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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On February 16 2015 05:32 zdarr wrote: What is incredibly retarded is people who can't wait 10 mins to play, at this point gaming is becoming a drug for some of you Nothing remotely new about this. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 16 2015 05:32 zdarr wrote: What is incredibly retarded is people who can't wait 10 mins to play, at this point gaming is becoming a drug for some of you some people dont have loads of free time and just want that 1 game a day to give them some relief by having some fun unrelated to the real world. 10 minute wait is too long imo. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
can you land it vs bkb? i dont think you can anything else it doesnt hit? (probably hits rana, easily hits slark) | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On February 16 2015 08:42 FFGenerations wrote: whats the timing to land euls stun with lina on jug? i had down perfectly my first few games but suddenly cant land it at all and lost confidence.... is there a way to practice it? Bots are always a good way to practice. One thing I can recommend for really finely-timed stuff is to copy what the FGC does: when there is a pause in action - say, a wake-up, similar to waiting out a Euls - and they need to time something for precisely its end they will often take a couple of pacing actions that take up just the right amount of time. This is harder in Dota than in fighting games because you don't have direct parallels to, say, pressing one punch and one kick and together they give you just the right pause. But you can come close with something like, say, pacing back and forth over a short but consistent distance. This of course is subject to inaccuracies with Lina specifically because she has varying walking speeds. In any case you may or may not find this general technique helpful, either with the Lina stun or in something else in Dota, but it will be up to you to figure out if there's a place it can help and what specific actions will give the timing you need. [e] Oh I didn't read correctly...I don't think there's anyway to stop a good jug from spinning out, like most of these combos. Whoops. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
put it this way - you can spin/bkb out of euls into ice path against jakiro | ||
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l3loodraven
2753 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 16 2015 11:09 Sbrubbles wrote: I'm not sure if euls allows the cycloned unit to precast stuff, but if it doesn't then it's theoretically possible to stun before bkb/spin is turned on Any action given during a disable is immediately buffered when the disable ends. By how this is coded in DotA 2, this even allows instant actions to intercede between directly chained disables (e.g. if you buffer BKB/Rage/Blade Fury during Nightmare, and Nightmare is ended by Mirana's Arrow, your item/spell will go off and you won't be damaged or stunned). | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
so basically the jugs i was euls stunning were just retards (or had it on cooldown) or what?? | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On February 16 2015 18:12 FFGenerations wrote: so the wiki says jug has a cast time of 0.3 but then says blade fury has an instant cast time...which is it? so basically the jugs i was euls stunning were just retards (or had it on cooldown) or what?? some abilities have their own set cast time eg. a furion casting sprout does not take the same time as a furion casting teleport this is also why despite having a 0.1s cast time (or something like that), a rubick cannot requiem or teleport instantly | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
In D1 iirc it was done by base spells with fixed properties which were instant-cast or usable during channels or whatever, except for really obvious stuff like Requiem that was coded separately. Dota 2 added a few others though, so now it's a bit confusing. On that note, can Rubick still doom instantly? Or does he take 0.5s since it was given a unique cast-time? I can't say I've noticed. | ||
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On February 16 2015 20:02 Belisarius wrote: I've often wondered exactly how that works in D2. In D1 iirc it was done by base spells with fixed properties which were instant-cast or usable during channels or whatever, except for really obvious stuff like Requiem that was coded separately. Dota 2 seems to have messed with that and now it's a bit confusing. Do all spells with individual cast-times just override the hero's cast time? Also Rubick can still doom instantly, can't he? Or does he take 0.5s since it was given a unique cast-time? I can't say I've noticed. Actually having checked the wiki, it seems rubick has instant cast on any stolen spell apart from assassinate, requiem, furion tp, poof, stasis trap and remote mines, so they don't even use his 0.1s cast time I guess this means that he can still doom instantly and yeah i guess spells with their own cast times override the hero's cast time | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
- Hex - Wind Walk - Fan of Knives Hex is self-explanatory and covers Lion and Rhasta's Hexes. Likewise, Wind Walks are easy to identify because they're self-cast invisibility+phasing. The spells covered by Fan of Knives are harder to remember, but in DotA 2, there are two questions you have to ask yourself: 1) Does the spell have a target? If yes, it's not based on Fan of Knives 2) Does the spell interrupt my movement if I cast it while moving? If no, it's based on Fan of Knives In order to know the latter, you unfortunately have to have played the hero to have an idea, but otherwise, this covers the relevant spells. On February 17 2015 03:47 FHDH wrote: As a native D2 player I can tell you that thinking in D1 terms in regards to cast times is going to fuck you up. Just think of every spell having its own cast point. Sometimes all the spells have the same cast point on a hero but I don't even know how common that is any more, and IceFrog has shown plenty of willingness to make balance adjustments around changing the cast point of individual skills on heroes. The vast majority of spells still use the hero's cast point. It's still very much the rule rather than the exception. EDIT: A little clarification on the mechanics in question (this is going to get very jargon-y): + Show Spoiler + First, there are two relevant definitions: Cast Point: This property is HERO SPECIFIC. This represents the hero's built in animation wind-up before casting any spell. Cast Time: This property is SPELL SPECIFIC. This represents the spell's own time required before it's effect goes off. In the general case, the actual time to cast a spell is Cast Point + Cast Time. However, for most spells, cast time is 0, so only the Cast Point is used. In the Warcraft 3 engine, there are 3 relevant classes of spells that ignore the hero's cast point: - Hex - Fan of Knives - Wind Walk - Blink Hex, Wind Walk, and Fan of Knives also have no cast time, Blink has a cast time that is built into the spell--0.33s for QoP's Blink, 0.4s for AM's Blink, and 3s for Furion's Teleport. Yes, Furion's Teleport is included because it's essentially a Blink with infinite range. Other spells with different casting properties still use the hero's cast point, but have a non-zero cast TIME. So even in DotA 1, spells with different casting properties are possible--Doom/Naga/Panda's changes don't have to be DotA 2 only things. Where this gets muddled is when Rubick gets involved. Originally, Rubick's stolen spells are supposed to use his cast point, but retain the cast time of the spells in question--this actually makes a lot of sense. The problem is that Valve has muddled the cast point/time concepts into a single number, and has essentially handled all the other spells as hard-coded exceptions using the DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_NORMAL_WHEN_STOLEN flag (seemingly an attempt to simplify, but makes things more complicated to remember). As such, there are a ton of spells that don't actually respect this behavior properly, which is why stuff like both Blinks, Primal Split, and Doom have the wrong cast time when stolen by Rubick now. For the most part, this difference in behavior makes Rubick stronger in DotA 2 than DotA 1. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Anti-Mage Batrider Beastmaster Bloodseeker Bounty Hunter Brewmaster Bristleback Broodmother Clinkz Doom Drow Ranger Earthshaker Leshrac Lifestealer Lion Lone Druid Lycan Meepo Mirana Naga Siren Necrophos Nyx Assassin Phantom Lancer Puck Pudge Queen of Pain Razor Shadow Fiend Shadow Shaman Skywrath Mage Slardar Slark (sorta) Sniper Spirit Breaker Storm Spirit Sven Techies Templar Assassin Terrorblade Tidehunter Timbersaw Tinker Treant Protector Troll Warlord Undying (I think?) Ursa Visage Weaver Windranger Winter Wyvern Zeus I think I have that right, ignoring most toggles. Now, many of these differences are perfectly explained by the above post. After all these cast points originated in Dota1 which had significant technical limitations. But many of them are the result of balance changes now that Icefrog can use cast points as a balance lever. So yes, if you think of cast points as married to either the hero or the spell, you're going to be right like 90% of the time at least, but you will be wrong some times and you will be increasingly wrong over time as cast points are tweaked for balancing purposes over the course of future patches. [e] Yango edited because he is a bastard and knows a lot more than me. Still I think this was useful. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:45 TheYango wrote: I mean, the bulk of that list is Fan of Knives, lol. You trim down 90% of that list by not memorizing the Fan of Knives spells and just using the 2-part rule I gave for identifying Fan of Knives-based spells. Right, I noted that. And I think that's a fine way to think of it for a beginning player, all I am saying is that there are exceptions based on Dota2 balance changes and there will be more in the future. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
od can w before stun? | ||
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