well thats simple get pooled regen get a fast bottle spam q to harass/cs and bottle crow. if you feel that the sky is alot better than you, dont even bother lvling tidebringer. 2-0-3-1 and go make plays.

if you feel you are pretty bossy and want to carry max tidebringer and farm away.

Unleashing

Denmark14978 Posts

July 10 2014 20:14 GMT

#18364

skywrath i would assume
edit: super slowpoke

12ozSkilletDota

United States76 Posts

July 10 2014 20:22 GMT

#18365

Skymath Wage is one of my favorite heros. Once he gets calculating... kunka is screwed.

Applesauce136

United States14 Posts

July 11 2014 01:34 GMT

#18366

Can somebody more formally explain what it means to "make space" for something? I'm pretty sure making space for a carry means making it easier for the carry to farm, but I think I've heard it in other contexts too.

Mataza

Germany5364 Posts

July 11 2014 02:44 GMT

#18367

Making space can also mean that you keep the enemies busy.
If a team keeps pushing towers and provoke teamfights, it keep the other team busy defending. If they defend, they can't threaten your carry. If they go for your carry anyway(with more than 1 hero), your team should have a big advantage going for a teamfight and get a tower.
That is of course very simply put, but that's creating space by pressuring the enemy.
General anything that allows your carry to farm without interruption is creating space, like putting wards and keeping tabs on enemy heroes so no surprise ganks happen.

HighTimeDotA

Canada1412 Posts

July 11 2014 04:46 GMT

#18368

anything that keeps the enemy to focus more hero power onto you is creating space. you can even create space for yourself by fake pushing towers and forcing enemy team to react before tping elsewhere to farm. #spacecreated.

Kreb

4834 Posts

July 11 2014 10:43 GMT

#18369

People kinda jokingly use it too. Like diving into a tower and getting 5 enemies raping you. "Guys 5 here, space created for the rest of you to farm" although it obviously isnt a win considering everything. If you can force a 5man rotation to a tower and then back off while your carry farms then its legit space created.

Belisarius

Australia6233 Posts

July 11 2014 12:56 GMT

#18370

Yeah it just means forcing the enemies to respond to you in a way that takes pressure off your team, or parts of it. Usually it's going to apply in a midgame whole-map sense, say pulling enemies onto their own side of the map so they're not ganking your carry etc.

I guess people might also use it on a smaller scale for supports zoning the offlaner etc, but I wouldn't use it that way personally.

Of course, I feel like the actual most common use is to sarcastically justify feeding.

sand_box1e

Philippines7 Posts

July 11 2014 14:33 GMT

#18371

How can i own viper at mid?

Comeh

United States18919 Posts

July 11 2014 14:36 GMT

#18372

On July 11 2014 23:33 sand_box1e wrote:
How can i own viper at mid?

Wait until lategame.

There's very few heroes that do well against Viper...Razor can do better than any other hero I can think of.

SheaR619

United States2399 Posts

July 11 2014 14:57 GMT

#18373

range heroes that can clear creep wave fast and has high rune control generally does well against viper. I keep hearing that kunka counter him but one game where I drafted him for mid it didnt turn out too well. I think the kunka was just bad but I am not entirely sure.

Rocket-Bear

3070 Posts

July 11 2014 15:02 GMT

#18374

Don't think there are a lot of heroes that actually win vs viper in lane. But Viper is pretty mediocre in like every part of the game post-laning phase.

Think Storm is pretty good vs viper. Doesn't really win the lane, but doesn't really care about Slow / punishes Viper's low mobility. So unless you straight up die to Viper which really shouldn't happen, you should be ok. Losing the lane is fine. Most heroes farm faster than viper as well.

SheaR619

United States2399 Posts

July 11 2014 15:16 GMT

#18375

I think storm is even worst imo since he wont be able to get any rune control with his Q without getting harassed by viper if viper just sit right on top of the creeps. Once he get to 6 he is fine but those 6 level are going to be hell. Generally a strong range rune control hero that doesn't need to go melee range does well against viper. Since viper has poor rune control, speed and anyways to clear creeps.

Edit: I just remember, I think DP and invoker would do well against him.

Buckyman

1364 Posts

July 11 2014 18:16 GMT

#18376

Viper relies on gradual harass for lane presence. So don't skimp on the tangos!

Rocket-Bear

3070 Posts

July 11 2014 19:03 GMT

#18377

On July 12 2014 00:16 SheaR619 wrote:
I think storm is even worst imo since he wont be able to get any rune control with his Q without getting harassed by viper if viper just sit right on top of the creeps. Once he get to 6 he is fine but those 6 level are going to be hell. Generally a strong range rune control hero that doesn't need to go melee range does well against viper. Since viper has poor rune control, speed and anyways to clear creeps.

Harassment isn't going to kill you. Taking some damage is fine. You still have a bottle and can crow / get runes and whatnot. If you die with storm vs a viper you're playing really bad. Getting farm with storm vs viper is pretty easy. And then once you hit 6 it's viper that should be careful.

KOFgokuon

United States14912 Posts

July 11 2014 19:42 GMT

#18378

I dunno, storm can get zoned out pretty easily, if you walk close to creeps to cast remnant you're gonna eat least 2 hits, and if you solely use overload to farm you're gonna run out of mana in 3 seconds, if viper controls the wave well getting close can be SO dangerous

Applesauce136

United States14 Posts

July 11 2014 22:13 GMT

#18379

I heard my brother say that Sniper is really bad in high-level play, since he's so easily countered despite high damage. And I know strats like 6pooling and banshee/dt rushes are similar in SC2, in that they feel strong in lower leagues but scale horribly into plat+. Are there other champions whom I should avoid playing because of this bad playing?

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 11 2014 22:42 GMT

#18380

Even if you're new, I'd say even trying sniper out to see why he's "bad" could further your game understanding. He is pretty easily gutted by good teams but if you're just playing pubs he can be fun. Just make sure to abuse shrapnel in lane.