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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 310

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
January 22 2013 06:09 GMT
#6181
On January 22 2013 14:49 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 14:34 LazyFailKid wrote:
Wouldn't everyone buying blademail on your team pretty much instakill medusa if she has rapier? Does her mana shield block pure damage?


Why doesn't Medusa have a BKB though?

I think part of it is due to the fact the Medusa builds an early Linken's Sphere as a farming item. That combined with her natural tankiness lategame make it undesirable for the enemy team to target their spells on Medusa. I think that her tankiness and split shot also give her good sustained dps rather than the almost burst damage of other late game agi carries. This makes her less vulnerable to stuns/disables. Being 600 range also makes her less vulnerable to slows and stuns compared to melee heroes.
Road to 6sange
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
January 22 2013 06:12 GMT
#6182
On January 22 2013 14:54 lazyitachi wrote:
Why would medu have Bkb?

Anyway, wouldnt her mana and HP pool already make her ridiculous? Getting skadi and linkens up will make her almost unkillable. Even with blademail unless all 5 enemies make blademail for that maximum self rape.


Because all five of them made blademail. Why wouldn't you get BKB?
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
January 22 2013 06:18 GMT
#6183
On January 22 2013 15:12 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 14:54 lazyitachi wrote:
Why would medu have Bkb?

Anyway, wouldnt her mana and HP pool already make her ridiculous? Getting skadi and linkens up will make her almost unkillable. Even with blademail unless all 5 enemies make blademail for that maximum self rape.


Because all five of them made blademail. Why wouldn't you get BKB?

Blademail only lasts 4.5s. If they've invested that much gold in them, you can just wait them out.
Road to 6sange
lazyitachi
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
1043 Posts
January 22 2013 06:31 GMT
#6184
Oops.. reading comprehension failed :S
anyway like tauon said.. let them blademail all they want.. if they do it all together.. they are just gonna die after the thing ends..
LazyFailKid
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada750 Posts
January 22 2013 06:43 GMT
#6185
Would be pretty funny as a surprise tactic though if she doesn't check your team's inventory but I was wondering more if split shot applied things like nightmare and tiny's armor/stun passive, and it seems like it does. Pro medusa counter would be bane, just nightmare yourself and watch as she never gets an attack off since you get nightmare'd before the attack and if her team tries to stop it just attack whoever took it
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
January 22 2013 07:43 GMT
#6186
On January 22 2013 15:02 TheYango wrote:
If she activates Satanic, she can attack into 2 Blademails without them effectively doing damage to her.

But then they can get diffusal blade and purge the satanic.

I always hoped some team would mass blademails against a tinker.

And what's the best jungling route for axe? At first I played him like a normal jungle hero, but he's much more efficient (and ironically takes less damage) if you stack. Which actually allows you to apply more pressure to the lane since you're spending less time fighting neutrals.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
January 22 2013 08:01 GMT
#6187
jungling route depends a lot on spawns
generally the best start is
scout nearby camps > stack ez > kill ez > kill 3+ spawn camp that isn't wolves > stack something
tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-22 08:49:22
January 22 2013 08:41 GMT
#6188
There is a really good trick in the Radiant jungle. If you cut down the tree that separates the camp that is normally pulled into the lane @ ~15/45s and the nearby camp (the two medium camps in the Radiant jungle) you can jungle both camps at once as Axe. Puppey did it a while ago in a pro game with a tango and double stout shield.

Edit: It was from the last Dreamhack tournament.
Road to 6sange
10734
Profile Joined September 2012
340 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-22 14:39:48
January 22 2013 14:39 GMT
#6189
Why do we rarely see a dual lane mid? If you have a jungler it seems like a good idea to me to just abandon the hard lane, and go dual mid lane (if you don't have a very level dependant mid) + their mid will lose the lane most likely.
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
January 22 2013 15:46 GMT
#6190
You also want to avoid Centaur Camps and Ursa Camps as Axe. The xp/gold you get from them is terrible compared to the damage you take. If you ever run into them, you're best off stacking them then coming back at a later time when you have your Regen Item or higher levels of helix.

Another neat jungling trick with Axe is that if you ever run into Satyr Camps, you should position yourself to avoid counter-helixing the range creeps. The majority of damage done by the range Satyr will be blocked by your stout shield and the extra attacks are really helpful in getting helix procs.
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
Ingenol
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1328 Posts
January 22 2013 16:00 GMT
#6191
On January 22 2013 23:39 10734 wrote:
Why do we rarely see a dual lane mid? If you have a jungler it seems like a good idea to me to just abandon the hard lane, and go dual mid lane (if you don't have a very level dependant mid) + their mid will lose the lane most likely.

Usually the heroes that play mid benefit from the early level advantage afforded by solo XP (that's why you see Panda, NS, etc. mid often). Having your offlaner there will negate this.
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-22 16:34:02
January 22 2013 16:32 GMT
#6192
On January 22 2013 23:39 10734 wrote:
Why do we rarely see a dual lane mid? If you have a jungler it seems like a good idea to me to just abandon the hard lane, and go dual mid lane (if you don't have a very level dependant mid) + their mid will lose the lane most likely.


Dual lane mid has significantly lower xp gain for both heroes and features a devoted support and carry. This forces your team to enter an extended laning phase as the carry hero will suffer significantly if his support leaves the lane. Unless you can easily predict the opposing mid or the carry has a significant matchup advantage, the support is pretty much stuck there. Although you do gain the farm and rune advantage, the level development of your heroes will be a lot slower.

Since your supports are now tied down to the lane, this makes it much harder to stop early pushes whilst your carries are getting their core items. At higher levels of play, this can usually mean the loss of your offlane's t1 and t2 towers that allows opposing supports to gain gold for key items like mek/arcane boots etc. Remember, tower gold is much more valuable the earlier in the game rather than later.

Finally, dual lane mid can be punished through smoke ganks from roaming supports. If their carry can safely free farm the top lane, it's pretty easy for the 2 supports to pop a smoke and gank mid. If both heroes in your dual lane die to the gank, it sets your heroes behind not just in gold, but more importantly xp. This will also help the opposing mid catch up in the xp and negate much of the advantage you've gotten by going dual mid in the first place.

[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
January 22 2013 17:07 GMT
#6193
On January 23 2013 01:32 Baggage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 23:39 10734 wrote:
Why do we rarely see a dual lane mid? If you have a jungler it seems like a good idea to me to just abandon the hard lane, and go dual mid lane (if you don't have a very level dependant mid) + their mid will lose the lane most likely.


Dual lane mid has significantly lower xp gain for both heroes and features a devoted support and carry. This forces your team to enter an extended laning phase as the carry hero will suffer significantly if his support leaves the lane. Unless you can easily predict the opposing mid or the carry has a significant matchup advantage, the support is pretty much stuck there. Although you do gain the farm and rune advantage, the level development of your heroes will be a lot slower.

Since your supports are now tied down to the lane, this makes it much harder to stop early pushes whilst your carries are getting their core items. At higher levels of play, this can usually mean the loss of your offlane's t1 and t2 towers that allows opposing supports to gain gold for key items like mek/arcane boots etc. Remember, tower gold is much more valuable the earlier in the game rather than later.

Finally, dual lane mid can be punished through smoke ganks from roaming supports. If their carry can safely free farm the top lane, it's pretty easy for the 2 supports to pop a smoke and gank mid. If both heroes in your dual lane die to the gank, it sets your heroes behind not just in gold, but more importantly xp. This will also help the opposing mid catch up in the xp and negate much of the advantage you've gotten by going dual mid in the first place.


Generally you dual lane mid for a few reasons. Generally its run with the objective of killing the other mid laner repeatedly and forcing little to no farm on them. Also, its usually combined with the goal of having a large amount of map control and setting and early, agressive tempo. This is why we see Wisp / CK run as dual mid often - they can get early kills on the other mid hero almost immediately, having them mid usually allows a hero to be ran on safe lane (usually a carry) to get some kind of free farm (if they run aggressive trilane, it will probably be broken when ck / wisp hits 6). Depending on how important the other teams mid is, they may opt to dual lane mid themselves to try and come out even on the lane. Also, having the ck / wisp mid means you can usually do something to defend that push on the offlane t1/t2
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
January 22 2013 20:47 GMT
#6194
On January 22 2013 16:43 igotmyown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 15:02 TheYango wrote:
If she activates Satanic, she can attack into 2 Blademails without them effectively doing damage to her.

But then they can get diffusal blade and purge the satanic.

I always hoped some team would mass blademails against a tinker.

And what's the best jungling route for axe? At first I played him like a normal jungle hero, but he's much more efficient (and ironically takes less damage) if you stack. Which actually allows you to apply more pressure to the lane since you're spending less time fighting neutrals.

cant purge satanic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
January 22 2013 22:24 GMT
#6195
Another question more directed at DotA1.
The satanic buff was based on the vampiric potion, right? If i remember correctly there was a time where satanic(the active) could work for ursa?
Or is my memory playing tricks with me?
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
January 22 2013 22:50 GMT
#6196
Based on what I saw of the GEST, the main reason to run a dual mid is that Mushi is on the other team
Road to 6sange
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
January 22 2013 23:09 GMT
#6197
satanic active works with everything iirc
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
January 23 2013 00:38 GMT
#6198
On January 23 2013 05:47 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 16:43 igotmyown wrote:
On January 22 2013 15:02 TheYango wrote:
If she activates Satanic, she can attack into 2 Blademails without them effectively doing damage to her.

But then they can get diffusal blade and purge the satanic.

I always hoped some team would mass blademails against a tinker.

And what's the best jungling route for axe? At first I played him like a normal jungle hero, but he's much more efficient (and ironically takes less damage) if you stack. Which actually allows you to apply more pressure to the lane since you're spending less time fighting neutrals.

cant purge satanic

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/thread.php?id=698718

It definitely used to, don't know if they changed it.
ElegantSolution
Profile Joined May 2004
191 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 02:50:44
January 23 2013 02:45 GMT
#6199
What's the point of getting recipe first when going for midas and gloves after. Saw some pros do that. What's the difference use cur earlier or later in the game? They don't need gloves cos they're just last hitting and not going to fight another heroes?
#1 Stinger fan
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
January 23 2013 02:53 GMT
#6200
If they have 1400 gold and haven't needed the gloves (since as you said they're last hitting, not autoattacking etc) then it's always best to get the more expensive item first, so if you die you at least have the harder part done already.
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