EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1007
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 23 2014 04:39 Buckyman wrote: Is the dark blot on the ground from Shadow Amulet visible to both teams? no, if you're referring to when the amulet has actually gone off. If you're referring to while it's fading I'm not completely sure because the item is so rare. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On December 23 2014 09:01 Buckyman wrote: It seems to be a replay specific thing then; watching an enemy use it from player perspective mode shows the blot but not the hero. Yeah there are still a lot of bugs in player perspective mode, they only JUST fixed it so player visibility itself matched that of the player from whose perspective you are watching. Despite patch notes, pings and map drawings don't seem to fully work either. | ||
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Catch
United States616 Posts
I'm going to put my train of thought in spoilers so I can verify if my train of thought is correct, so anyone who is willing to help can just say yes that's right, and so you can see that I've been trying to do some homework on this. 1. When do you jungle and when do you offlane? + Show Spoiler + I believe you offlane when there is a melee carry in that lane, and the supports that are there would have a hard time killing you with firefly. Jungle seems to be slower, but you aren't a tanky hero and letting a more tanky offlaner handle that is a better use of resources. Or is it basically just farm priority? 2a. When do you go tranquils vs BoT? + Show Spoiler + Tranquils is for early game passivity, while BoT is for a more aggressive/ganking player and lineup. 2b. Why does Bone7 normally go boots first into travels then blink dagger and is it the best build? + Show Spoiler + He wants to be aggressive. At that stage, it would allow you to control the map, TP to any fights, and initiate on most heroes based on move speed alone. Blink dagger third would allow you to have enough tankiness to survive any burst from the extra levels and isn't necessary thanks to the MS with travels earlier. 3. When to go basilius over bottle? + Show Spoiler + Always go basilius if you already have someone other than the mid who is going bottle and benefits from it over you? I've seen Aui go basilius over bottle in a few of his games. 4.. When should you get flamebreak? + Show Spoiler + This is one I'm completely lost at. I've looked at pro games, games from DotaFlame, and just general builds, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. The same players even get it at different levels in different games. My gut feeling is to grab it at 8 after maxing firefly. Thanks for your help in advance! I know it's a ton of questions. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On December 23 2014 16:59 Catch wrote: A bunch of Batrider questions. I'm going to put my train of thought in spoilers so I can verify if my train of thought is correct, so anyone who is willing to help can just say yes that's right, and so you can see that I've been trying to do some homework on this. 1. When do you jungle and when do you offlane? + Show Spoiler + I believe you offlane when there is a melee carry in that lane, and the supports that are there would have a hard time killing you with firefly. Jungle seems to be slower, but you aren't a tanky hero and letting a more tanky offlaner handle that is a better use of resources. Or is it basically just farm priority? 2a. When do you go tranquils vs BoT? + Show Spoiler + Tranquils is for early game passivity, while BoT is for a more aggressive/ganking player and lineup. 2b. Why does Bone7 normally go boots first into travels then blink dagger and is it the best build? + Show Spoiler + He wants to be aggressive. At that stage, it would allow you to control the map, TP to any fights, and initiate on most heroes based on move speed alone. Blink dagger third would allow you to have enough tankiness to survive any burst from the extra levels and isn't necessary thanks to the MS with travels earlier. 3. When to go basilius over bottle? + Show Spoiler + Always go basilius if you already have someone other than the mid who is going bottle and benefits from it over you? I've seen Aui go basilius over bottle in a few of his games. 4.. When should you get flamebreak? + Show Spoiler + This is one I'm completely lost at. I've looked at pro games, games from DotaFlame, and just general builds, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. The same players even get it at different levels in different games. My gut feeling is to grab it at 8 after maxing firefly. Thanks for your help in advance! I know it's a ton of questions. im just gonna go ahead and tell u the answer to most of these is just gut feeling / intuition | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
I don't play batrider so I can't answer the question beyond knowing that it will vary from game to game based on hero composition, and that generally you can look at professional players' games to see what they do and try to work out their decision-making. Of course, pros won't all be consistently equal on all of these decisions but it can give you something to work from. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
Thanks | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On December 23 2014 20:39 icystorage wrote: www.datdota.com thanks. I was thinking dotabuff, dotaflame and a thousando others but those don't have good enough filters. And that means none of the newly introduced heroes have been picked yet. | ||
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
Is anyone else having serious problems connecting to games since the latest patch? I can't even get past the loading screen anymore because I get "unable to establish connection to the server". Usually I get 4-5 disconnects before I successfully connect to a game. I've tried adding an exception in the firewall and forwarding ports. Any other ideas? | ||
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Jisira
470 Posts
I generally always go Bottle, moreso Bottle or Bottle + Basi than only Basi (but I go Bottle on most heroes) because Basi alone doesn't sustain you a whole lot (double RoP start is good though) plus that it gives the team a Basi. Bone7 uses BoTs for eating the enemy jungle away. That way he doesn't leach farm and still gets a decent Blink most games. Also, 100 movement speed and one-time-cost TPs. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 23 2014 19:57 Birdie wrote: That's a really bollocksy answer, that may work for someone with a lot of experience and history in the game because then your intuition comes from experience, but that doesn't work for people wanting to learn more. I don't play batrider so I can't answer the question beyond knowing that it will vary from game to game based on hero composition, and that generally you can look at professional players' games to see what they do and try to work out their decision-making. Of course, pros won't all be consistently equal on all of these decisions but it can give you something to work from. Its kind of true though, cuz a lot of these things are subject to a lot of minutiae that you can't just flowchart out. Like BoTs vs. Tranquils vs. Brown Boots--BoTs are always good to have, it's just a matter of how much it delays everything else you get and whether that's worth it. Like you can't flowchart that down to "if you can't have it by XYZ time, don't get it"--it depends on the teams, everyone else's relative development, etc. You just have to play with it and get a feel for when you can get away with it. On December 23 2014 23:18 Jisira wrote: Batrider is pretty much to individual judgement but I generally end up at 2-0-3-1 or 1-1-3-1 at 6, and 2-2-4-1 or 1-3-4-1 at 9 depending on the laning stage. Flamebreak is the only bust Bat has and also counteracts clusterfuck, I think that it is totally value to max second in most cases. Napalm max is also fine a lot of the time, it kind of just depends. Like organized games need the earlier Flamebreak max because organized teamfighting happens way earlier, but in pubs you sometimes get those farmy/solo-kill kind of games where 4-1-4 by 11 is going to be better because Flamebreak is the best fighting skill but the worst farm/gank/solo-kill skill. | ||
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Catch
United States616 Posts
On December 23 2014 17:34 ChunderBoy wrote: im just gonna go ahead and tell u the answer to most of these is just gut feeling / intuition That was not very helpful. Birdie wrote: That's a really bollocksy answer, that may work for someone with a lot of experience and history in the game because then your intuition comes from experience, but that doesn't work for people wanting to learn more. I don't play batrider so I can't answer the question beyond knowing that it will vary from game to game based on hero composition, and that generally you can look at professional players' games to see what they do and try to work out their decision-making. Of course, pros won't all be consistently equal on all of these decisions but it can give you something to work from. Yeah, I've been trying to figure that out based on watching different pros play, but it's kind of hard to figure out why they go different builds without hearing their train of thought. I understand enough to see some of their decision making (at least what I think it is) but not all of it. Jisira wrote: Batrider is pretty much to individual judgement but I generally end up at 2-0-3-1 or 1-1-3-1 at 6, and 2-2-4-1 or 1-3-4-1 at 9 depending on the laning stage. Flamebreak is the only bust Bat has and also counteracts clusterfuck, I think that it is totally value to max second in most cases. I generally always go Bottle, moreso Bottle or Bottle + Basi than only Basi (but I go Bottle on most heroes) because Basi alone doesn't sustain you a whole lot (double RoP start is good though) plus that it gives the team a Basi. Bone7 uses BoTs for eating the enemy jungle away. That way he doesn't leach farm and still gets a decent Blink most games. Also, 100 movement speed and one-time-cost TPs. So essentially, get flamebreak sooner you need crowd control. Got it. So really, the only time I'd go basi is if I've had a good early start (first blood or something), my team really benefits from a basilius. The double RoP vs boots start is also a determining factor. Totally understand the BoTs pickup at this point. If I can farm the enemy jungle relatively safely or if I'm the one who can use the jungle most efficiently in the early game, I'll go Bots. Thanks man! TheYango wrote: Its kind of true though, cuz a lot of these things are subject to a lot of minutiae that you can't just flowchart out. Like BoTs vs. Tranquils vs. Brown Boots--BoTs are always good to have, it's just a matter of how much it delays everything else you get and whether that's worth it. Like you can't flowchart that down to "if you can't have it by XYZ time, don't get it"--it depends on the teams, everyone else's relative development, etc. You just have to play with it and get a feel for when you can get away with it. ----- Napalm max is also fine a lot of the time, it kind of just depends. Like organized games need the earlier Flamebreak max because organized teamfighting happens way earlier, but in pubs you sometimes get those farmy/solo-kill kind of games where 4-1-4 by 11 is going to be better because Flamebreak is the best fighting skill but the worst farm/gank/solo-kill skill. I'm not trying to flowchart things out, just get a general understanding of why that item was picked up so that I can tell when I should get that item. Intuition/Gut feeling doesn't really give a good foundation of decision-making in the game and doesn't really help. Yeah, I understand it depends on team compositions, how your laning stage is going, etc, but what situations can I say "okay, the reason this item was picked up because Y and Z." That is helpful. Maybe I didn't phrase the questions right for that though, who knows. Thanks for your input as well. | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
On December 23 2014 16:59 Catch wrote: A bunch of Batrider questions. I'm going to put my train of thought in spoilers so I can verify if my train of thought is correct, so anyone who is willing to help can just say yes that's right, and so you can see that I've been trying to do some homework on this. 1. When do you jungle and when do you offlane? + Show Spoiler + I believe you offlane when there is a melee carry in that lane, and the supports that are there would have a hard time killing you with firefly. Jungle seems to be slower, but you aren't a tanky hero and letting a more tanky offlaner handle that is a better use of resources. Or is it basically just farm priority? 2a. When do you go tranquils vs BoT? + Show Spoiler + Tranquils is for early game passivity, while BoT is for a more aggressive/ganking player and lineup. 2b. Why does Bone7 normally go boots first into travels then blink dagger and is it the best build? + Show Spoiler + He wants to be aggressive. At that stage, it would allow you to control the map, TP to any fights, and initiate on most heroes based on move speed alone. Blink dagger third would allow you to have enough tankiness to survive any burst from the extra levels and isn't necessary thanks to the MS with travels earlier. 3. When to go basilius over bottle? + Show Spoiler + Always go basilius if you already have someone other than the mid who is going bottle and benefits from it over you? I've seen Aui go basilius over bottle in a few of his games. 4.. When should you get flamebreak? + Show Spoiler + This is one I'm completely lost at. I've looked at pro games, games from DotaFlame, and just general builds, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. The same players even get it at different levels in different games. My gut feeling is to grab it at 8 after maxing firefly. Thanks for your help in advance! I know it's a ton of questions. 1. You farm faster in the jungle, at the cost of not applying pressure to the offlane. This gives the opponent safelane free farm and the supports free rein. The trade-off used to be worth it because batrider could pull the middle radiant lane or dire hard safelane, before the jungle/creep aggro duration changes. These days usually you start in the offlane and a support will stack for you. 2. Weird player preferences. Tranquils give good move speed and sustain, but honestly batrider doesn't _need_ this item, especially if you've purchased a bottle. 2b. bone7 plays very weird. If you watched yyf at the height of batriders strength, the batrider MO is to blink lasso force staff someone away from his team and insta-gib. bone7 often uses lasso more like a teamfight CC. in fact a lot of players have adopted this style and you'll blink into travels now. I don't personally like it. 3. dno ask aui and lmk 4. player preference. I prefer 2-0-2 into 2-4-2. If you look at the stats, flamebreak is a nice nuke with decent cooldown. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
But it's also true. You're trying to cheat the learning process and use your conscious brain to logically analyze something that (in general) is too complex to accurately do so, hence why all good players use their subconscious. Pro players don't have some flowchart they consult, they just have a large amount of accumulated patterns of high level play. These aren't the most difficult questions, so I can tell you accurate answers to that for specific situations but cannot tell you for all likely situations and me telling you will not help you properly analyze those situations because you still wouldn't have the patterns. Better that you focus on absorbing patterns of 'this worked in this situation so...' and examine postgame your ability to predict which build is the best before it plays out. I will say though that bone7 is generally not someone you should be copying, with the exception of his mom/bots lategame on bat (in games where you dont need bkb). For Batrider, Rabbit and Ice3 are the best. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On December 24 2014 07:36 Ver wrote: But it's also true. You're trying to cheat the learning process and use your conscious brain to logically analyze something that (in general) is too complex to accurately do so, hence why all good players use their subconscious. Pro players don't have some flowchart they consult, they just have a large amount of accumulated patterns of high level play. These aren't the most difficult questions, so I can tell you accurate answers to that for specific situations but cannot tell you for all likely situations and me telling you will not help you properly analyze those situations because you still wouldn't have the patterns. Better that you focus on absorbing patterns of 'this worked in this situation so...' and examine postgame your ability to predict which build is the best before it plays out. I will say though that bone7 is generally not someone you should be copying, with the exception of his mom/bots lategame on bat (in games where you dont need bkb). For Batrider, Rabbit and Ice3 are the best. Yes and no. I mean someone asked a somewhat similar question about when to use big nukes earlier, and I responded similarly, but with factors to consider. Don't mistake rapid synthesis with something mystical. There are reasons experienced players make certain choices in games. Asking what those reasons might be is reasonable. | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
On December 23 2014 03:53 Recoil wrote: I'm only 2.5k MMR still have a lot to learn about executing optimally in engagements. I play a bit of Lion and this question always comes to mind with him and any other heros with a big Nuke. Is it better to use Finger (or other big nuke) on a hero who is clearly about to about to be killed or should it be used on a tankier hero to get them down quicker? Or is it purely a decision of the value of the hero: use on a carry before a support. IN dota, as in life, sometimes you should ask yourself what your raison d'etre is. Speaking generally, burst heroes > high dps low hp heroes > low dps tanks > burst heroes. Don't save your ult. Use it on the target your team is trying to kill, and use it early so you get full value. It's usually more about who was out of position and how the battle plays out, rather than which specific hero you have to use it on. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 24 2014 07:40 FHDH wrote: Yes and no. I mean someone asked a somewhat similar question about when to use big nukes earlier, and I responded similarly, but with factors to consider. Don't mistake rapid synthesis with something mystical. There are reasons experienced players make certain choices in games. Asking what those reasons might be is reasonable. The thing is, there is a lot of danger in a player learning in this way by just being taught certain "right" and "wrong" way to do things. The way DotA works is that even the "wrong" things have value, and they're only wrong based on a particular understanding of the game that may change. Even experiencing these "bad" things like no-Raze SF, Dagon TB, etc. still have value to you as a student of the game--hell, most of the good players that started in DotA 1 started out doing all these "bad" things at some point or another. If you're interested in understanding the thought process that a good player makes, being told how that process works in isolated, specific instances is exactly how NOT to learn that. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I swear it used to cancel the whole spell. Maybe I'm insane. Is that a buff I've missed? | ||
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