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On June 26 2015 12:15 Jonoman92 wrote:
Why is EE building treads on windranger. I do not understand. Get max atk speed from her ult so why not go phase like everyone else does?
Windrun gives her surviveability against auto-attacks, but she has no hp to withstand nukes prior to a bkb or maybe aghs. The hp from treads alleviates that vulnerability and has additional utility with tread swapping to cover her high and frequent mana costs.
And even if you consider your argument that her ult already gives her max ias, she isn't using her ult all the time anyway. Her job is to nuke and control the enemy as is, so the damage from phase boots really isn't necessary. Phase are nice for mobility for repositioning for shackles and to make the laning phase go easier, but especially if you aren't farming well aren't at all necessary. Even if you are farming well, if you need mobility and repositioning you can build blink or force for greater overall utility.
Then furthermore, why do anything just because "everyone else does"?
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Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro/qop (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
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On June 26 2015 18:07 xAdra wrote:
Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
Theres no one way but several small things you can think about.
You can aim to tank through it with extremely tanky heroes or heroes that really doesnt die, or gets a 2nd chance. WK, Abaddon, Bristle. Lone druid maybe too, he can commit a bear and if it dies he has a 2nd one.
You can attemp to disrupt it or save your friends who are being caught. Venge can be great especially against Enigma/Void. SD can help save lives. WW can with ult and her E too.
Various strong AoE ults can also completely interrupt or negate such combos. Naga can song in the middle of their combo to reset or escape. Omni can ult and make all physical damage during their combo pointless. Agh-Centaur can stampede during their combo to negate damage (I saw some pro team use Agh-Centaur against Void. That was a sad void, his chrono never resulted in anything with the counter-stampede coming out). Agh-Abaddon something similar.
Often you might just need one of the above things to disrupt them to basically win fights. If you negate their combo plays those heroes generally lack a lot afterwards.
And of course Rubick can be super fun to play against that.
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Thanks Kreb! Great answer. Next time I see something like this coming I'll be sure to pick heroes that can do what you said. I was carry just now and naturally you cant rely on pubbies to pick correct heroes and make correct plays
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On June 26 2015 18:07 xAdra wrote:
Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro/qop (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
yeah : SILENCER. 
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On June 26 2015 20:05 VelJa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 18:07 xAdra wrote:
Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro/qop (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
yeah : SILENCER.
says the silenced man haha
rubick is a good pick too. hes obviously not the hero to 1v5 the game for you but it should be obvious what he can potentially bring to your team fight.
imagine a mid rubick who manages to get a blink/force/aghanims against the lineup you talked about. as long as the rubick is quick, the possibilities are endless lol
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On June 27 2015 00:16 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 20:05 VelJa wrote:On June 26 2015 18:07 xAdra wrote:
Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro/qop (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
yeah : SILENCER. says the silenced man haha rubick is a good pick too. hes obviously not the hero to 1v5 the game for you but it should be obvious what he can potentially bring to your team fight. imagine a mid rubick who manages to get a blink/force/aghanims against the lineup you talked about. as long as the rubick is quick, the possibilities are endless lol
Personally I don't mind dealing with it through displacement heroes like vengeful. Nether swap to save the right hero then most of the time you can turn the fight.
I often run shadow demon for disruption as well, i find if I'm not against lina or lesh disruption does a good job saving heroes from good initiations.
Second way for supports to deal with it is heals like omni and dazzle. increased sustain from shadow wave and omni heal helps, but repel or grave really gets heroes through the burst.
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How does octarine core interact with decay? I just had a game where I got really farmed on Undying and I bought a halberd and aghs as my 3rd and 4th items but I'm wondering if octarine might have been a better choice due to huge synergy with decay/soul rip/atos/shiva. Does it spellvamp JUST the direct damage, or the total damage caused by the damage + str steal, and is the healing applied before or after the str steal?
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On June 27 2015 14:17 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 00:16 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 26 2015 20:05 VelJa wrote:On June 26 2015 18:07 xAdra wrote:
Are there any heroes (singular/hero pair) that is a good counterpick to the "AoE" strat? Like the kind that incorporates enigma/tidehunter (epic aoe lockdown) plus earthshaker along with a meepo/gyro/qop (epic aoe nukes) to basically win every teamfight handily.
I know you can splitpush this but I just played a game where the carry was meepo which meant I couldnt split push in peace.
yeah : SILENCER. says the silenced man haha rubick is a good pick too. hes obviously not the hero to 1v5 the game for you but it should be obvious what he can potentially bring to your team fight. imagine a mid rubick who manages to get a blink/force/aghanims against the lineup you talked about. as long as the rubick is quick, the possibilities are endless lol Personally I don't mind dealing with it through displacement heroes like vengeful. Nether swap to save the right hero then most of the time you can turn the fight. I often run shadow demon for disruption as well, i find if I'm not against lina or lesh disruption does a good job saving heroes from good initiations. Second way for supports to deal with it is heals like omni and dazzle. increased sustain from shadow wave and omni heal helps, but repel or grave really gets heroes through the burst.
vs and shadow demon are good vs teams that have good single target initiations. they arent the go to supports against team fight heavy lineups.
vs is an exception when vsing an enigma, but even then enigma would have to be the only hero with a huge teamfight spell for vs to make a big difference.
against a lineup that has multiple huge aoe spells (like op said, tide+es or enig+es), vs and sd run into some more trouble.
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What separates a good Zeus players from the rest? (Alternatively, is Zeus a high skill-cap hero?)
To my newb eyes, it's as simple as maintaining your distance and be quick with W (to keep sight). What else is there?
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a lot of what separates a top zeus from the rest probably carries across most heroes: awareness, knowing where it's safe to farm, knowing when to farm vs when to stand behind cores / group up, etc etc etc. i don't think there are any especially difficult mechanical maneuvers; it's all just general gameplay stuff. one thing that synd brought up in a cast once is that q w r does more damage than w q r due to static field doing more if you do less damage with your first spell. that's not really a huge thing though, i don't think.
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And ulti at the start of the fight for vision/disabling daggers for 3 seconds, it's just so frsutrating to not have vision at the start of the fight when you have a zeus on your team.
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A really bad Zeus uses his ultimate to KS. Has no idea about when he should deward.
A good Zeus will help his team obtain vision of all enemies before a major fight, causing enemies to go in with a deficit while also disabling any blink daggers. A good Zeus is also able to keep an appropriate distance in fights such that his frequent spells and static field prevent the enemy from ever blinking (a huge problem for Axe, Centaur, Sand King, any hero that wants to keep blinking around). A good Zeus will (smartly) check for nearby wards.
That's what I picked up as someone who never plays Zeus  Among all 110(?) heroes I wouldn't call him very high skill-cap though. Probably in the easiest 25% even; to be honest all the above mentioned traits that a good Zeus should have are mechanics that any high level player should have, if you can play Zeus well you probably have solid grounding to go learn some other heroes.
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A good Zeus can also lasthit/ denie without spells and I'd consider Zeus's atk animation one of the harder to master ^^
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United States47024 Posts
On June 28 2015 09:18 xAdra wrote:
A really bad Zeus uses his ultimate to KS.
Using Zeus ult to KS actually results in higher net XP/gold gained for the team due to how assist gold is distributed (an assisting hero more than 1300 range away doesn't get any gold/XP while a killer more than 1300 range away does, so using a global like Sunstrike or Thundergod's to get a kill results in extra total gold for the additional "contributing" hero), and is not intrinsically bad depending on the situation.
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Presumably he's talking about the classic pub zeus move in 5v5s, which is to hold the ulti until after the teamfight is decided, and then use it to kill a 100hp hero that everyone is focusing.
Global gank support is, obviously, one of the strengths of the hero and I doubt many people mind in that instance.
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On June 28 2015 10:07 njt7 wrote:
A good Zeus can also lasthit/ denie without spells and I'd consider Zeus's atk animation one of the harder to master ^^
zeus can't actually use autos to last hit against most mid laners without putting himself at risk of dying. maybe a few here and there, but it's definitely standard at the top level to use q to last hit for safety reasons
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also always ground target ur w
it gives vision and procs stuff like razor passive if u target directly
plus ground target avoids getting fogged
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United States47024 Posts
On June 28 2015 10:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2015 10:07 njt7 wrote:
A good Zeus can also lasthit/ denie without spells and I'd consider Zeus's atk animation one of the harder to master ^^ zeus can't actually use autos to last hit against most mid laners without putting himself at risk of dying. maybe a few here and there, but it's definitely standard at the top level to use q to last hit for safety reasons
When you're up against a strong mid laner, being able to get those "few here and there" is the difference between getting caught with no mana 100 gold short of your Bottle, and being able to get Bottle out with mana to spare and stabilize.
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when i see fata and synd zeus they often start just 1 or 2 clarities so that the bottle is pretty much guaranteed, then just bottle crow
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EPT
