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On January 02 2013 10:52 MSGHero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 10:35 Ryder. wrote:
Do people tend to focus on just a few heroes (say 2-3), a bunch (10-15) or even focus on a class (support, carry) or just play most heroes equally?
I can see how focusing on just a couple helps you really nail their idiosyncrasies like range and animation times, but on the other hand a lot of skills are carried over between heroes (like general map awareness etc) and playing all heroes a lot means you have a better understanding of your enemies and allies too.
So how many heroes does the average dota 2 player tend to play? Depends on the person. Normally people find one hero they like, then after a while, they branch out to other heroes of that same position (carry, etc). Others just random every game for a while. You can determine range and attack animations in the first few seconds after the creeps meet. For me, and for others in what I've read, people don't have a set few that they play. Maybe a set few that they prefer, but personally, I can play about 1/3 of the heroes if the situation calls for it. I prefer to mid, but I can support, hard lane, and carry just fine. It's not like LoL where I only had like 3 heroes I played because of limited free rune and mastery pages.
Personally I found a role I enjoy (beefy semi-carries/pushers) and I just play the heroes that fall into that category.
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On January 02 2013 10:35 Ryder. wrote:
I just started playing dota the past month or so, and I am aiming to play every hero at least once before I start deciding on my favourites. So a question I have been thinking about for a while; how many heroes to non-professional players tend to play?
I know Purge plays random a lot and plays all heroes reasonably equally (as far as I know) but that makes sense since he is an entertainment provider and wants to appeal to everyone.
Do people tend to focus on just a few heroes (say 2-3), a bunch (10-15) or even focus on a class (support, carry) or just play most heroes equally?
I can see how focusing on just a couple helps you really nail their idiosyncrasies like range and animation times, but on the other hand a lot of skills are carried over between heroes (like general map awareness etc) and playing all heroes a lot means you have a better understanding of your enemies and allies too.
So how many heroes does the average dota 2 player tend to play?
I guess just for interest too what do pros tend to do? Haven't really watched many pro games but I heard Na'Vi players tend to stick to a role (like Dendi solo mid), not sure if all teams do this though.
For pro players it's ideal to stick to a role, or sometimes certain heroes. Makes it easier to practice and make sure everybody are 100% ready for when a real game is coming up.
To me.. I play just about any DotA2 hero, only very few heroes that i repick when i random them(Visage when i'm solo Q'ing).
IceFrog told gabe newell that the best way to learn DotA for someone new is to just random, it gets you a good feel of every single hero in the game and although it'll be rough to begin with it'll IMO give you the best introduction to the game.
I mean sure there are heroes i'm worse at than other heroes (I suck at templar assasin for example) and there are heroes i'm better at than other heroes(I fucking LOVE playing tiny). but overall i play all heroes decently for and if i haven't played a hero in forever i might be a bit rusty with it, but getting used to it again takes a very short amount of time. My current favourite hero that i pick when i'm not randoming is gyrocopter for example.
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So I've been playing Furion lately and enjoying him a lot. I jungle and gank with my teleport spell and, typically, end up doing really well in the early game ( something like 5-1) but as it gets to the lategame, I just fall off ( like 8-12). This isn't the case for me with other heroes. When my team has bad supports I get mek and wards but most often, this is my standard build on him: treads --> orchid malevolance --> desolater --> aghanim's scepter. The orchid is for ganks and to disable in teamfights. However, that is where I seem to be bad with Furion. He dies pretty fast to other carries and he has a slow attack, abeit high damage. Should I just be more careful in teamfights? I'm just right clicking who I can because he really has not teamfight spells. I cast his ult when someone is low on health and manage to get a lucky kill sometimes but I'm usually bad in teamfights. I just get disabled/focused and melt. Is it just bad positioning from me? Or am I building him wrong? I feel like he isn't as good lategame, though I understand he is most often built as a semi-carry(2-3 position) and should do pretty well lategame. Any tips from good Furion players?
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On January 02 2013 12:35 shizaep wrote:
So I've been playing Furion lately and enjoying him a lot. I jungle and gank with my teleport spell and, typically, end up doing really well in the early game ( something like 5-1) but as it gets to the lategame, I just fall off ( like 8-12). This isn't the case for me with other heroes. When my team has bad supports I get mek and wards but most often, this is my standard build on him: treads --> orchid malevolance --> desolater --> aghanim's scepter. The orchid is for ganks and to disable in teamfights. However, that is where I seem to be bad with Furion. He dies pretty fast to other carries and he has a slow attack, abeit high damage. Should I just be more careful in teamfights? I'm just right clicking who I can because he really has not teamfight spells. I cast his ult when someone is low on health and manage to get a lucky kill sometimes but I'm usually bad in teamfights. I just get disabled/focused and melt. Is it just bad positioning from me? Or am I building him wrong? I feel like he isn't as good lategame, though I understand he is most often built as a semi-carry(2-3 position) and should do pretty well lategame. Any tips from good Furion players?
My friend who plays him has different builds for different games, one set build won't suffice. Early midas ofc. He usually skips orchid unless they have annoying spells like blinks and whatnot. Sheepstick if he didn't get orchid sometimes, desolator, mjollnir, crit, 3 crits, mkb, just whatever is needed for that game. Scepter won't help your right clicks, which is what you seem to be focusing on. And he usually is pushing towers and killing rax while his team teamfights. Because of this, your team needs to be able to handle 4v5 without getting wiped while you kill their base or until you tp in.
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You need to be very ahead if you're going to man fight with other carries. Furion has no sort of advantage over another carry besides being able to profit all over the map. Typically you also need a BKB so you aren't smacked around in the teamfight.
You should also reevaluate your item build. Orchid every game sounds poor. You should only be picking it up if the silence is needed to shut something down. You should get much better mileage out of a sheep typically although even that isn't a given. The biggest strength of orchid versus Sheep is that orchid has better buildup. However, buildup is practically useless when you're afk farming jungle. Deso is typically used to split push (since the debuff works on buildings). There are better damage items if that isn't the case.
The real key to furion is knowing when your team can win a fight. If your team can't win a fight you need to be pressuring elsewhere by split pushing so that their team cannot fight you. If your team can win a fight then you can just fight them and all the split pushing doesn't matter.
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On January 02 2013 12:46 MSGHero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 12:35 shizaep wrote:
So I've been playing Furion lately and enjoying him a lot. I jungle and gank with my teleport spell and, typically, end up doing really well in the early game ( something like 5-1) but as it gets to the lategame, I just fall off ( like 8-12). This isn't the case for me with other heroes. When my team has bad supports I get mek and wards but most often, this is my standard build on him: treads --> orchid malevolance --> desolater --> aghanim's scepter. The orchid is for ganks and to disable in teamfights. However, that is where I seem to be bad with Furion. He dies pretty fast to other carries and he has a slow attack, abeit high damage. Should I just be more careful in teamfights? I'm just right clicking who I can because he really has not teamfight spells. I cast his ult when someone is low on health and manage to get a lucky kill sometimes but I'm usually bad in teamfights. I just get disabled/focused and melt. Is it just bad positioning from me? Or am I building him wrong? I feel like he isn't as good lategame, though I understand he is most often built as a semi-carry(2-3 position) and should do pretty well lategame. Any tips from good Furion players? My friend who plays him has different builds for different games, one set build won't suffice. Early midas ofc. He usually skips orchid unless they have annoying spells like blinks and whatnot. Sheepstick if he didn't get orchid sometimes, desolator, mjollnir, crit, 3 crits, mkb, just whatever is needed for that game. Scepter won't help your right clicks, which is what you seem to be focusing on. And he usually is pushing towers and killing rax while his team teamfights. Because of this, your team needs to be able to handle 4v5 without getting wiped while you kill their base or until you tp in.
So should I just always be split-pushing during teamfights and teleport in at the last moment? I try to be there in teamfights beginning to end to make sure everything goes smoothly.
And I don't really know what I can focus on with him besides right clicking... Should I just build a lot of damage/attack speed on him?
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, sometimes I get necrobook. For more pushing. And I pop it in teamfights too.
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On January 02 2013 12:56 shizaep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 12:46 MSGHero wrote:On January 02 2013 12:35 shizaep wrote:
So I've been playing Furion lately and enjoying him a lot. I jungle and gank with my teleport spell and, typically, end up doing really well in the early game ( something like 5-1) but as it gets to the lategame, I just fall off ( like 8-12). This isn't the case for me with other heroes. When my team has bad supports I get mek and wards but most often, this is my standard build on him: treads --> orchid malevolance --> desolater --> aghanim's scepter. The orchid is for ganks and to disable in teamfights. However, that is where I seem to be bad with Furion. He dies pretty fast to other carries and he has a slow attack, abeit high damage. Should I just be more careful in teamfights? I'm just right clicking who I can because he really has not teamfight spells. I cast his ult when someone is low on health and manage to get a lucky kill sometimes but I'm usually bad in teamfights. I just get disabled/focused and melt. Is it just bad positioning from me? Or am I building him wrong? I feel like he isn't as good lategame, though I understand he is most often built as a semi-carry(2-3 position) and should do pretty well lategame. Any tips from good Furion players? My friend who plays him has different builds for different games, one set build won't suffice. Early midas ofc. He usually skips orchid unless they have annoying spells like blinks and whatnot. Sheepstick if he didn't get orchid sometimes, desolator, mjollnir, crit, 3 crits, mkb, just whatever is needed for that game. Scepter won't help your right clicks, which is what you seem to be focusing on. And he usually is pushing towers and killing rax while his team teamfights. Because of this, your team needs to be able to handle 4v5 without getting wiped while you kill their base or until you tp in. So should I just always be split-pushing during teamfights and teleport in at the last moment? I try to be there in teamfights beginning to end to make sure everything goes smoothly. And I don't really know what I can focus on with him besides right clicking... Should I just build a lot of damage/attack speed on him? Oh yeah, forgot to mention, sometimes I get necrobook. For more pushing. And I pop it in teamfights too.
You shouldn't always be doing anything. This game is never black and white like that. You have to take in what is happening in the game and make a decision about what your best course of action is.
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I see. But I'd appreciate some generic advice/tips to help me make more intelligent decisions.
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Furion can be built so many different ways. If you need more damage, you can go carry build (although you shouldn't be the only carry and expect to take it to late game). If you need more utility, you can go things like Necrobook, Orchid, Sheepstick, ect. It all depends on the situation, you don't always want to go Necrobook and you don't always want to go carry build.
On January 02 2013 13:11 shizaep wrote:
I see. But I'd appreciate some generic advice/tips to help me make more intelligent decisions.
Does your team need damage or utility more?
Damage: Go damage items, but due to Furion's split pushing ability, you also want to complement that. So items like Desolator, Orchid, and Daedalus are good. I rarely play my Furion like this, so someone could expand on that.
Utility: Go utility items.
-If their team has a non-priority mana dependent target, I like Necrobook. A perfect example is Ogre Magi. He is too tanky to focus down, but his Fireball stuns are annoying, Multicast or not. A Necro Warrior trained on him with the initial mana burn of the archer will make him useless after a few fireballs. You can also use Necrobook (with another Necrobook or some other mana burn) to shut down Skeleton King's ult (and Chaos Knight if you initiate on them).
-If their team has a priority target spell caster, Orchid is a good first item. A good example is Storm Spirit or Omniknight who didn't repel himself yet. You want to extra damage to take them down fast, and you don't want them running away or using their spells before they die.
-After one of those items, get a Sheepstick. Sheepstick is just another CC, and is never bad. It has a bad build up though which is why you don't rush it.
Annoying: If you want to split push all game, you can get like a Maelstrom -> Agh's Scepter -> Desolator, but don't expect to be too useful in teamfights.
Also, if you go utility items, I prefer to skip Hand of Midas, get a Medallion of Courage, and start ganking at level 4 (that's when you can afford a level in Sprout and when you can afford a Medallion in jungle). It's a bigger help to the team in my opinion.
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On January 02 2013 11:00 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 10:35 Ryder. wrote:
I just started playing dota the past month or so, and I am aiming to play every hero at least once before I start deciding on my favourites. So a question I have been thinking about for a while; how many heroes to non-professional players tend to play? When you decide to try Meepo, don't go in with high expectations of doing well. You'll either lump all your Meepos and play subpar or try to play correctly (stacking, ganking, and laning at the same time) and be completely overwhelmed.
Haha it's ok I have heard a lot about Meepo. ATM instead of randoming I tend to just read up/watch a brief tutorial on a hero and then queue with them the next game I play, so I'm leaving the harder heroes like Meepo, Invoker, Chen etc until last.
Cheers everyone for the responses.
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Well, I'd like to say avoid the following items: Dagon, Shadowblade, Aghanims first for the intention of buffering your farm, as opposed to using it for teamfights. There is only so much farm on the map...remember you're stealing from your teammates, not magically creating an income source.
Shizaep I think Sheep is way more versatile and standard as opposed to Orchid, I personally get a Sheep regardless of my Furion build that I'm going. If you want to be really aggressive get some utility items like Medallion or Urn, if you want to focus on farming then skip those since you won't get the maximum use out of them early-mid. I also recommend a Mekansm, easily my favorite item on Furion. Pop anywhere on the map and turn a fight around, save teammates, or initiate in even riskier locations while having survivability.
For DPS carry, Orchid is...situational. Sheep is far superior of an item and a disable, just make sure to get a BKB when you feel you need it.
*Edit: No of course not rushing Sheep. I'd get an Urn + Mek before for an example build. It is more often than not my big tier 4 item though which is what I meant.
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Thanks for all the advice. It helps not only for Furion specifically but the logic behind all the builds explained well was enlightening as well. Appreciate it very much, will try to step up my game now.
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On January 02 2013 14:59 Slardar wrote:
Well, I'd like to say avoid the following items: Dagon, Shadowblade, Aghanims first for the intention of buffering your farm, as opposed to using it for teamfights. There is only so much farm on the map...remember you're stealing from your teammates, not magically creating an income source.
Shizaep I think Sheep is way more versatile and standard as opposed to Orchid, I personally get a Sheep regardless of my Furion build that I'm going.
But do you go Sheep first? I'm curious. It seems like you sacrifice a good bit of early game potential rushing sheep.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Sheep first is situational and often not the best idea. Depends on the enemy team comp - will they be likely to push early or will you have enough time to complete it? If you have time, it is often one of the best items you can get. If not, get something smaller first (orchids/deso/whatever) to get you through the early/mid game before going sheep.
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Tbh you can go midas/aghanim everygame then change your build onward.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On January 02 2013 18:05 Erasme wrote:
Tbh you can go midas/aghanim everygame then change your build onward.
If you start with midas/agh you can just buy everything in the shop
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Why do many rubicks put 2 points in telekinesis and then max null field?
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On January 02 2013 21:54 Mafe wrote:
Why do many rubicks put 2 points in telekinesis and then max null field?
It's a good skill on level one but scales very badly. Putting in a second skill point might be worth it but I normally leave it at level one until the other two skills are maxed.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On January 02 2013 22:21 ZerG~LegenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 21:54 Mafe wrote:
Why do many rubicks put 2 points in telekinesis and then max null field? It's a good skill on level one but scales very badly. Putting in a second skill point might be worth it but I normally leave it at level one until the other two skills are maxed.
I actually disagree about it scaling badly. At first glance it seems the duration only increases by 0.25 per level, but you have to realise that it's both the lift duration and the stun duration (from the fall down) that increase by 0.25, resulting in actually a net increase of 0.5 seconds per level. And that's definitely worth it.
In certain situations it's still good to skip leveling it up beyond 1 or 2 though, maxing null field early. This is typically when you're underleveled and teamfights are already happening with plenty of magic damage flying around, where your 5-20% magic resistance aura will help more than a longer stun.
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What're Magnus' weaknesses? any heroes that counter him, etc? he seems pretty much perfect
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EPT
