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On February 16 2013 02:13 wentzA wrote:
If you're playing Weaver as 1, what items are you looking at after say radiance and linken's? I don't completely understand how different effects like desolator or crit interact with germinate which it makes it tougher.
Butterfly if you need evasion manta if you don't,
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United States47024 Posts
On February 16 2013 02:13 wentzA wrote:
If you're playing Weaver as 1, what items are you looking at after say radiance and linken's? I don't completely understand how different effects like desolator or crit interact with germinate which it makes it tougher.
Don't get Linken's.
Common follow-ups to Radiance are BKB, Butterfly, Manta, Heart.
The way Geminate works now is the first hit functions as normal, and the extra attack never procs orbs or crit.
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linkens is okay against lineups that have a hard time outcarrying weaver, especially if they have bkb piercing disables
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United States47024 Posts
Fair, but I don't find it that common in pubs that people pick teams that can't outcarry Weaver.
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On February 15 2013 13:02 pigscanfly wrote:
Does Walrus Punch stack with Shadowblade bonus damage?
I haven't tested it, but I'm positive it doesn't; shadowblade was recently patched to prevent it from having any interaction with crits.
On February 16 2013 02:13 wentzA wrote:
If you're playing Weaver as 1, what items are you looking at after say radiance and linken's? I don't completely understand how different effects like desolator or crit interact with germinate which it makes it tougher.
Heart almost always. Until you have heart, butterfly's evasion is useless, and you won't be able to stay in a fight long enough to make mkb's damage useful. Those are the items I'd get after heart if you get the gold though. Once you have radiance you dispense decent damage with your attacks and just by being around, but to get the most out of it you have to be able to be around for as long as possible. The hp heart gives lets you stay in a fight directly, and the regen heart gives you lets you duck out of the fight (ideally still in radiance burn range if possible) to recover quickly so you can get back in the fight.
As primary farm priority I would never get deso or crit on Weaver. Those items could be good on a mid Weaver though. Mid Weaver can force his mobility and dives down the other team's throat and snowball the lanes; and crit could be useful in clutch last-shot tower dive scenarios. The minus-armour on desolator could be nice if you're stacking the effect with swarm, medalion, desolator, ac; which gets more out of your geminate (since besides the deso effect the rest of the minus-armour will make the geminate do more damage).
Yango why do you dislike Linken's on Weaver? It works well with his hit-and-run tactics, gives necessary regen, and useful stats. When I'm carrying as Weaver and I can farm well in lane I get Perseverence asap for the regen (and the 10 damage it gives is actually useful at that time as well). From there I'll either build radiance if my farm is excellent or just finish Linken's before making radiance anyway. Fast Perseverence means you don't need to buy boots, ever. Means you don't waste money or item slots on boots, aquila, etc. Weaver doesn't need radiance for farming, so it isn't necessary to get the radiance asap. Boots aquila radiance isn't any faster than Perseverence radiance though.
The stats on Linken's gives badly needed hp, more mana for constant shukuchi spam, some damage and attack speed, a bit of armour, and the passive spellblock which gives you the head's-up to run-- which is what weaver does. BKB gives you less hp, barely any more damage, no regen, and magic immunity for a duration which weaver shouldn't ever need. If you're sitting in the middle of the enemy team while they're flinging stuns around, you're doing it wrong. Once you have heart (literally linken's radiance heart tp, and dust/gem if you need, no other items) you can even tank some spells and still be able to ult or shukuchi out.
edit: Well the nice thing about Weaver is that you can split push earlier than most carries, so even if with equal farm another carry would out-carry, Weaver can get more farm from pushing lanes, towers, and getting assists/kills with the team-- Weaver can be more active the way Luna can.
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Linkens is a weak choice because it doesn't actually do anything. Radiance gives you a powerful midgame including damage during shukuchi, Linkens makes your midgame weaker, not stronger. The manaregen Weaver needs can be covered more easily by e.g. Aquila/Urn/Medallion/Bottle, the health regen Weaver needs can be covered by Tranquils/Bottle.
Small midgame items -> Radiance instead of Linkens -> Radiance is almost always a safer and stronger choice. You don't want to drag the game out too long, you want to abuse your insanely strong midgame to gain an advantage.
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United States47024 Posts
The regen is wasted. 150% mana regen is flat out way more than you need to support Shukuchi usage, and RoH is a cost-inefficient way to get HP regen compared to Bottle or Tranquils. It's also a totally farm-oriented item (even more so than Radiance because Radiance at least gives predominantly combat stats) on a hero that is typically played around his midgame teamfight ability. The +all stats and spell block are nice, but far too much of the item's cost is spent on regen stats that are simply way more than you need.
Boots aquila radiance isn't any faster than Perseverence radiance though.
Tranquil Aquila gives virtually equivalent regen for all practical purposes (weaker mana regen, stronger HP regen), but also gives combat stats. You want combat stats on this hero. You don't want pure regen because you're not a lategame hard carry.
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Well, lothars/shadowblade should stack with walrus punch in adding the flat damage bonus at the end of the autoattack. There's no multiplier on that number though (that was what was patched).
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On February 15 2013 11:32 infam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 07:16 Nevuk wrote:On February 15 2013 04:34 RuiBarbO wrote:On February 15 2013 04:21 infam wrote:
With ctrl you normally send the command to all units like meepo for instance ctrl + w makes all meepos poof. Somehow ctrl is ability learn for me so when i press ctrl + w it tells me that poof is allready maxed. I cant change it in the options and even when i copy the config from a friend it doesnt work. Does someone know how to fix this? :/ Whoa, that makes playing meepo a lot easier. I was proofing each one separately. No idea how to change it though :/ It's in a different spot than you would expect. It's under gameplay -> general -> unified unit orders. This is also where auto-select summoned units is (Some heroes benefit greatly from it while others like PL or Darkseer want it to be off 99% of the time). Anyways, I have both off because of playing junglers and never playing meepo. I know and thats where my problem starts: CTRL is both unified unit orders and ability learn for me, even tho ability learn is set as "O". Its some kind of different ability learn as it doesnt open the menu like the "normal" one. Somehow it doesnt go away, i searched through my config and there is nothing about it. Google says nothing either..
As far as I know ctrl is hard coded to behave that way (in regards to using it to level). Does ctrl only not work when you have ability points to spend or does it just not work at all? The latter case is fixable but I would need to look into it some.
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The recommended post radiance item is probably heart, given weavers mobility and ultimate, heart gives a lot of natural syngeries with the radiance playstyle. After that you'd likely go either bfly or mkb for dps depending on situation
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I don't understand 100% why people argue against getting crit on Weaver but are totally fine with getting mkb - mkb's 100 bonus damage on attack doesn't proc on germinates either, and that's a big part of the DPS boost from mkb. Is it just that mkb gives slightly better stats to compensate for its slightly worse proc? In essence they're the same thing - both boost your damage on a single attack, which doesn't work on germinate. I just feel like I would almost all the time prefer a butterfly over an mkb.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Because MKB has a situational aspect to it that allows you to get rid of evasion/missed attacks. Daedalus on the other hand is just more damage.
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Basically, crit gives more damage at any point of the game if I'm not wrong, but if the enemies have evasion of any kind MKB is still the better choice to get first. Also, the ministun can stop tps and channeling spells and even attack/cast animation, which can be pretty useful.
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On February 16 2013 10:20 maru~ wrote:
Basically, crit gives more damage at any point of the game if I'm not wrong, but if the enemies have evasion of any kind MKB is still the better choice to get first. Also, the ministun can stop tps and channeling spells and even attack/cast animation, which can be pretty useful.
Crit does not give more damage then mkb at any point in the game. I recall someone on dota-allstars forums doing a calculation on what gives more dps dadaleus or mkb. What it told was that if you have more then 250dmg crit will give more dps. And if you have < 250 damage. Mkb will give more dps.
But the items have been tweaked since those calculations where made. But it will still be the same, dadaleus will only give you more dps then mkb if you already have very high damage. And I am to lazy to make them myself and as others have said mkb is also good for other reasons. Canceling channeling etc.
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On February 16 2013 13:13 njt7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 10:20 maru~ wrote:
Basically, crit gives more damage at any point of the game if I'm not wrong, but if the enemies have evasion of any kind MKB is still the better choice to get first. Also, the ministun can stop tps and channeling spells and even attack/cast animation, which can be pretty useful. Crit does not give more damage then mkb at any point in the game. I recall someone on dota-allstars forums doing a calculation on what gives more dps dadaleus or mkb. What it told was that if you have more then 250dmg crit will give more dps. And if you have < 250 damage. Mkb will give more dps. But the items have been tweaked since those calculations where made. But it will still be the same, dadaleus will only give you more dps then mkb if you already have very high damage. And I am to lazy to make them myself and as others have said mkb is also good for other reasons. Canceling channeling etc.
I remember Crystalys being one of the best damage / gold item but then again most big items are less cost efficient (they're slot efficient instead). You're right about MKB vs Daedalus though.
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On February 16 2013 09:21 Firebolt145 wrote:
Because MKB has a situational aspect to it that allows you to get rid of evasion/missed attacks. Daedalus on the other hand is just more damage.
Well yeah, I understand that one, but that's pretty situational and a lot of people seem to consider mkb as a reasonable core item on Weaver which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Of course it's situational on anyone who hits people when there's evasion on the enemy team but why does Weaver like it more than other items even if it's less effective on him than it is on other heroes?
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On February 16 2013 15:49 Cyx. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 09:21 Firebolt145 wrote:
Because MKB has a situational aspect to it that allows you to get rid of evasion/missed attacks. Daedalus on the other hand is just more damage. Well yeah, I understand that one, but that's pretty situational and a lot of people seem to consider mkb as a reasonable core item on Weaver which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Of course it's situational on anyone who hits people when there's evasion on the enemy team but why does Weaver like it more than other items even if it's less effective on him than it is on other heroes?
You can't crit on geminates. Other than that, I guess the ministun is useful since weaver has no other methods of cancelling channeling.
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On February 16 2013 13:13 njt7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 10:20 maru~ wrote:
Basically, crit gives more damage at any point of the game if I'm not wrong, but if the enemies have evasion of any kind MKB is still the better choice to get first. Also, the ministun can stop tps and channeling spells and even attack/cast animation, which can be pretty useful. Crit does not give more damage then mkb at any point in the game. I recall someone on dota-allstars forums doing a calculation on what gives more dps dadaleus or mkb. What it told was that if you have more then 250dmg crit will give more dps. And if you have < 250 damage. Mkb will give more dps. But the items have been tweaked since those calculations where made. But it will still be the same, dadaleus will only give you more dps then mkb if you already have very high damage. And I am to lazy to make them myself and as others have said mkb is also good for other reasons. Canceling channeling etc.
The threshold should be much lower.
See http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1050347&postcount=9
Basically, when you think about getting MKB/crit chances are your damage and attack speed are high enough so that crit would deal more dps, unless it's your first dps item.
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Why people favor force staff instead of shadow blade on squishy carry heroes like Silencer?
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Cheaper, harder to counter than shadowblade, gives some nice stats (int and a bit of regen). All the 'squishy carry heroes' like Silencer and OD make use of the int from force staff as well.
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EPT
