever a reason to have 2 couriers at the same time?
You have two lanes that will both bottle crow.
Super late game when you want your 7:th, 8:th... item on the courier to use. Necronomicon, (Manta Style,) Refresher etc are all good items to have on a courier so you can use them and then pick up a better item for fighting.
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Two questions:
1) IF your lane isn't particularly good, what can you do versus an Axe Abbadon offlane (2v2)? Do you have to rely on ganks? IS it better to leave your first tower when they're starting to hit lvl 6 and threatening you under your tower?
2) Is it worth it to take the worse ping to play on US West if you live in East/Central US? I can't understand literally 2/3 of my team mates and it makes for some shitty games; but obviously so does having bad ping. Then again, I guess a lot of players aren't going to say anything worth listening to anyway. I guess I'm just looking for someone who's tried it and if it made a more enjoyable experience for you.
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It depends on your ping but anything under 100 or so should be very easy to acclimatize to. Alternately friend people online and only play with people u know speak english 
If ur vs a creepskipping lane it's kinda rough but you can actually pull their wave to neutrals and farm the neutrals plus their wave that way. Axe + abbadon don't have anyway to hold you down so as long as you keep running they can't kill you although they can fuck up ur tower and creeps.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://chaqdota.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/rtzblock1.jpg)
