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Once you have phase+euls, which is core for most scenarios, you should be looking at what the enemy team excels at, and picking items to help counter that.
Do they have a bunch of melee, fast, physical heroes? Shivas is good at negating damage and kiting.
Are they able to just blow you up with magic damage or magic amplification? A heart is a ton of raw HP, which helps you survive to come into and out of a fight often
Is all of their gold piled into one hero, like dusa or naga? Sheepstick is a great disable and poor supports won't try to engage you with ult up.
Are all their carries running at 522? Atos or force staff is a good pick up to help chase or run away while your ult kills them.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On April 14 2015 01:38 goody153 wrote:
ty for the answers .. i need more clarity on the item choices though i usually have no idea what to buy after euls that i just end up buying drums and fighting alot
My reasons for picking DP is pretty much not for the later ult spam but rather the synergy between high ms+euls+ low cd nuke + low cd silence .. i'm trying to abuse the fact that the hero pretty much kites and fucks up anything that does not have bkb when euls is purchased. I think the hero is super good midgame like silence and nuke are super good as long as you time it. But i'm still having problems about it (i'm not mu ;_; )
I think roygbiv covered almost everything, but im also a fan of travels instead of phase in certain games bc you can pretty effectively push in unoccupied lanes. you said you like the low cd nuke, so I figured I'd throw that out there. but its a pretty hefty investment so you have to pick and choose when you opt for it.
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On April 14 2015 03:22 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 01:38 goody153 wrote:
ty for the answers .. i need more clarity on the item choices though i usually have no idea what to buy after euls that i just end up buying drums and fighting alot
My reasons for picking DP is pretty much not for the later ult spam but rather the synergy between high ms+euls+ low cd nuke + low cd silence .. i'm trying to abuse the fact that the hero pretty much kites and fucks up anything that does not have bkb when euls is purchased. I think the hero is super good midgame like silence and nuke are super good as long as you time it. But i'm still having problems about it (i'm not mu ;_; ) I think roygbiv covered almost everything, but im also a fan of travels instead of phase in certain games bc you can pretty effectively push in unoccupied lanes. you said you like the low cd nuke, so I figured I'd throw that out there. but its a pretty hefty investment so you have to pick and choose when you opt for it.
Yeah i think i can go pick lina for the same purpose but i really like DP. Idk
On April 14 2015 01:48 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
Once you have phase+euls, which is core for most scenarios, you should be looking at what the enemy team excels at, and picking items to help counter that.
Do they have a bunch of melee, fast, physical heroes? Shivas is good at negating damage and kiting.
Are they able to just blow you up with magic damage or magic amplification? A heart is a ton of raw HP, which helps you survive to come into and out of a fight often
Is all of their gold piled into one hero, like dusa or naga? Sheepstick is a great disable and poor supports won't try to engage you with ult up.
Are all their carries running at 522? Atos or force staff is a good pick up to help chase or run away while your ult kills them.
this covers much thanks
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After having played mostly carry for the last year and a half I'm looking to brush up by solo queue support skills. Any recommendations for players to watch (replays/streams)?
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On April 14 2015 01:48 eieio wrote:anyone know what the "rare item" he used to drop was? I don't remember him dropping anything before cheese was added o.o
From what I can gather, it was an item that gave +91 movespeed and true-sight like gem, except it didn't drop on death. Sounds IMBA. Never actually seen it.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On April 14 2015 08:16 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
After having played mostly carry for the last year and a half I'm looking to brush up by solo queue support skills. Any recommendations for players to watch (replays/streams)?
even professional players that play the 5 position don't really support in their pubs. if you want to learn, go to the front page and pick a game that's just starting...take a note of the lanes, their starting items, and what they are doing. it's especially important to note their position around xx:40-45 because that is when they will be deciding to stack, secure a rune, etc. best part about front page games is that you can put them down after about 15 minutes when you will likely gain less insight bc they game turned into a microcosm due to the small things that occurred earlier on if you so choose.
hope that helps!
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Hey guys,
How do you feel about a Rod of Atos on Abaddon vs TA, PA, Ursa, Ogre Magi, Enchantress?
Other items were Tranquils, Soul Ring, Mek, Blademail
My team was Troll, Lion, Silencer, Aba, Clinkz
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Well did Ursa or TA have blink? If they did I think that the Atos doesn't do much compared to a Euls. Here's why:
1) TA/Ursa blink in
2) TA/Ursa use slow
3) Support catches up, uses more slow/stun
4) The poor poor hero who is getting caught out dies because they can't move at all and are getting right clicked for 5 million damage.
This does assume that TA and or Ursa have blinks. In fact if either of them have a blink, 2.5s of them not being able to do anything is way, way better than sometimes being able to slow down one of them. Plus Euls can be used for ganks, cancelling TPs, (something Abbadon lacks in his tool-kit) and gives you +40 MS because why not.
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If you wanted another slow then a shiva's gaurd would be more logical that late in the game, Judging by the drafts, if I had any gold to spend that late in the game as a support abbadon, i think i would buy a forcestaff, vlads and/or the aghs septer after those items.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On April 14 2015 11:51 DinoMight wrote:
Hey guys,
How do you feel about a Rod of Atos on Abaddon vs TA, PA, Ursa, Ogre Magi, Enchantress?
Other items were Tranquils, Soul Ring, Mek, Blademail
My team was Troll, Lion, Silencer, Aba, Clinkz
let's start here: what was your reasoning for the atos?
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Euls or Shivas and even Aghs if you were getting focused. 
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On April 14 2015 20:14 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 11:51 DinoMight wrote:
Hey guys,
How do you feel about a Rod of Atos on Abaddon vs TA, PA, Ursa, Ogre Magi, Enchantress?
Other items were Tranquils, Soul Ring, Mek, Blademail
My team was Troll, Lion, Silencer, Aba, Clinkz let's start here: what was your reasoning for the atos?
Reasoning for the Atos:
We were doing okay in team fights but TA/PA kept getting away and Ursa would get kills just because my squishy teammates couldn't get away from him. So the cripple basically ensured a kill on PA/TA every time instead of just having them escape and it prevented Ursa from getting a few kills.
Also, Ursa would get hexed a lot as soon as he blinked in. So when he unhexed I'd hit him with the rod and he became completely useless.
I didn't die much but it was useful if one of my teammates needed to retreat from a fight. I'd shield and heal them, cripple whoever was chasing and get in the way until they escaped.
Also I was carrying around a casual vit booster for extra HP and rod builds from that.
So... it worked fine for that game. But my question is was that the ideal choice vs that team (given that I was a poor ass support for most of the game and more expensive items were hard to get).
I feel like euls in that situation is okay but you can't hit them during it. The thing I like about Rod is that while they are slowed I can hit them and my passive slows them even more.
Thoughts? Is that reasonable?
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United States47024 Posts
It's very hard to answer that without a sense of how the game went as a whole. Shiva's is a better item as a whole, but Atos' main strength is that it's useful in multiples once BKB durations are low.
As an aside, I think Blademail is really hard to use properly on Abaddon because of the way damage prevention works with it--because Aphotic Shield and Borrowed Time count as "damage prevented" in DotA 2, attacks into either with Blademail active cause zero damage to be reflected. It's really not worth it most of the time because of that, IMO.
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SoCal8933 Posts
yeah that's why I was asking why dino got it. because you cant say an item is good or bad on a hero unless you know what happened in the game.
I wouldn't say it was a terrible choice given the situation you outlined..force staff is also good for mobility for your team. and their itemization is important too!
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On April 15 2015 01:07 TheYango wrote:
It's very hard to answer that without a sense of how the game went as a whole. Shiva's is a better item as a whole, but Atos' main strength is that it's useful in multiples once BKB durations are low.
As an aside, I think Blademail is really hard to use properly on Abaddon because of the way damage prevention works with it--because Aphotic Shield and Borrowed Time count as "damage prevented" in DotA 2, attacks into either with Blademail active cause zero damage to be reflected. It's really not worth it most of the time because of that, IMO.
The low cooldown is nice.
BM is tricky but if you're only shielding your allies it's a lot more straightforward. As a healer/support/tank I'm just trying to stay alive as long as possible and if a PA is going to crit herself for 900 damage by attacking me then she will stay the fuck away, which lets me Slow, Shield, Heal, Mek, etc.
Just curious... how is support Aba played on a pro level? I don't really follow pro Dota at all (more into SC2). As a Tank/Healer he seems good because he can actually last long enough to use his spells / be effective.
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Another question.
This is a really complicated one so I know there is no right answer but perhaps explain how you'd go about figuring this out.
What's the best way to determine the order to kill people in in team fights? Are there any heroes that you would prioritize no matter what? Or is it almost entirely situational? What's your thought process when discussing with your teammates?
I'm only at 2.2k and people at my MMR tend to just run into team fights and spam all their abilities hoping that when the dust settles there are more of us left over than them. But I always try to get a good plan going into a fight. Something like, if we can pick off the Omniknight first while he's hexed, the fight will be a lot easier for us.
Of course, ideally you'd like to kill of the guys with the highest DPS to health ratio, but with life gain and effects like Dazzle's shallow grave making it literally impossible to kill someone, things get complicated.
Thoughts?
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simply pressing all ur buttons works to at least 4k
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On April 15 2015 01:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
simply pressing all ur buttons works to at least 4k
Lol. This is the answer I was afraid of.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean it's true.
Trying to coordinate anything beyond that with sub-4k players is actually pretty pointless, because usually someone holding spells for a specific target means they die with not all of their buttons being pressed because they don't have the situational awareness to decide when they should just use their spells rather than saving them because the fight's not going to play out in a way where that makes sense.
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On April 15 2015 01:50 DinoMight wrote:
Another question.
This is a really complicated one so I know there is no right answer but perhaps explain how you'd go about figuring this out.
What's the best way to determine the order to kill people in in team fights? Are there any heroes that you would prioritize no matter what? Or is it almost entirely situational? What's your thought process when discussing with your teammates?
I'm only at 2.2k and people at my MMR tend to just run into team fights and spam all their abilities hoping that when the dust settles there are more of us left over than them. But I always try to get a good plan going into a fight. Something like, if we can pick off the Omniknight first while he's hexed, the fight will be a lot easier for us.
Of course, ideally you'd like to kill of the guys with the highest DPS to health ratio, but with life gain and effects like Dazzle's shallow grave making it literally impossible to kill someone, things get complicated.
Thoughts?
That's a very not-simple question that pros and teams don't agree on either.. if I were you, I would pick your favorite player (or player you think is the best) and watch a lot of his match replays (not pubs).
In most cases, you just go for whoever is closest/out of position, or whoever your team is going for.
Some heroes, like Panda or QoP, are usually *supposed* to go for the backline. i.e., blink and insta-gib the weak supports (like AA, lina)
Some heroes, like Clock or Axe, are supposed to disrupt the opposing carry (such as naix) and make it hard for the other team to fight..
If you have important cc's, such as sheepstick, you usually have an idea, before the fight, who you plan on insta-hexing...
it's complicated, hope that gives you some stuff to think about
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EPT
